Welcome to the annual MLB Hot Stove thread

[phanan]

That was just in comparison to the Yankees, though - not everyone else.

Although with this move, he just might be up there with them this year.

 

[MrPryck2U]

The BoSox are a team in transition this off-season with a lot question marks. I wouldn't be surprised if this Japanese pitcher won 15 plus games and it still didn't matter for Boston.

 

[Hewson]

The guy makes about $3Million a season in Tsunamiland, so the Sox will offer him like $21 mil over 3 years, allowing him to be arbitration eligible after 2009 so he can get big bucks if he has proved he's worth it...and if he balks, its back to Japan, not the Bronx and The Sox get their $51.1 million back.

If he signs, the Sox can recoup a lot of the $51 million (which won't count towrads luxury tax as its not salary) through new revenue streams like TV in Japan and merchandising in Japan. Ask the Mariners and Yanks about how lucrative that can be.

 

[Chizip]

didnt theo complain about a lack of resources earlier this year?

i think he's given up the right to use that excuse anymore.

Oh man, this writer said exactly what I was thinking

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9803361

The Red Sox have, at times, griped bitterly about the "Evil Empire" to their south. About the Yankees' jack-up-the-Visa-card expenditures that, to many, long since ago moved from despicable to obscene.

And everyone already knew George Steinbrenner was Satan himself.

So now we come to the winter following Boston's highly disappointing 2006 season, and what do we have here?

The Red Sox paying a sum believed to be in the neighborhood of $51 million simply for the right to negotiate with much-heralded Japanese pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka?

Turns out, it's a short ride from where Boston was on Aug. 20 to Matsuzaka's doorstep.

It was on that day Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein explained that the Red Sox didn't have the resources to field an "uber team."

This was in the midst of watching the Yankees humiliate his club in a five-game sweep and in the aftermath of the Yankees having taken on $27 million in payroll to get Bobby Abreu -- an on-base specialist whose power had disappeared -- and the implication needed no translation.

Standing on the Fenway Park grass that day, asked whether Abreu was an example of the Yankees compiling an uber team, Epstein said:

"Yeah, conceivably that's an example where we didn't have the resources to take on his salary this year or next year. But we have tremendous resources, don't get me wrong. We have fantastic resources, that's just not something we can do with a (luxury tax bill) of $20 million-plus dollars. That's not something we can do.

"To upgrade in right field is not worth it to us because we have to spread that money around to execute our plan and build the '07 team."

Whether the Red Sox had plans for Matsuzaka at that time for the '07 team isn't clear, though the guess here is they did. Epstein and all successful GMs work on parallel paths, not only in the present but with one eye on the future at the same time.

While Epstein can be excused for taking a shot at the Yankees and their uber team that day -- you grade on the curve regarding statements when a club is absolutely getting its brains beaten in -- what's clear from the Matsuzaka bidding is that there is no more room for lectures, sour grapes or a false sense of moral superiority.

Not after Boston's estimated tab simply for the right to negotiate with Matsuzaka was three times the entire payroll of the 2006 Florida Marlins.

so true, so true

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Forbes is legit for sure, but I still question the info because the Yanks are also number one in MLB merch if not overall sports merch. I have a habit of distrusting so-called figures. Especially something like 37.1 million. If the Yanks aren't making money, then who is for that matter? Look at the Mets. CitiBank is paying 20 mil a year for the naming rights to their new stadium. Why do they need this money? I guess they are losing money too. Maybe more than the Yanks.

you are forgetting the very important luxary tax figure.

not only are the yankees paying $100 million dollars more than the mets and red sox in player salary, they are also paying over $100 million in luxary tax dollars.

that's over 200 million dollars more than the mets and/or red sox are paying per season, let alone what the rest of baseball is paying.

so they may bring in, say, 1/2 a billion dollars per season.. but then close to $400 million of that is heading right back out the door just in player salary and luxary tax... not to mention staff salary (joe torre's makin' 10 mill a year), stadium upkeep, minior leagues, scouting, travel expenses, overhead & the fact that they're trying to build a billion dollar stadium with their own money.

do i think there's other money out there that isn't included in the forbes report and that the yankees are making a profit? could be... but it ain't much. they are spending money at an unbelievable rate. it's bound to catch up to them eventually. even donald trump went bankrupt...

 

[MrPryck2U]

You do have valid points. That luxury tax is a bitch for the Yanks.
Ironically enough, I think that Trump has gone bankrupt TWICE since The Boss has owned the Yanks. That's 33 years! Trump owned one pro sports during this time I believe. Does anyone remember? That would be the USFL's New Jersey Generals.
Anyway, I guess I have the comfort of knowing that a great American tradition is to be in debt. Something that Trump has plenty of experience in. So, the Yanks, the BoSox and the Mets will probably go on losing money despite how much they rake in from tv and the fans.
Ain't sports great?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You do have valid points. That luxury tax is a bitch for the Yanks.
Ironically enough, I think that Trump has gone bankrupt TWICE since The Boss has owned the Yanks. That's 33 years! Trump owned one pro sports during this time I believe. Does anyone remember? That would be the USFL's New Jersey Generals.
Anyway, I guess I have the comfort of knowing that a great American tradition is to be in debt. Something that Trump has plenty of experience in. So, the Yanks, the BoSox and the Mets will probably go on losing money despite how much they rake in from tv and the fans.
Ain't sports great?

no one said anything about the red sox and mets losing money... they aren't. the yankees are. that extra 200+ million from luxary tax and salary kills them.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

the red sox bid 51 million for matsuzaka, which everyone knows already.

the mets came in at #2 with a 38 million dollar bid, the yankees #3 at 31 million.

the winning bid for ichiro's negotiation rights? 13.25 million.

 

[Hewson]

That's leaving money on the table big time.

 

[Numb1075]

the red sox bid 51 million for matsuzaka, which everyone knows already.

the mets came in at #2 with a 38 million dollar bid, the yankees #3 at 31 million.

the winning bid for ichiro's negotiation rights? 13.25 million.

thats crazy. due to the fact that it was a "blind" draw, the Sox could have bid 39 million and not 51 million and still won. so they basically just pissed away 12 million.

 

[MrPryck2U]

You really are a Headache.

 

[phillyfan26]

Phillies Updates

Interested in P Adam Eaton and IF Wes Helms

Plan to meet with reps of 2B/LF Alfonso Soriano ( )

Randy Wolf talking to other teams

 

[Chizip]

there aren't a ton of teams who want to spend though... soriano should get around 13 million, lee around 8 or 9... sheffield, with his injury history, was probably only looking at 6 or 7 per... and yes, i do understand how ridiculous it is to say "only 6 or 7 million"

so yeah, Sheffield will be making 41 million over the next 3 seasons

Frank Thomas will be making 23 million over the next 2 years

You got JD Drew backing out of 33 million over the next 3 years because he knows he can get much more.

The Red Sox spent 51 million just to negotiate with a player.

All signs were pointing to a ridiculous offseason, and man when all the dust settles, there will have been complete carnage. I don't even want to think about what Soriano is going to get.

 

[Hewson]

Scott Boras at it again...looking for 6 years $96 Million for Baked Ziti...and Boras represents the Japanese dude whose name I might learn by 2013 if he signs with the Sox, which seems less likely since he has Bor-ass as an agent

 

[Numb1075]

Scott Boras at it again...looking for 6 years $96 Million for Baked Ziti...

that Baked Ziti better come w/ some nice garlic bread and a bottle of wine for that price, that, and a few more MPHs on his heater.

 

[Hewson]

You got JD Drew backing out of 33 million over the next 3 years because he knows he can get much more.

.

Report out of Philly has Drew set to sin with Red Sox for 4yrs, $48 Million...so only an extra 1 mil per season, but an added year if its accurate.

 

[phanan]

So is J.D. Drew better than Johnny Damon now?

 

[Hewson]

Better arm (but of course my 2 year old throws better than Johnny)

 

[speedracer]

What exactly are the Red Sox planning to do with Wily Mo Pena then? Can we get Bronson Arroyo back?

 

[phillyfan26]

Philly signed Wes Helms to a 2 year, 5.5 million dollar deal. Helms quietly hit .329 in 140 games with the Marlins last year.

He'll start and play regularly at third.

I think this will end up being our lineup:
Rollins SS
Victorino CF
Utley 2B
Howard 1B
Conine LF
Helms 3B
Coste C
Delucci RF

 

[Chizip]

im gonna laugh at whoever signs jd drew and jason marquis

 

[Numb1075]

Philly signed Wes Helms to a 2 year, 5.5 million dollar deal. Helms quietly hit .329 in 140 games with the Marlins last year.

He'll start and play regularly at third.

I think this will end up being our lineup:
Rollins SS
Victorino CF
Utley 2B
Howard 1B
Conine LF
Helms 3B
Coste C
Delucci RF

that's not exactly a powerhouse line up. I think even Pat the Bat would provide more protection for Howard than the 40 year old Conine (coming off a 10 HR season)

 

[Dalton]

So, unless the Tigers can find a cheap, left-fielder, that hits at the top of the order, they are done for the off-season (with the exception of a Lefty out of the pen).

2007 Line-up:

CF Granderson - Good kid, I just don't see him as a lead-off guy.
2B Polanco
RF Maggs
DH Sheff
SS Guillen - Unless they have him batting 4th to give them a R-L-R
C Pudge
1B Casey
LF Monroe/Thames
3B Inge

That's not too bad.

Starting Rotation:
1. Rogers - I can't imagine him pitching as well as he did this year again, but he should eat innings.
2. Bonderman - I think he is poised for a break out season.
3. Maroth - Solid Lefty
4. Robertson - Nate is one of those guys I love. He's not a great pitcher, but he will eat innings and compete like hell
5. Verlander - I expect him to have a HUGE sophmore slump because of all the innings he threw this year (see: 2006 Chicago White Sox - All)

 

[Dalton]

im gonna laugh at whoever signs jd drew and jason marquis

I'll be right there with you. Does JD get to park in the handicap spots?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

All signs were pointing to a ridiculous offseason, and man when all the dust settles, there will have been complete carnage. I don't even want to think about what Soriano is going to get.

you were right... so much for the return to sanity in the market.

 

[Bluer White]

I'll be right there with you. Does JD get to park in the handicap spots?

Sports Guy on ESPN.com had this to say about the Sox:

"The Red Sox have gone in so many different directions over the past two seasons, I can't summon adequate reactions to their transactions anymore. No move seems to have any correlation to the last one. They claim they have a budget, then they toss $10-million-a-year contracts around like it's the year 2056. They claim they want to build something substantial for the long haul, then they deal quality prospects who end up thriving on other teams and keep ones who look positively terrible when they get called up. They claim to care about clubhouse chemistry, then they keep allowing popular players like Pedro, Damon, Lowe and Roberts to leave. They claim to value at-bats, on-base percentage and pitch counts, then they trade for a free swinger like Wily Mo Pena. They claim to understand which players would succeed in a baseball city as tough as Boston, then they keep bringing in players who aren't mentally tough enough to play there (Renteria, Suppan, Kim, Crisp, Clement and hopefully not J.D. Drew). They claim they don't want to overspend like the Yankees do, then they blow everyone else out of the water in the Matsuzaka bidding."

 

[CTU2fan]

I really don't want 'Nancy' Drew on the Sox...he's a good hitter, got a decent arm, good defensive outfielder. But he's always appeared soft to me. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who can handle a high-pressure environment like NY or Boston.

I haven't heard anything but I hope they're exploring bringing Orlando Cabrera back. Angels have Wood ready, as well as Izturis and another young SS (Aybar?), and supposedly want to move OC's contract. Maybe a Lowell/OC swap, and the Sox move Youkilis to 3B and go get a 1B?

 

[Chizip]

Cubs reportedly sign Soriano for 8 years 136 million

as a Cards fan I say good signing

 

[phillyfan26]

that's not exactly a powerhouse line up. I think even Pat the Bat would provide more protection for Howard than the 40 year old Conine (coming off a 10 HR season)

Conine gets on base. He hit over .300 with the Phils.

Burrell never hit in any scenario where we needed him. I'd take Conine any day of the week.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

soriano will hit 50 in wrigley... and strike out 180 times.

mets meanwhile are close to signing moises alou to a one year deal. i like it. i like it alot. if he's healthy and productive it gives the mets a very solid right handed run producer, which they were missing in the playoffs last year. if his age catches up to him and he's not the same, it's only a one year deal and you can dump him easily.

this also frees them up even more-so to trade lastings milledge for pitching.