The Super Terrific MLB Thread - Part 4

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It's strange that Gagne has really done this bad since the trade. I thought he would come around eventually, but it never happened.

Now he's just along for the ride and may get a ring for doing absolutely nothing.
 
phanan said:
It's strange that Gagne has really done this bad since the trade. I thought he would come around eventually, but it never happened.

Now he's just along for the ride and may get a ring for doing absolutely nothing.
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He looked pretty good for the first three batters -- strikeout, hit, then a filthy changeup that Kenny Lofton somehow poked into center field for a hit and stretched into a double when Crisp and Drew took their sweet time fetching the ball. After that, he started going all over the place, as has happened before.

It seems that he has good pitches, but as soon as something goes wrong he starts losing his confidence and missing the strike zone.
 
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Yeah the velocity was definitely there yesterday (though that was a fast gun IMO) and so is the offspeed stuff. I can't figure it out. Though McArver mentioned him shaking his arm etc after pitches so maybe there's something wrong in there. If so take him off the roster and add Tavarez.

Good news is the good relievers (Delcarmen, Oki, Papelbon) will be well-rested for tonight if/when needed, though Cleveland's (Betancourt, Perez) are too.
 
He looked a little bat-shy to me. On some of those at-bats he would get ahead and try to get the hitters to chase, instead of just trusting his stuff and throwing a 3rd strike. I think he had Manny down 0-2 twice.

After he mowed them down in the 2nd I figured for sure they'd blown their chance to get to him when Lowell hit into that DP in the 1st...but then he started walking people and getting behind.

Oh and did anyone else notice the DP Peralta hit into? The ball wasn't hit that hard and I figured they'd be lucky to turn 2 - but he was out at 1B and it wasn't close. Looked like he was jogging down the line as he came into the picture at 1st.
 
zoney! said:


Drama...not just walks. He finds a way to close it (thankfully), but often finds a way to put people on. He is fun to watch.
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29/60 of Papelbon's appearances this season were clean (no baserunners).

24/70 of Mariano Rivera's appearances were clean.

31/68 of Joe Nathan's appearances were clean.

Papelbon has a lower WHIP (walks + hits per innings pitched) than Rivera and Nathan.

All of these statistics are easily accessible on ESPN.

I think your perception of Papelbon may be colored by a few specific appearances. He's clearly one of the top closers in MLB by any measure.
 
speedracer said:
He's clearly one of the top closers in MLB by any measure.
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Have I stated anything differently? I am not sure why you are making all of this effort to prove something here. You seem a bit defensive for some reason. I am not questioning his ability or stating FACT.

My perception is based purely on the games I have watched this season and living with a diehard Red Sox fan (who I am faithfully feeding text messages with game updates do to her unfortunate work schedule). Multiple family members of said roomie (all New Englanders and die hards) have even mentioned "the Paplebon Drama."

Armed with your research, I will make sure that they clearly know that their perceptions have no merit. Thank you for your efforts.
 
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zoney! said:

Have I stated anything differently? I am not sure why you are making all of this effort to prove something here. You seem a bit defensive ofr some reason. I am not questioning his ability or stating FACT.
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In explaining Papelbon's games as "dramatic", you stated that he "finds a way to put baserunners on". I thought that was what you meant when you called him "dramatic".


My perception is based purely on the games I have watched this season and living with a diehard Red Sox fan (who I am faithfully feeding text messages with game updates do to her unfortunate work schedule). Multiple family members of said roomie (all New Englanders and die hards) have even mentioned "the Paplebon Drama."
Click to expand...

How many Sox games have you watched this season? (Not challenging you here, just curious.)


Armed with your research, I will make sure that they clearly know that their perceptions are clearly have no merit. Thank you for your efforts.
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I know you're being sarcastic here...but please do.

I visit Red Sox boards frequently, and it is really quite amazing how pessimistic/nervous/crazy a lot of Red Sox fans still get when anything goes wrong. Schilling gives up the lead in the 4th inning against the Indians tonight, and everyone says "crap, there goes the game" even though Boston's down by only 1 and Carmona is gassed. Papelbon puts a runner or two on, and everyone says "WTF, why can't he strike out the side on 6 pitches like he's supposed to", etc. Seriously, it's like 2004 never happened.
 
speedracer said:
How many Sox games have you watched this season? (Not challenging you here, just curious.)
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Physically...two. Paplebon pitched in one of them. No baserunners for Papelbon (Joe Nathan, on the other hand...). It was not a save situation for Papelbon.

As for the rest of the summer...I was stuck with the nationally televised games (The few series against the Yankees). And I was stuck in Philly in a hotel with nothing but ESPN and TBS (for baseball).

Next year, we are getting the MLB package (mainly for Red Sox games...I doubt I will win the control of the remote. :D).

Again...heresay!

speedracer said:
I visit Red Sox boards frequently, and it is really quite amazing how pessimistic/nervous/crazy a lot of Red Sox fans still get when anything goes wrong.
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I refuse to visit ANY team related forums. The team forums (all of them) are filed with irrational fools...not too different from PLEBA. There is not a lot of logic to the unreasonable expectations of their teams (or band?).
 
speedracer said:
I visit Red Sox boards frequently, and it is really quite amazing how pessimistic/nervous/crazy a lot of Red Sox fans still get when anything goes wrong. Schilling gives up the lead in the 4th inning against the Indians tonight, and everyone says "crap, there goes the game" even though Boston's down by only 1 and Carmona is gassed. Papelbon puts a runner or two on, and everyone says "WTF, why can't he strike out the side on 6 pitches like he's supposed to", etc. Seriously, it's like 2004 never happened.
Click to expand...

I could see that on Red Sox boards, but overall, I don't think Red Sox fans get nearly as nervous now as before. I think 2004 totally changed a lot of people.
 
A lot of the hype is gone from them as well. I mean they still have hype, but there's not anything close to what would have been had 2004 not occurred, you know?

My Boston buddies are much easier going about the Sox now.
 
I would think at without the so-clled "curse" - it is a bit easier to live...but expectations should not be lowered!

The club is still spending gobs of cash in order to succeed.
 
I laughed my ass off at my buddy who's a Yankees fan for the same reasons that Justin is a Cowboys fan. Normally you don't rub it in TOO much, but a guy from Philly rooting for the Yanks? He deserves everything he gets.
 
Here is my token post-season post for 2007

DaveC said:
Jesus god this man never fails to blow a game...wow.
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Never. Sheesh. Francona wants to trust everyone...but some people just cannot be trusted.

/token post-season post
 
Gagne, Javier Lopez and Jon Lester all gave up runs in the top of the 11th.

Both starting pitchers went out early and taxed the bullpens. Cleveland's bullpen scrubs got the job done, Boston's didn't, and that's about it.
 
It is, in a nutshell. Tom Mastny > Eric Gagne, and there's your ballgame. Gagne needs to be replaced on this roster, as he can't be trusted in a close game and he's only a 1-inning guy so you can't use him as a longman. Gagne off, Tavarez on...DL Gagne with a sprained eyelid or something, I don't care.

Credit to the Tribe 'pen though, really that's where the game was won & lost. After Perez crapped the bed (Wedge deserves a bit of heat there - letting Perez pitch to Manny & Lowell in order to take advantage of a left/left matchup with JD Drew?) their pen didn't allow anything. If the Sox offense manages a single run among those 5 innings of 0's we're not even talking about Gagne (and that would be a good thing).
 
speedracer said:
Gagne, Javier Lopez and Jon Lester all gave up runs in the top of the 11th.

Both starting pitchers went out early and taxed the bullpens. Cleveland's bullpen scrubs got the job done, Boston's didn't, and that's about it.
Click to expand...

You knew when they got past Papelbon that it was over.
 
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