Tori Amos

[HeartlandGirl]

Originally posted by foray:

HeartlandGirl, you saw her live? I should be so fortunate

...

foray

I saw her on the Dew Drop Inn tour in Oklahoma City. It was just her, the piano, and Caton.

Then I saw the Plugged '98 tour with the full band in Norman, OK. That's where she played Raspberry Swirl and it really rocked out.

Do you know when she'll be touring again? Has she never been to your area? I hope you get to see her soon. You'd really love it. Everyone sits there mesmerized, totally unlike a U2 concert.

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U2 @ The Blooming Heart

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

Originally posted by foray:
Yeah maybe newbies should start with Boys For Pele. Little Earthquakes and Under The Pink are also fine as starting albums... This was all before her 'quasi-electronica' era...

foray

Cool, I'll check them out.

 

[Bound]

Originally posted by Kieran McConville:


I find some of her more weird and wacky faerie ramblings a bit off-putting, but to be fair that is a personal thing - it has little to do with the actual songs.

yea, she's "out there" sometimes. I'm more put off by some of her more ardent fans though, obsessing over Tori as if she is a some Goddess sent from heaven to answer their prayers.

'boys for pele' is a difficult album for a newbie to start out with though, so I'm suprised so many are recommending it first. It was the first tori album I listened to all the way through and it was tough for me to get all the way to the end of it the first several times I listened to it. I was like "come on already!", "couldn't this album be shorter by about 5 songs!" Eventually, many of the songs got to me.

Some of her songwriting I find to be pretentious and grimace inducing, but she has the capacity to be very moving.. heck, sometimes in the very songs that I think her lyrics suck! go figure.

 

[foray]

Tori has never been to this side of the world on her tours; I think she mostly just tours USA and UK.

The thing about the fairies, yes, I agree with what Kieran and Bound said about it being off-putting or weird or something. Did you know Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was like that as well? There is a theory going around that fairies did exist but were demons instead, hence the multitude of poems written as warnings against fairies. I can't think of one off the top of my head; I think John Keats wrote one? Anyway, I digress.

Thoughts about Strange Little Girls: I think the songs on this album seem removed (to me) because it's more an intellectual discussion on gender and what not, instead of Tori and her emotions. Anyone feel the same way?

97 Bonnie & Clyde is one of my favourite off that album. She obviously uses that same voice when she talks to her daughter, so that notion itself is scary. I like how she says 'mom was being mean to dad'; the way she does it conveys a whole lot more than the words.


foray

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Originally posted by Bound:
'boys for pele' is a difficult album for a newbie to start out with though, so I'm suprised so many are recommending it first. It was the first tori album I listened to all the way through and it was tough for me to get all the way to the end of it the first several times I listened to it.

That's what I was thinking too. BfP is a fantastic album once you get into it, but it's definitely not an easy album to listen to the first few times you hear it. Then again, it's usually the records you don't love at first but come to love after hearing about ten times that become your favourites in the end.

 

[Bound]

yep. totally agree. I think it's 'cause the songs/albums that have more complex structures or have unfamiliar themes, sounds or tonal qualities to them (or without easy hooks to grab your attention).. these take longer to "get", but once you do, they offer more satisfaction... they're 'meatier' in some ways, providing greater long-term sustenance.

And yes foray, it's true what you say about strange little girls being less personal/more.. analytical maybe. (I'm not touching the faerie/demon discussion - wouldn't want to piss either group off.. espcecially if they're one in the same!)

 

[joyfulgirl]

Thanks to HeartlandGirl for telling me about this thread. I am a huge Tori Amos fan--she's actually the only other artist besides U2 that I travel to see. Her concerts are just mindblowing in a completely different way than U2 shows are. As HG said, people just sit there mesmerized--you can practically hear the person next to you breathing. Although that wasn't really the case on the Plugged tour where everyone was on their feet dancing...but when's she's solo, there is total silence.

"Boys For Pele"...*sigh*...yes, that's the one. That's my "Achtung Baby" as someone else said. Just brilliant.

Hey foray--so we disagree on meditation but, wow, TORI!

This makes me happy.

Ok, so about a 2002 tour and record...I lurk over in the Tori Amos forum (a scary place sometimes, but their version of "Free Your Mind" can be fun--they're way out there) and rumours have it that Tori hinted to fans during her fall tour Meet & Greets that she would probably be touring in fall 2002 to support a new record sometime in September. All rumours, mind you, but rumours from the horse's mouth. They think if and when it happens, it might be with a band. I had tickets to see her in November just two days before I saw U2--I was out of my mind with joy thinking I'd see my two favorite artists within a three day period, but I sold the tickets because my best friend died around that time and her show would've been too painful without him. But I did go to the U2 show--different energy, and I needed that.

 

[foray]

[ramble ahead]

Yeah, glad about it, too, joyfulgirl. I sure stepped on a lot of toes in that other thread!

Come to think of it, I do remember Boys For Pele not being as accessible as Under the Pink or Little Earthquakes. Yes, I think I actually liked BfP the least, but now it's my favourite. My Tori journey began with Under The Pink and Cornflake Girl remains the ultimate Tori rock song - what a great piano riff! I then got into Little Earthquakes because I was still into the 'soft' sounding Tori. Then I bought Choirgirl and appreciated her incorporation of electronica (I agree with Heartland Girl, Raspberry Swirl rawks... it's strange how something can sound so 80s yet still be 90s or something). To Venus & Back is wonderful, though I like her live album more than the studio. My favourites from Venus are Bliss, Lust, Josephine, 1000 Oceans, Suede. I don't ilke Glory of the 80s much. I was very excited when Strange Little Girls was first released and I even got the cover sleeve I wanted (the one that says Satin Worship). I can't wait for Tori's next album. I think she really has quality control when it comes to her music. Just think about her b-sides - even those are fantastic. She said that she likes the idea of b-sides being a cult of their own. And according to her, her favourites never make the albums - just shows us how strict she is with her album themes.

What are your favourite b-sides or non-album songs? I like Merman, Graveyard, Toodles Mr Jim and Sugar.


foray

 

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by foray:
[ramble ahead]
Just think about her b-sides - even those are fantastic. She said that she likes the idea of b-sides being a cult of their own. And according to her, her favourites never make the albums - just shows us how strict she is with her album themes.

What are your favourite b-sides or non-album songs? I like Merman, Graveyard, Toodles Mr Jim and Sugar.
foray

I agree--her B-sides are generally amazing. "Cooling" is breathtaking. Her cover of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" has got to be one of the best ever covers--she made that song hers. I also like "Siren" from the "Great Expectations" soundtrack (even though I can't understand half the words!) and "Honey."

 

[HeartlandGirl]

Can someone explain to me the "faeries" thing? I have no idea what you're talking about.

If I had to recommend a beginning album for new Tori people, I'd say, start from the beginning. Little Earthquakes is so good, very Tori, and not so weird that someone with an open mind can't handle it. As for BFP, I loved it from the get-go and it didn't have to grow on me. Actually, none of her albums have had to grow on me, just particular songs.

As for B-sides, Honey and Sugar are good ones. Cooling blows my mind, though. And I love her cover of Angie. I'm a fan of a male singer named Angie Aparo who is very wonderful, and when I sing along, I pretend I'm singing to him!

Before I admit any other secrets, I'll just sit back and wait for more info on the faerie issue. Thanks!

Also, where do you live foray, if you don't mind saying. I know she's toured in Europe some...

------------------
U2 @ The Blooming Heart

 

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by HeartlandGirl:
Can someone explain to me the "faeries" thing? I have no idea what you're talking about.

Ever notice the fans that show up at her concerts wearing faery wings? LOL...Tori believes in faeries, always thanks them in the credits on her records (although sometimes it's hidden in code like on "Choirgirls," apparently--I have yet to find it) but apparently it's the fans who took a couple of her references to the faeries and ran with it, as in into the ground. Here are a couple of magazine blurbs with quotes from Tori on the subject:

Besides the fire Goddess Pele, Amos really has a thing for faeries. Not the kind of faerie you're thinking of -- actual faeries. During our talk she makes several references to the little sprites and has thanked them in all three of her albums. "I think people who can't believe in faeries are not worth knowing," Amos says.

That's a famous quote that got a lot of fans up in arms.

She may be goin' through non-stop changes, but magazine writers have her pegged as some kind of smug new-age guru. "I try not to read my press. It makes you crazy! If one more person brings up the faeries, I don't know what I'm gonna do," she says, referring to the dwarfish protagonists of some songs from earlier in her career. "It goes back to studying mythology and really getting fascinated with a race of people who were driven underground. They were called faeries in later lore, but they've become this whole caricature. This is difficult to explain to people, when all they can think about is Tinkerbell."

LOL--I dunno--I file this under "whatever". As long she keeps cranking out the great music, I don't care what inspires it!



[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 01-29-2002).]

 

[foray]

Hahaha, joyfulgirl. Those are great quotes.

I just remembered why BfP had to grow on me: because I was turned off by her lyrics in Father Lucifer, and I wasn't sure what she was singing about in Muhammad My Friend. Sounded blasphemous. But now I concentrate on the piano and not the words.

foray

 

[Kieran McConville]

I think I started the 'faerie' thing. My meaning was that some of the stuff Tori comes out with in interviews and the like is, to me, not to be taken seriously. I also said that imo, this side of her isn't really apparent in the actual songs, which cover a much broader canvas of emotions.

BTW, although I like it well enough, I'd rate Boys for Pele her worst album by a long shot. It is self-indulgent in the worst kind of way.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by foray:
I just remembered why BfP had to grow on me: because I was turned off by her lyrics in Father Lucifer, and I wasn't sure what she was singing about in Muhammad My Friend. Sounded blasphemous. But now I concentrate on the piano and not the words.
foray

These are certainly two controversial and much-discussed songs. As it turns out, I don't think they're blasphemous at all, although I'm not a Christian as you know so I no doubt hear things differently. Still, here is what Tori says about both of these songs:

from TORI AMOS - THE UNCIRCUMCISED GODDESS
By Paul Gargano, The Shepherd Express, 6/6/96

According to Amos, her rich and structured religious up-bringing explains her present status as a "born-again pagan." Her father is a minister with a doctorate in theology. After attending church four times a week until she turned 21, Amos began to doubt some of the Christian dogma being professed. She educated herself in world religions, read all she could, and began to formulate theories of her own.
"I sat there and started to think, 'Alright, I've heard all this backwards and forwards from every angle, and fine, I'm into this love your neighboor as yourself, that's great, but where does all this fear come from about dancing the primitive dance, the concept of woman, their sensuality, their connection with all aspects of the self? I read a bit of mythology, with Isis, etcetera, and said, OK, where did all of this go? Where's the balance? Where's the female aspect of God? The fragmentation of the feminine is something that really started to perk my interest. That's what 'Muhammad My Friend' is about, trying to find the female part of God that's been circumcised.

from Diva magazine, November 2001

She has always had an eye for provocative image--such as the early 90s record cover that depicted her suckling a piglet. "That was my Madonna and child. Father asked me if I'd do a Christmas picture for the letter he sends every year as a minister. He called me up, asking `Tori Eleanor, what is this?' I said, `That's my Madonna and child. Don't you think it's important, Dad--that that which isn't kosher needs nursing too?"

Tori has another dainty sip of her tea. "He's taken a lot over the years," she continues. "One song that upset him the most was Father Lucifer. He was very hurt about that. I said, `Dad, this is not about you. I took drugs, took a journey, a shamanic experience, and I had an affair with Lucifer'. I said this at the Sunday dinner table with the chicken. Everyone put their forks down and went, `Oh no', but my Dad just went, `Oh. OK then'."

LOL--"Father Lucifer" was the result of a drug trip!


[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 01-30-2002).]

 

[HeartlandGirl]

Hmmm...thanks!

I myself don't believe in faeries, but I've seen lots of faked pictures of them from the early 20th century. I did notice that she thanked them in her liner notes, but had no clue that she was being literal and not just referring to close human friends of hers.

As for her concerts, I pay very little attention to the other fans. I go, I sit down, I enjoy the music, and I leave. There are definitely some strange ones, but I ignore them. As someone else said, I find it more than slightly annoying that there are people who almost quite literally worship Tori as a goddess, sent to answer their prayers and lead them to the glory land. I don't feel that way at all. Consequently, I don't dress up in costumes or all black and then bawl all the way through the concert, as I've seen others do.

Thus, I've kind of kept my Tori fandom quiet. Once I was wearing a concert t-shirt and a girl walked up to me in a public bathroom and said, "I hate her. Her fans are a bunch of scary freaks. Some girls at my high school worshipped her and it was so annoying." I hope I'm not stepping on toes here, but I definitely think some of Tori's weirder fans have given the rest of us a bad name.

Thanks for explaining. Any thoughts?

------------------
U2 @ The Blooming Heart

 

[joyfulgirl]

HG > I agree with you about her fans. I was shocked the first time I went to a concert and guessed that the average age of the audience was 16-21, and there I was just 3 years older than Tori. I couldn't figure out why she attracted such a young audience when I feel her music speaks to me as a mature woman. But then I realized that a huge part of her fan base comes from her work with RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) that Tori founded after her own rape experience. Many young teenagers who've been raped/abused feel that Tori's music, and Tori as a person, were the first things that helped them deal with those issues, and as a result there tends to be that worshipful element for a significant part of the fanbase. I went to one Meet & Greet and witnessed that Tori has a personal relationship with a lot of her fans. She invites them backstage for tea, she used to have them over to her house until that got out of control. I observed her counseling one poor girl for a really long time, almost like a therapist.

I don't know what to think about all that--except that she seems sincere in wanting to help these troubled young women. The fans over in the Tori forum are generally quite rabid and obsessed. I go there only for information and to chat occasionally in the other part of the forum about other issues, such as Free Your Mind here.

Me, I just love the music. And if some of the younger fans want to put on faery wings, then so be it as long as they don't block my view. I saw a few MacPhisto's at U2's shows, too.

As for faeries...I put them in the same category as angels. Haven't seen 'em, don't think about 'em much, but they could exist for all I know.



[This message has been edited by joyfulgirl (edited 01-30-2002).]

 

[HeartlandGirl]

I agree on all points, joyfulgirl. I saw an interview where she talked about starting the RAINN network. A girl had come to her concert and refused to leave because when she did, her father would beat her and molest her when she got home. That's when Tori says she decided she had to do something, since she personally could not help every fan who needed it.

And yeah, I'm into her for the music. Like you said, if people want to worship her or believe in faeries, no big deal. I don't deal with many Tori fanatics on a daily basis anyway. I don't so much have a problem with it, but other people often do, and they stereotype less fanatical fans like me. It's kind of a bummer, but not a good enough reason not to listen to Tori's beautiful music.

And I just love that green smilie...

------------------
U2 @ The Blooming Heart

 

[joyfulgirl]

Reading what I wrote above with this morning's eyes, it sounds like I've assumed that everyone here is older than the fans I mention. Foot in mouth. I enjoy many of the younger fans I've met, some of them wise beyond their years--it's just that initially I expected them to be a bit older--and certainly not all the younger fans are fanatical by any means, and some of the older ones are even more so. So hope I didn't hurt any feelings there.

Anyway, I love talking about Tori. A strange and complex woman, who really put me off at first but then I just fell in love with the music, her voice and the piano. Always look forward to what she will be up to next.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Yay, LMPopAngel! Hope you enjoy "Little Earthquakes." "Silent All These Years," "Winter," and "Precious Things" are classics. Actually, the whole record is a classic. The only thing I can't listen to is "Me and a Gun" but that's just me.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

I bought Little Earthquakes yesterday and am in love with it. I ordered Boys For Pele and Under the Pink last night.

I think I've always really liked her stuff, it was just not a priority to buy any of it. I'm glad I've finally decided to.