Welcome to the annual MLB Hot Stove thread

[Bluer White]

JD Drew and Carlos Lee must love to see Soriano get this kind of deal. Talk about setting the market, wow.

 

[speedracer]

JD Drew and Carlos Lee must love to see Soriano get this kind of deal. Talk about setting the market, wow.

$136m/8 years for a guy who will be 31 when next year starts. The Cubs are really going to be hurting financially 4 years from now.

 

[phanan]

$17m a year.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

He likes the leadoff spot and there is none better," Cubs manager Lou Piniella said in an interview with WGN Radio. He called Soriano "a young man who can get on base and steal some bases and hit the ball for extra base power and hit it for a homer. We are talking about the best leadoff hitter in all of baseball."

and a young man who struck out 160 times last year vs. 41 walks.

best leadoff hitter in baseball? ummmmm no. soriano may be a better player, based on the power numbers (even then it's arguable) buuuut i'll take the 7 Train, thank you very much

 

[Hewson]

At $17 million a year, he better be hitting 3rd or 4th in my lineup and producing numbers like :.300 Avg, 40 HR, 130 RBI and 100 runs just for starters.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

alfonso soriano is the king of the solo homerun.

if that's what it was gonna take to sign him, i am very glad the mets showed little to no interest.

 

[Chizip]

a young man who can get on base and steal some bases

wow there is so much wrong in this statement alone its hilarious...

young man? he is going to be 31 when the season starts. 8 year deal means he will by 39 when its all over. all contracts of this length have gone to players in their mid 20's, not when they are 31.

get on base? he's got a .325 career OBP. his OBP last year was 27th out of the top 36 OF's. for a Cubs team who's main flaw is OBP sticking him at the top of the lineup isn't the best idea.

steal some bases? ok he stole 41 bases last year. but he was also caught 17 TIMES. that's a 71% success rate. there's an old adage in baseball that if you are less than 75% then you are better off not going at all. so he's stolen base attempts were actually hurting the team more than helping.

anyway, im not saying Soriano isn't a good player who won't be able to help the Cubs, he will. but when you hand out this kind of cash you need to be sure he is one of the best players in the game, and he really isnt. a few years down the line this contract is going to be a huge albatross.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

with the money the cubs gave ramirez as well, what's left for pitching?

sure the mets won 97 games with at best mediocre starting pitching, but they had a great bullpen. and the cards won the world series with mediocre pitching... but their pitching only won them 83 games in the regular season, and then they just happened to get hot at the right time.

last i checked the cubs have zambrano and a bunch of bums.

 

[phanan]

Why would you even think of putting Soriano as you're leadoff hitter? Why?

 

[MrPryck2U]

I highly doubt that Soriano will be with the Cubs for the duration of this contract. I mean he could have a few monster seasons with the Cubbies, but when the Cubbies still keep losing look for them to trade him. This move reminds me of the A-rod deal with Texas after the 2000 season. Except, Arod is better and Texas willingly overpaid for him. Arod had three monster seasons, but the Rangers still weren't winning. So the Yankees came along and snagged him away.

 

[Hewson]

So the Yankees came along and snagged him away.

And he's brought glory back to the Bronx.

 

[speedracer]

Why would you even think of putting Soriano as you're leadoff hitter? Why?

As soon as he refines his technique for stealing first base, he'll be unstoppable.

 

[Got Philk?]

I don't know what to think of this yet.

The organization must really still believe in Mark Prior and I guess must also think Hill, Guzman(AAA) and Marshall are going to be good. I did hear they wanted to bolster their rotation though. Hmm, how will we do that?

As far as the leadoff hitter goes. Hmm, a leadoff hitter with 180 k's? We're used to that. (See Corey Patterson).

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

As soon as he refines his technique for stealing first base, he'll be unstoppable.

haha... i had some logical response to your post all types out, but then i realized you said "stealing first base."

 

[Chizip]

Howard wins the MVP

Pujols had better overall offensive numbers and his team made the playoffs, he got screwed. But I'm sure he is happy with his WS ring.

from Rob Neyer

It's fairly obvious that Albert Pujols was the best player in the National League in 2006. Despite playing in the pitcher-friendlier ballpark, he finished with higher on-base and slugging percentages than Howard. Pujols' performance in clutch situations was significantly better than Howard's. Pujols is, though not a fast baserunner, one of the very best-running first basemen in the majors; Howard is among the very worst (source: the new Bill James Handbook, which admittedly hadn't been published when the MVP voters submitted their ballots). Pujols is, by most accounts, a good defensive player; Howard is, by most accounts, close to worthless anywhere but in the batter's box (and off the field, where by all accounts he's a lovely fellow).


So here you have two players who play the same position, and one is, by most empirical methods, the better (more valuable) hitter, the better (more valuable) fielder, and the better (more valuable) runner.

 

[speedracer]

The voters probably thought Ryan Howard accomplished more with a weaker team (I don't know if the stats bear this out, but that's probably what they thought).

Plus, chicks dig the long ball.

 

[phillyfan26]

Is this to make up for screwing us out of the pivotal game against Washington by calling Utley's homer off the pole a foul ball?

It's not all stats, though - Howard did literally carry a failing team back into the playoff race over the summer.

 

[Chizip]

he carried his team to not making the playoffs? they could have done that with or without him. Pujols carried his team on his back, with better numbers, AND lead his team to the playoffs. and in the last couple weeks Howard slumped big time while Pujols hit a season saving homerun to get the Cards into the playoffs.

its weird how the writers criteria changes every year.

 

[speedracer]

Well, the writers did vote Alex Rodriguez the AL MVP in 2002 for carrying the Texas Rangers to within 27 games of a playoff berth.

 

[Chizip]

Well, the writers did vote Alex Rodriguez the AL MVP in 2002 for carrying the Texas Rangers to within 27 games of a playoff berth.

well at least then AROD was by far the best player in the league

this year Pujols was a slightly better hitter, a better baserunner, and a muuuuch better defender. he carried an otherwise bad team into the playoffs and allowed them to win a world series. But because Howard hit more homruns in a homerun hitters park he wins the MVP? thats ridic. Pujols had a better slugging percentage anyway.

2006 NL Win Shares:
Pujols-39
Beltran-38
Cabrera-34
Berkman-34
Wright-32
Howard-31
Soriano-30

Hell Beltran would have been a better choice. He plays great defense, and puts up great numbers from a premium position in CF, and he was on a playoff team.

and what's funny is that Jeter is going to win the MVP tomorrow with his 14 homeruns and 97 RBIs while Ortiz won't come close with his 54 homeruns and 137 rbis.

 

[randhail]

Jeter winning the MVP would be the equivalent of winning a lifetime achievement award. No standout candidates so give it to Jeter to complete his career.

 

[phanan]

When does the Baseball Writers Association vote for MVP? I can't remember if it is before the playoffs start or after, although I'm thinking it's before.

 

[Chizip]

yeah all awards are voted on before the playoffs start

 

[phillyfan26]

he carried his team to not making the playoffs? they could have done that with or without him. Pujols carried his team on his back, with better numbers, AND lead his team to the playoffs. and in the last couple weeks Howard slumped big time while Pujols hit a season saving homerun to get the Cards into the playoffs.

its weird how the writers criteria changes every year.

He carried his team from borderline firesale to competitor, and something you can work with, something that matters. That's why the core of the team is still there going into next year. Howard carried his team more than Pujols carried his. For longer anyway.

I'm not saying it's correct, I'm saying the reasoning. I think Pujols should have been MVP. But I do think Howard meant more to his team than Pujols did to his. The Phils have very little else on their roster. The Cards at least have some other pieces (i.e.: half-decent pitching).

And I think the writers know that Pujols would have hit the same number of homers had he not been hurt AND had played in Philly. Maybe more.

 

[Chizip]

He carried his team from borderline firesale to competitor, and something you can work with, something that matters. That's why the core of the team is still there going into next year. Howard carried his team more than Pujols carried his. For longer anyway.

I'm not saying it's correct, I'm saying the reasoning. I think Pujols should have been MVP. But I do think Howard meant more to his team than Pujols did to his. The Phils have very little else on their roster. The Cards at least have some other pieces (i.e.: half-decent pitching).

And I think the writers know that Pujols would have hit the same number of homers had he not been hurt AND had played in Philly. Maybe more.

How can you say Pujols had better players around him? The Phillies team OPS was 5th in MLB while the Cardinals' was 14th. And this is apparent in their RBI totals. The only reason Howard had more RBIs was because the lineup around him got on base much more often. Just look at these numbers:

Pujols
BA w/ RISP .397 SLG .802
BA w/ RISP and 2 outs .435 SLG .826

Howard
BA w/ RISP .256 SLG .518
BA w/ RISP and 2 outs .247 SLG .481

That's incredible.

The Cardinals had better pitching? They had Carpenter and a bunch of stiffs. Their team ERA was 4.54, the Phillies team ERA was 4.60, so they were basically the same. So I don't see how Pujols had more to work with when the Phillies team was much better at hitting, and had virtually identical pitching.

And Howard carried his team for longer? That's laughable. Pujols carried his team from day 1. He set the homerun record for April and kept it up throughout the year. Howard carried his team for half a year. Maybe if he had played better earlier, they wouldn't have become a "firesale" team. I'd rather have a player who is consistent throughout the whole year rather than someone who gets hot at the end. I mean the early games count just as much as the late ones. Without Pujols the Cardinals don't win 70 games, he was the team this year.

 

[Chizip]

The Dodgers sign Juan Freakin Pierre to a 5 year 45 million dollar deal

unreal

 

[phanan]

At this rate, Matsuzaka will turn out to be a bargain.

 

[Hewson]

and what's funny is that Jeter is going to win the MVP tomorrow with his 14 homeruns and 97 RBIs while Ortiz won't come close with his 54 homeruns and 137 rbis.

Thats not funny, its sad.
Jeter is worthy of consideration, but should place 3rd or 4th.
Justin Morneau or Jermaine Dye should finish ahead of him as well as Ortiz, who won't win due to the Red Sox' collpase in August and September.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

if pujols hadn't missed 3 weeks in the middle of the season he probably woulda hit 60 something...

screwed? how about an argument over who was more important to two teams that could barely get over .500 in the regular season? the cardinals won 83 games... woooooooo... yea, pujols got screwed. hey, howard led his team to more wins than the cardinals. this is a regular season award, after all.

no met finished better than 4th. who again got screwed?



to be fair... howard, pujols, beltran, reyes... all were worthy of winning... howard and pujols ultimately had the better glamour numbers. howard got the votes. he won. pujols could have won as well. he didn't... he didn't get screwed. if the cardinals won 90+ games and they still gave it to howard, that would be a screw job. this is a regular season award... the cardinals barely finished over .500 and almost pissed away the division in the last week.

 

[Numb1075]

I would have liked Moises Alou 6 years ago.