Where's the concern? Where's the voice of social consciousness - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Lemonade Stand > Lemonade Stand Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-22-2004, 08:42 PM   #21
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,716
Local Time: 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
I hear people saying, "What about "Sunday Bloody Sunday"?"----Well, unless you're listening exclusively protest, 1980's new wave radio stations, you're not going to hear it.
Actually, I've heard it on classic rock stations.

Angela
__________________

Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 03:27 AM   #22
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: slovenija
Posts: 21,075
Local Time: 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
U2 has never had a hit single or even a SINGLE that dealt with anything aside from love.
New Year's Day, Pride, In God's country, Please, Walk on.

I believe all of those are not about love but are politics related. (as well as non-singles on their albums, SBS, Bullet the blue sky being the best known. Or different to love topics like One, Stuck in a moment, Where the streets have no name)

I think the current climate in US is probably against any political songs (anti-US administration) - remember what happened to Dixie Chicks and now Linda Ronstadt. There are bands who still do it - all being mentioned earlier - but the big labels aren't really interested in that.
__________________

U2girl is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 03:28 AM   #23
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by u2popmofo
I think TOO MANY artists think they have to try to write songs of this nature, and it just becomes cliche and makes the songs sound extremely dated/idiotic a few years down the road.
I agree with you, u2popmofo. I tend not to listen to much music that is overtly sociopolitical in content, as I simply find much of it cumbersome and, well, just plain bad. Certainly there have been and still are songs that are extremely good and extremely overtly political, but I don't listen to music to get my fill of political or social awareness.

And I think that if there is a single brain cell amongst all the pretty pop princes and princesses, they are doing good. That goes for most of the top of the chart acts right now. That's not really condusive for serious issues.

I was just reading an interview with Steve Kilbey today and the very subject came up. Here's a clip from the interview (HS is the inteviewer; SK is, well...kinda obvious, isn't it?):

<< HS: That makes sense, because of the timeliness of some of the lyrics. Sometimes you do make very specific cultural or political references that are definitely current in your songs --

SK: "Shock and awe", you mean.

HS: Exactly. That line in particular I thought was --

SK: I was tricked into that! I don't read the paper, I don't listen to the news, and when I was doing this preacher thing, John said to me "Why don't you throw in 'shock and awe'?" and I naively hadn't heard that phrase before. I thought "Oh, that's a good kind of Biblical thing", and I was surprised a little later on when the phrase was so in-vogue, and everyone was running around saying it.

HS: If you had known before, would you have still used it?

SK: Nah, I probably wouldn't have used it if I'd known.

HS: Why?

SK: Because it is current. Current is good when it's current, but the moment it isn't current, it's unnecessarily pinned down; you've pinned an aspect of it down, when you could have had the whole thing up there and floating forever. >>>

(if you want to read the whole thing it is from
Hybrid Magazine. Beware, it's a huge interview, they talked for two hours! Plus it has my current favourite photo of SK, and there should soon be some examples of his artwork up too. In addition to being a huge fan of his music, I'm an avid fan of SK's paintings.)

Another comment from SK I remember reading or hearing was that he didn't like to be told what to think about issues, and he didn't think the people who liked his music did either. You know, I really appreciate that. Now, I know some of his social/political views from interviews etc. (and I am interested to know them, and generally agree with them), but I am so glad he doesn't beat me over the head with those views in his songs.
indra is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 05:59 AM   #24
Refugee
 
OzAurora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: The Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,612
Local Time: 07:26 AM
Many of my favourite artists are those who have a political conscience, many of them are Australian and thankfully we have some great media outlets here like radio and TV who support the non mainstream entities. As Cass mentioned previously the Australian act 'The John Butler Trio' recently went to number one on our album chart and Mr Butler is an extrememly pro-active environmentalist and aboriginal rights exponent and many of his songs deal with these issues. So I guess in Australia, we are getting the messages, other acts who I am reminded of who are politically aware include,

Michael Franti and Spearhead
Asian Dub Foundation
Xavier Rudd

these guys may not be influencing millions, buuuuuuut at least they are making music and influencing a few and one must remember that the nature of the music/money making machine is very, very different these days than from the days in the 60s.....
OzAurora is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 07:47 AM   #25
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2girl


New Year's Day, Pride, In God's country, Please, Walk on.

I believe all of those are not about love but are politics related. (as well as non-singles on their albums, SBS, Bullet the blue sky being the best known. Or different to love topics like One, Stuck in a moment, Where the streets have no name)

I think the current climate in US is probably against any political songs (anti-US administration) - remember what happened to Dixie Chicks and now Linda Ronstadt. There are bands who still do it - all being mentioned earlier - but the big labels aren't really interested in that.
I agree 100%.

I think many educated people got what REM was talking about with It's the End of the World...and it still gets airplay.

I think the same about 'Born in the USA' although Reagan didn't get it.

I think you underestimate what U2 has done their "hits."

I can think of a lot of great bands that have done this over the years. I think the biggest issue with this are the media outlets. Today we have Clear Channel and Infinity running our airwaves, back then the DJs had a lot of say, guys who were real music lovers and in touch with what the climate was. I think if there were a band like Midnight Oil or Rage who wrote very obvious political stances then there would be absolutely no way they would get airplay...unless their political message was to vote for Clear Channel's good friend Bush.
BVS is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 07:59 AM   #26
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Saracene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia, some time after tea
Posts: 6,325
Local Time: 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
You're all listing great artists, but how many of them have consistently found success on the radio with songs that clearly express a political opinion? How many have found success illicting change or made millions reconsider their values after hearing one of their songs.
Call me cynical, but I very much doubt that any song has a power to make millions reconsider their values after hearing it. Songs often ride along a social movement, but IMO they accompany the social change rather than cause it.

Also, when a politically-charged song does connect with masses in a big way, it may not necessarily be because of its lyrics or message. People might just like it because they think that it "rocks" or that it's got a a nice melody. Nothing more.
Saracene is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 10:29 AM   #27
Refugee
 
Danospano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,415
Local Time: 03:26 PM
The majority of songs which possess a conscious express the feelings in an artistic manner, but aren't obviously accessible to the masses. This isn't a bad thing, but then what's the point? To a certain extent, why even bother making a statement of politics if hardly anyone will hear it? Are they just trying to please themselves while playing it safe? That doesn't sound like rock and roll, does it?

You all seem to resorting to naming a few examples that prove the exception, but failing to acknowledge that a few U2 songs represent the majority of music in America's present culture. U2's last album only sold 3 million copies (roughly) and that was enough to make it 24th or something on the best sellers of the year list. That's hardly the most popular music in the country, but rather a band selling to it's most dedicated base.

In response to the interview posted above concerning artist being weary of writing lyrics which may be construed as timingly, yet fleeting in coming years: Sure, for every "Subeterraen Homesick Blues" and "Rockin' in the Free World", there are "Wild Wild West" and "Right Here, Right Now"'s. That's IMO a wussy way of getting out of having an option. Those people seem to care more about their ego and less about having an educated opinion and owning up to their choices. Makes me sad.
Danospano is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 11:42 AM   #28
Blue Crack Supplier
 
IWasBored's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 36,784
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Bad Religion's albums are usually about half political/social songs also.
especially the new album. stuff like 'let them eat war'. or even on the last tour, adding 'all good soldiers' back to the setlist, introducing it as a song about iraq I, and now it's appropriate to play it again...

while i'm all for artists doing that if they have a coherent point and aren't jumping on some kind of bandwagon, i'd prefer not having someone like bono's face plastered all over my newspapers and magazines as some kind of celebrity poster child for a cause. good for them, but...

Street Dogs - Don't Preach to Me

Take your soapbox rants and your politics
Stick them where the sun don't shine
Won't solicit your advice
You're on the red carpet
Espousing your opinions
Why can't you just shut your mouth
Don't tell us how to feel

Don't preach to me, I cannot hear you
Don't preach to me, we really won't care
Don't preach to me, you're so self-righteous
You're a celebrity

They wear views on their sleeves
Thinking that it counts
But we have minds of our own
Sarandon shut your mouth
Just stick to the acting
Films and TV shows
Give us time to think for ourselves
Please give us that much

Yet these stars don't get it
We have minds of our own
We're capable of opinions
Madonna hit the road

Don't preach to me, we're not backin' you
Don't preach to me, we really won't care
Don't preach to me, you're so self-righteous
You're a celebrity
IWasBored is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 12:56 PM   #29
Blue Meth Addict
 
u2popmofo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Utah
Posts: 37,191
Local Time: 02:26 PM
IWB


Honestly, I've never really been all that interested in what ANY musician has to say about politics. Lets face it, the majority of them arent really geniuses in the field....
u2popmofo is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 01:17 PM   #30
Refugee
 
Danospano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,415
Local Time: 03:26 PM
Not geniuses in the field? What does it take to be a genius in that "field". They are artists, and therefore reflect the attitude of the populace, namely the youth. The youth apparently don't care about political issues, or civil rights, or anything aside from getting laid and satisfying their own hedonistic pleasures.

Bob Dylan didn't reflect the times with Like a Rolling Stone, All Along the Watchtower, and Hurricane?

Creedance Clearwater Revival didn't reflect the times in Fortunate Son?

Edwin Starr wasn't in tune with the times when he recorded "War, what is it good for"?

I could go on, but I think the point that artists don't deserve credit for educating the public is ludarcis
Danospano is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 03:02 PM   #31
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Elvis Presley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: eachnotesecure.com
Posts: 5,058
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by The Sage


Direct protest songs usually sound very cliched and contrived - I think subtle attacks hidden in clever lyrics work much better, as U2 have often done.
Agreed, plus they can transcent time with this approach.

And while I agree that artists should and can affect people with more of a social consciousness (due to thier stature), I dont rely on them for it.
Elvis Presley is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 05:00 PM   #32
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
The majority of songs which possess a conscious express the feelings in an artistic manner, but aren't obviously accessible to the masses. This isn't a bad thing, but then what's the point? To a certain extent, why even bother making a statement of politics if hardly anyone will hear it? Are they just trying to please themselves while playing it safe? That doesn't sound like rock and roll, does it?

In response to the interview posted above concerning artist being weary of writing lyrics which may be construed as timingly, yet fleeting in coming years: Sure, for every "Subeterraen Homesick Blues" and "Rockin' in the Free World", there are "Wild Wild West" and "Right Here, Right Now"'s. That's IMO a wussy way of getting out of having an option. Those people seem to care more about their ego and less about having an educated opinion and owning up to their choices. Makes me sad.
I'll address these two points.

First, "why even bother to make a statement of politics if hardly anyone will hear it?" Are you kidding? Do you only vote if you know everyone else is voting for the same guy? Do you only speak your mind when you have a large crowd, or do you talk to friends and family?

Second point. Perhaps I framed the Steve Kilbey inteview excerpt poorly. All modesty aside, I'm a very intelligent and well educated person, and Steve Kilbey makes me feel stupid! Don't let his comment about not reading the papers or listening to the news fool you, I've talked to the man for hours (mostly online and some in person) and he is one of the most intelligent and well informed people I have ever met. He can discuss virtually anything.

His music is more about the timeless human condition than the fickle current political climate. Nevertheless, I am quite sure his social/political leanings are quite liberal/progressive. How? I'm a fan of his music, that's how. The way he explores being human in his music is such an indication of his views that he doesn't need to be overt at all. Granted, most people won't get that, but most people don't "get" The Church either. And the beauty of it all is that 20-25 (or more) years later the songs are still fresh and meaningful (because being human doesn't really change). Although SK certainly does have a large ego, he also has educated opinions and does take responsiblity for his actions. And he respects his fans enough to allow us to do the same for ourselves.

One last point, for those that do like overtly politically music (or musicians that like to make it) -- I don't think it's so horrible that their audience is not huge. Sadly, to sell extremely well most often requires music to play to the lowest common denominator. And that is not a call to social or political action. And if I don't want someone as bright as SK telling me what to believe, I certainly don't want some manufactured pop chicklet/rapper/toy boy doing it.
indra is offline  
Old 07-23-2004, 09:32 PM   #33
Refugee
 
Danospano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,415
Local Time: 03:26 PM
When I said "what's the point" I was refering to artists would sing about issues, but are hardly audible to most ears. Example: Zack De La Roche sings about hardly anything outside of the political spectrum, but unless you read along with the lyrics, you're not going to "get" the meaning behind his powerful lyrics. I was saying what's the point of singing about this stuff, which you deeply care about, if you're going to limit its affect by screaming or slurring words.

I think it's great that people like Zack express themselves, but my criticism is in the delivery. Yes, the music reflects anger, but unless you're going to articulate your opinions, why even express them?
Danospano is offline  
Old 07-24-2004, 06:00 AM   #34
Blue Crack Supplier
 
IWasBored's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 36,784
Local Time: 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano

I think it's great that people like Zack express themselves, but my criticism is in the delivery. Yes, the music reflects anger, but unless you're going to articulate your opinions, why even express them?
this is purely your opinion. personally, i'd much rather listen to RATM and pick up their politics than say, the dixie chicks (whom i cannot stand).

Quote:
Not geniuses in the field? What does it take to be a genius in that "field". They are artists, and therefore reflect the attitude of the populace, namely the youth. The youth apparently don't care about political issues, or civil rights, or anything aside from getting laid and satisfying their own hedonistic pleasures.

Bob Dylan didn't reflect the times with Like a Rolling Stone, All Along the Watchtower, and Hurricane?

Creedance Clearwater Revival didn't reflect the times in Fortunate Son?

Edwin Starr wasn't in tune with the times when he recorded "War, what is it good for"?

I could go on, but I think the point that artists don't deserve credit for educating the public is ludarcis
the thing that's missing from praising such artists (and i agree with you on those being good examples), is that they're universal enough to be applied to situations over and over again. one might be originally written about vietnam, but you can apply it to any war, etc. they're providing a general political view, as opposed to jumping up and spouting rhetoric--which is the problem i have.
IWasBored is offline  
Old 07-24-2004, 12:49 PM   #35
Refugee
 
Danospano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,415
Local Time: 03:26 PM
Okay, I see your points. Very good.

You're right, it's personal preference, but wouldn't be all agree that the methods used by De La Roche aren't the most effective? I believe he's said a lot of clever, poignant things in his lyrics, yet wish more people would be exposed without having to read the lyrics.
Danospano is offline  
Old 07-24-2004, 01:46 PM   #36
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 03:26 PM
I understand his lyrics just about as much as I understand anyone else's. I don't think I've ever heard an artist where there wasn't some inaudible word or two.
BVS is offline  
Old 07-24-2004, 03:55 PM   #37
Blue Meth Addict
 
u2popmofo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Utah
Posts: 37,191
Local Time: 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I understand his lyrics just about as much as I understand anyone else's. I don't think I've ever heard an artist where there wasn't some inaudible word or two.
Exactly what I was thinking.
u2popmofo is offline  
Old 07-24-2004, 06:04 PM   #38
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,047
Local Time: 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
In the 1960's we had a surging revolution by way of protest rock with the likes of Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez, Pete Seager, etc.
did these artists really have the charts in a stranglehold though?

not that I care but it seems sort of what you indicate when you refer to every other artist mentioned here as an exception to thr rule

the biggest hits of the 60's were probably the beatles singing about how much she loves you yeah, yeah, yeah and the beach boys who wanted everybody to go surfin USA
__________________
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Salome is offline  
Old 07-24-2004, 09:17 PM   #39
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
HeartlandGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 7,049
Local Time: 01:26 PM
I'd like to add another dimension to this thread. It seems that while it takes a miracle to get a "protest" song played on mainstream radio, country music has gone another direction. A few weeks ago, I was driving late at night through the Texas panhandle. I was almost to my destination for the night, so rather than put in another CD, I decided to try my luck with the radio. All I could get was two country stations, and I heard song after song in support of the war. And that's fine, but these songs were more than that. I heard lyrics saying that (and I paraphrase) "If I were president, I'd make sure everyone believed in God, and those who didn't could get the hell out of the country" and lyrics saying wouldn't it be great to resurrect John Wayne and have him kick Saddam Hussein's ass. It's fine if you want to support the war, but it left a bad taste in my mouth about freedom of religion to hear those lyrics. And it's just so over the top to mention John Wayne in reference to Saddam. There were other lyrics that bothered me too, mostly in reference to how those who didn't support the war could rot in hell like the traitors they are.

So while we may not be hearing political songs on rock radio, country music has certainly embraced them, although they are supportive (in their own weird way) of our government, rather than against it as were the protest songs of the 60s.
HeartlandGirl is offline  
Old 07-25-2004, 12:57 AM   #40
ONE
love, blood, life
 
indra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 12,689
Local Time: 04:26 PM
I've heard some of that crap too, HeartlandGirl, and it is really disturbing. So much hatred in them. And so many people are just lapping that hatred up. Sick.
__________________

indra is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×