Useful punishments for students

[Angela Harlem]

detention. during lunch for repeat offenders. 3 times you miss your homework, and you get a week's detention. no humiliation.



and grade their homework.

 

[Angela Harlem]

marty that's harassment. i dont know what the rules are in france, but here a teacher would be sued (potentially - as an extreme) for making a show of a student's lack of work in front of his/her peers.

there are many ways to make a student regret not doing 15 minutes of homework.

make the homework itself interesting so it isn't such a chore. make them watch english tv shows and write a 200 word report on it, or something. make them find an english website which they have to paraphrase in 200 words. i assume most of them have access to the internet.

or give them detention. you win, they dont get humiliated and everyone is happy.

 

[Popmartijn]

marty that's harassment. i dont know what the rules are in france, but here a teacher would be sued (potentially - as an extreme) for making a show of a student's lack of work in front of his/her peers.

Why is that harassment?
Class starts and the teacher wants to discuss the homework. So she asks to a person:
"What are your findings for the first assignment?"
- Uuuuhhhhh... I haven't done it.
"Why not?"
- Well... uuuhhhhhhh... yeah... uuuuuhhhhh... My dog... uuuuuhhhhh... ate my homework ... uuuuuhhhh... before I could take a look at it.
Now the teacher marks that the person hasn't done the homework (three marks and then a detention, or an extra assignment, or whatever) and asks another person.

Of course, this is just a hypothetical example. It could also be like:
"What are your findings for the first assignment?"
- I thought that the answer has to be... <insert a persons findings of the said assignment>

Etc.

So why is it harassment to ask somebody what he/she had found for the assignment?

C ya!

Marty

 

[MissMaCo]

Not so many students have access to internet. Otherwise, I would have ask them to read FYM and make essaies or debates about it !

 

[Angela Harlem]

sorry marty, it sounded like you were suggesting to single out those who marie knows hadnt done it, thus harassing them.

 

[Popmartijn]

sorry marty, it sounded like you were suggesting to single out those who marie knows hadnt done it, thus harassing them.

No, I don't mean to single out only those who haven't done it. However, I do think that after a while you know who does and who doesn't do his/her homework. So you can make them have a higher probability to be asked the answers for the assignments. However, it should not be just them, as everyone should have a chance of answering the assignments.

And I still don't think that asking someone if he/she has done the homework (and if not, why not) is harassment. A teacher must be able to ask that. And when someone hasn't done it the last time (or the last few times), then I don't think it is unreasonable for a teacher to ask it again. If only to find the reason for not doing it (and thus finding out if there are other factors/problems that need to be addressed).

C ya!

Marty

BTW, you apologised!
I'm going to keep this 'Sorry'-statement, print it out and frame it.

 

[Angela Harlem]

i always apologise when im wrong! i'm rarelky wrong though!!

kidding...

but that said ( ) a teacher must treat everyone the same. and obviously knowing after a while who has done homework and who hasn't shouldnt be a reason to start asking thew students who dont, regualrly if they have, while knowing they didnt....this is not making sense

 

[MissMaCo]

another question for you :
what's the best behaviour when finding out a student cheating ?

- if you say : "hey you ! you're cheating, gimme your piece of paper !" = humiliation, right ?

- if you see him / her cheating and don't say anything at the right moment but give him / her a very good mark = how to prove that he / she has been cheating ? He / she could say that I'm a liar cause I have no proof.






Poll : have you ever cheated in class ? Not copying on your classmate but really cheating with your book opened on your knees for instance ?

 

[Popmartijn]

but that said ( ) a teacher must treat everyone the same. and obviously knowing after a while who has done homework and who hasn't shouldnt be a reason to start asking thew students who dont, regualrly if they have, while knowing they didnt....this is not making sense

It might motivate those students to do their homework. If you know they're going to check whether or not you've done it and if you know the probability YOU get checked is high, then there's often a higher motivation to do it.
It's the same everywhere in life. If you know that the probability you get caught speeding is high, then you won't do it (very easily). However, if the probability is low, you're much less bothered with it. Ditto with shoplifting (camera's and RFID tags work to prevent it) or travelling on public transport without paying (checkpoints, personnel, etc.).

C ya!

Marty

 

[Popmartijn]

another question for you :
what's the best behaviour when finding out a student cheating ?

- if you say : "hey you ! you're cheating, gimme your piece of paper !" = humiliation, right ?

I don't think that is humiliation. And if it is, then I'm not bothered by it. The student did something wrong. You, as a teacher, have to confront the student with that. They have to know that their actions have consequences which they may not like.

In my classes, if you were found cheating I think you got a standard 1 as a mark (out of 10, so the lowest possible). In some classes detention too, etc. That's the risk of doing it.

Poll : have you ever cheated in class ? Not copying on your classmate but really cheating with your book opened on your knees for instance ?

I can't remember exactly (as I think I was quite a model student), but probably. Not much though...

BTW, why isn't copying on your classmate cheating? It is just as worse.

C ya!

Marty

 

[souLnation2002]

Here if you're caught cheating, the teacher takes your paper and puts a big fat zero at the top.

 

[MissMaCo]

Copying on your classmate is cheating but I think it's worse to have a crib ! Means that you made it before the test instead of learning your lesson.

 

[MissMaCo]

Here if you're caught cheating, the teacher takes your paper and puts a big fat zero at the top.

When I was at school myself that's what most of the teachers did too, but some also close their eyes...and thus avoided the conflict

 

[Laura M]

Social promotion is what usually happens now. I am against it. This is how students get to high school and read at a 4th grade level.

As for parents being up in arms, maybe they should take a harder look at what their student is or isn't doing in school. Teachers and parents have to work together to get children through school.

Yes but imagine your child is wrongly punished for something at school or the teacher takes a disliking to them for no reason but helps the pupils he/she likes and lets your child fall behind even if it hasn't done anything. You would be angry too. Especially if it had been happening a long time before you had heard anything about it. I dont think holding someone back is really a good idea to try and motivate them. If I had a teacher who had held me back I would have been even more discouraged to do my work.

 

[Tomer]

just for your curiosity: im not supposed to be at school at 10 pm........

 

[Tomer]

Poll : have you ever cheated in class ? Not copying on your classmate but really cheating with your book opened on your knees for instance ?

oh come on some teachers just ask for it!

 

[Liesje]

Yes but imagine your child is wrongly punished for something at school or the teacher takes a disliking to them for no reason but helps the pupils he/she likes and lets your child fall behind even if it hasn't done anything. You would be angry too. Especially if it had been happening a long time before you had heard anything about it. I dont think holding someone back is really a good idea to try and motivate them. If I had a teacher who had held me back I would have been even more discouraged to do my work.

Lara, I think the big difference (at least what I'm feeling from this thread) is that in the States we grade students much more objectively. Like I said before, once you reach age 11 or so, everything is graded on points. It doesn't matter who you are. If you do your homework, you get 10 out of 10 points. If you turn it in late, you get 5 out of 10 pts, etc. So at the end of the semester, if you don't have 65% of all the points, you failed the class and have to take it over. It just not possible for a teacher to have a grudge on someone and hold them back b/c if the student tallied enough points to pass, he passes. No one is ever "punished" for anything. It's your choice to do the homework or not do the homework or do a half assed job, but then you get the point score you deserve. For example, sometimes I say to myself "I'd rather go out tonight and to me, it's worth getting 0/10 on this homework". The teachers at my schools also had no way of choosing who they helped. Most kids have one study hall a day which is a class period where you work on homework and projects and if you need help, you get a pass and go visit the teachers you want to help you. If a kid doesn't have a study hall period and still needs help, then it's his/her responsibility to contact the teacher and meet with the teacher for extra help. They can't say "sorry, I refuse to help you" or they'd lose their job! Besides, once your 11 and up, you're really taking lots of classes so even if you get held back in one, it's not the same as moving back a grade level. My bro in high school (he's 17) failed two of his classes, so all he has to do is take them over in time to graduate with his class. Everyone is taking tons of different classes with people of many ages so failing a class or two isn't really that devastating.

It's not fair to pass a kid b/c you feel sorry for them and the kid can't do anything his peers can. The kid will just get frusterated and lack confidence and have NO motivation to try and catch up.
This is how the public schools in my city are. They pass kids just like you want and these kids get to high school and still can't even read. One of the big public high schools has the EASIEST grading scale ever (90-100% = A) and yet only half of their students graduate.

 

[Diemen]

The one point that has been touched on but not really brought to the front here is parent involvement. If you've got a student who regularly misses their homework, I think it'd definitely be worth it to talk to the parents. Express your concern that their child hasn't been turning in their homework, and you're concerned because homework does affect the overall grade (right?). It might even help to ask if perhaps there's something going on in the kid's life just to show to the parents that you're genuinely interested in the kid and his/her education, but make it clear that continued poor performance will be reflected in their grades.

This encourages the parents to become more involved with their child's education, plus it gives that child another source of motivation (even if it is to stop their parents from nagging them ). I'd also sit down with the student one-on-one and express your concern directly to him/her. Let them know that the homework serves a purpose beyond busy work, and express the same concern that continued poor performance in homework will have a negative effect on their overall grade. They'll probably be a bit apathetic at first, but if you show that you're genuinely interested in their education and overall well-being (while still remaining firm on your rules), you may be surprised by their willingness to improve.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

another question for you :
what's the best behaviour when finding out a student cheating ?

I tell my students that I will rip their test into tiny pieces if they cheat. When someone does cheat I do rip it up and give them a zero. I would say it's embarrassing. Students don't cheat after that.

 

[Liesje]

If we cheat, not only do we get a zero, but probably outright fail the class. The administration is contacted and they are the ones who deal with the punishment. Same goes for plagarism.

 

[MissMaCo]

First test this morning : no cheating !

 

[BAW]

 

[Tomer]

they couldnt stop staring at the teacher?

 

[MissMaCo]

they couldnt stop staring at the teacher?

They had to make a physical description of someone famous. One student had the picture of Sarah Michelle Gellar and he wrote... "she is beautiful like the teacher !"

 

[Diemen]

Smart kid!

 

[Tomer]

did he gat an A?

 

[MissMaCo]

He won't get an A (in France we don't use the letter system) for he has lots of mistakes like : She is blue eyes, she has tall and slim...

 

[Tomer]

did he get a one?

we use numbers too

 

[MissMaCo]

one is a very bad mark

10/10 or 20/20 are excellent

 

[Rono]

He won't get an A (in France we don't use the letter system) for he has lots of mistakes like : She is blue eyes, she has tall and slim...

You found my old English test