The 'Star Wars' Thread
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namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Bumping this...
I wanted to address a few of the complaints I often hear about the PT that I disagree with. You can never enough points of view...
1."They weren't needed in the first place"/"There wasn't enough story left to tell after the OT to warrant them"/"The OT gave us all the information we needed"/"Any questions that were left unanswered in the OT were just curiosities and not important or relevant enough to the story to warrant prequels"
If "how did Anakin become Vader", "how did Luke and Leia get separated", "what happened to the Jedi", "how did the Emperor come into power", "what is the republic the rebel alliance speaks of", etc, are not big enough questions to warrant prequels, I don't know what are. There was so much vague backstory and unanswered questions in the OT, I don't see how you could love those films and NOT want to see the backstory filled out.
2."There's no story in the prequels, it's just a special effects showcase with no depth and no charm"
I don't understand this one. There is plenty of story in the prequels. The story of how Palpatine used a trade dispute and Anakin's niavete to jump-start his manipulation of the entire galaxy. The story of how The Jedi met Anakin by chance and how Anakin managed to get off Tatooine and out of his poor upbringing and into the life of a jedi knight - in - training. The story of Obi-Wan training Anakin. The story of Anakin and Padme's romance. The story of how Palpatine manipulated the clone wars and how he ultimately controlled both sides in said clone wars. The story of Anakin's seduction into the dark side. The story of the way the "Old Republic" was. The story of how the Jedi fell. The story of how Darth Vader the human(after falling to the dark side) became Darth Vader the 'more-machine-now-than-man'. The story of how Luke and Leia were separated.
As for the 'no charm' thing...I think that's more to do with the fact that there's no clear person or people to root for throughout the PT the way there was with Luke/Leia/Han than with anything else. There were no characters to fall in love with instantly like that. The characters were more layered.
3."The whole concept of midichlorians ruined the whole concept of why the Jedi were Jedi"
People insist that in the OT it was at least implied that there were magical and/or mythical elements in 'the force' and the status of being a Jedi. The OT I know tells the story of how Luke and Leia are the only Jedi left after Obi-Wan and Yoda die and that they are Jedi because they are Anakin/Vader's offspring. This premise, which cannot be disputed as far as I can see, which is at the center of the OT, leaves no doubt that being a jedi, and having the ability to control the force, are biological in nature. So I don't understand how the concept of midichlorians ruined anything or even changed anything. The OT gave no reason to think being a Jedi wasn't simply a very rare biological condition whereby one had the ability to control the force. By my understanding, 'Midichlorian' is just a term, a name for living cells that exist in everyone, and those with a high number of them can control the force and therefore are Jedi. It doesn't change anything from my point of view other than to introduce a unit of measurement for how strong the force is in any given Jedi. The nature of being a Jedi, imo, wasn't altered at all from the OT to the PT...it's just that in the OT it was left to us to figure out after learning that Anakin/Vader is Luke's father and that Leah is his sister, and in the PT, TPM to be exact, it was explicitly said(by Qui-Gonn and Obi-wan to Anakin's mother).
4."A lot of the PT was irrelevant to the OT"
I think every last bit of it was relevant. Some say the pod race in TPM served no purpose. I say that it, along with the depiction of the slavery of Anakin and his mother, served the purpose of showing Anakin's beginnings, of illuminating the core of his character, of showing why later on he tended to show resistance to authority, why he tended to have a chip on his shoulder, and why feelings of inadequacy and repression born from not only being a slave but watching his mother be a slave might have given him a thirst for the power to destroy any and all of the forces that were responsible, directly or indirectly, for making his early life what it was. The pod race paid for his freedom and for the parts necessary to repair the ship that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had come in. The pod race was Anakin's ticket out of the enslaved poverty he was living in, and his ticket to the opportunity to make a better life for himself and for his mother. Also, having to leave his mother behind only made him hate the forces that held her captive even more, and this is shown later when his rage at her death causes him to go on a rampage to avenge her.
Some say that the politics of the Old Republic are irrelevant. I say that they were crucial to painting the picture of the galaxy before it was taken over by a dictatorship against its will. The Phantom Menace itself starts in the middle of the story. The Old Republic is peaceful and functioning. Planets have business with each other and disputes with each other. They trade with each other. They co-exist with each other. All of the political elements of the PT show us what LIFE was in the galaxy pre-empire. It gives us a clearer understanding of what the Rebel Alliance is fighting FOR in the OT, of what they feel was lost when Palpatine established the Empire, and what they hope to regain with a victory over the Empire.
Some say that the Anakin/Padme romance didn't need to be on screen so much. I say, if nothing else, it served the purpose of allowing us to see who Luke and Leia's mother was, which is relevant to the OT when you think about the fact that Luke and Leia DIDN'T know her. The fact that she, along with Bail Organa, and other senators at the time, started the Rebel Alliance, the group that won the hearts of so many in the OT with her children at the forefront, also adds a layer of poignancy.
Some even say that Order 66 and the Jedi Purge are irrelevant to the OT. The whole OT leads up to the return of the Jedi. The return of the Jedi takes on a new level of significance when you find out why they were gone, and when you actually see the Jedi getting executed at the end of ROTS. Likewise, Obi-Wan's exile to a cave on Tatooine and Yoda's exile to Dagobah are given much more weight when you see why they had to exile themselves, why they had absolutely no choice after Palpatine took over - it was either run and hide in obscure lands or be killed. They were forced to leave their lives as they knew them in failure. Their mistakes and misplaced trust had played into Palpatine's hands, and they would have to live with it for the rest of their exiled lives.
To me, the prequels add a whole of depth to the OT because they allow us to simply KNOW more about what is going on. When we see "Old Ben", we know why he seems so weary and tired and sad. When we see Vader, we know who he was as a young man before falling to the dark side. When we see Palpatine, we know how he got disfigured, and how he became Emperor. When see Luke being curious about his mother, we know who she was. When we see the Rebel Alliance, we know who started it and why, and we know exactly what the kind of Republic they're fighting for is. When we see that Leia is a princess, we know what she was a princess of and why. When we see "Old Ben" and others talk about this extinct people known as Jedi, we know who some of them were now - Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, young/younger Obi-Wan, young Anakin, the others on the Jedi council, how little children were being trained to be Jedi, etc - we know who they WERE now, and we know what they believed in, and what they fought for in their prime, and therefore we can notice the absence of the Jedi more, and when they 'return', there is that much more satisfaction.
I'm not saying the prequels are perfect. I don't find Jar-Jar quite as annoying as many do, but I do understand why many would question his purpose. I understand why many feel that the romantic dialog between Anakin and Padme was sometimes cheesy and wooden. I understand why many feel that Anakin's 'fall' happened too quickly. I understand why many feel that the PT was too 'kiddified'. But overall, I don't think any of this is so bad that it should ruin the PT. There's just too many great moments, imo - Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's 'arrival' on the trade federation ship at the beginning of TPM, the pod race, the Qui-Gon/Maul/Obi-Wan duel, Obi-Wan taking Anakin under his wing, the arena battle in AOTC, Yoda fighting Count Dooku, the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel, Vader rising in the suit for the first time, the Yoda/Palpetine duel, the Jedi-purge, etc.
I just think that the PT could've been a radically different set of films and it still wouldn't have been accepted and/or liked by a lot of people simply because they are interested in any Star Wars story that isn't the OT. Which is fine, I guess. There are plenty of people that love the original Star Trek series and don't care for any of the others. But don't rip the PT if you aren't interested in any Star Wars story outside of the OT. Perhaps Lucas's biggest mistake was his insistence on trying to make the OT and the PT into one thing...not wanting to release the Original OT on DVD, wanting to package all six together. I say this because I think a lot of people simply don't like the way Lucas has tried to re-center the whole story on Anakin. I can't help but think that if Lucas marketed the PT was simply a backstory to the OT, rather than try to make it one big saga, there may not be such venom against the PT. I personally like the idea of one big saga, but I can understand those who have been Star Wars fans from the beginning resenting Lucas's attempt to re-center the story. I also understand the resentment these fans have regarding the changes made in the special editions of the OT. I personally don't mind the changes so much - I think they offer an interesting alternate take on things - but I do think Lucas should have made the original OT available at the same time the special editions were released, or better yet, put them in the same package as double-sided dvds, instead of only doing so after fan outcry, because otherwise he is taking the choice away from us. I don't have a problem with him wanting to make changes to his films as much as I do with the fact that he wanted to force everyone into watching those versions of the films. And given the fact that the alterations he was trying to force everyone to watch were done mostly for the sake of continuity with the PT, I can understand how that would create a lot of resentment and backlash towards the PT.
But really, I think they were worthwhile films, and not nearly the pile of garbage so many make them out to be.
P.S.And just for reference, I'm 23 years old. I saw bits and pieces of the OT on TV when I was little, in the late 80s and early 90s, but I didn't really watch the OT beginning to end and become a fan until the first special editions(which didn't have that many changes in them) were released in theaters and then VHS in 1997. I saw the prequels in the the theater and I never had the bad reactions that many others did. My friends and I loved all of the prequels, and my appreciation of them has only grown, despite its flaws. I own the 2004 OT box set, burned copies of the Original OT dvds that were released after the enough fans demanded them(they were only added to the 2004 box set and I wasn't going to pay for something I already had so I got the Original OT discs from netflix and copied them), and the prequel dvds.
I wanted to address a few of the complaints I often hear about the PT that I disagree with. You can never enough points of view...
1."They weren't needed in the first place"/"There wasn't enough story left to tell after the OT to warrant them"/"The OT gave us all the information we needed"/"Any questions that were left unanswered in the OT were just curiosities and not important or relevant enough to the story to warrant prequels"
If "how did Anakin become Vader", "how did Luke and Leia get separated", "what happened to the Jedi", "how did the Emperor come into power", "what is the republic the rebel alliance speaks of", etc, are not big enough questions to warrant prequels, I don't know what are. There was so much vague backstory and unanswered questions in the OT, I don't see how you could love those films and NOT want to see the backstory filled out.
2."There's no story in the prequels, it's just a special effects showcase with no depth and no charm"
I don't understand this one. There is plenty of story in the prequels. The story of how Palpatine used a trade dispute and Anakin's niavete to jump-start his manipulation of the entire galaxy. The story of how The Jedi met Anakin by chance and how Anakin managed to get off Tatooine and out of his poor upbringing and into the life of a jedi knight - in - training. The story of Obi-Wan training Anakin. The story of Anakin and Padme's romance. The story of how Palpatine manipulated the clone wars and how he ultimately controlled both sides in said clone wars. The story of Anakin's seduction into the dark side. The story of the way the "Old Republic" was. The story of how the Jedi fell. The story of how Darth Vader the human(after falling to the dark side) became Darth Vader the 'more-machine-now-than-man'. The story of how Luke and Leia were separated.
As for the 'no charm' thing...I think that's more to do with the fact that there's no clear person or people to root for throughout the PT the way there was with Luke/Leia/Han than with anything else. There were no characters to fall in love with instantly like that. The characters were more layered.
3."The whole concept of midichlorians ruined the whole concept of why the Jedi were Jedi"
People insist that in the OT it was at least implied that there were magical and/or mythical elements in 'the force' and the status of being a Jedi. The OT I know tells the story of how Luke and Leia are the only Jedi left after Obi-Wan and Yoda die and that they are Jedi because they are Anakin/Vader's offspring. This premise, which cannot be disputed as far as I can see, which is at the center of the OT, leaves no doubt that being a jedi, and having the ability to control the force, are biological in nature. So I don't understand how the concept of midichlorians ruined anything or even changed anything. The OT gave no reason to think being a Jedi wasn't simply a very rare biological condition whereby one had the ability to control the force. By my understanding, 'Midichlorian' is just a term, a name for living cells that exist in everyone, and those with a high number of them can control the force and therefore are Jedi. It doesn't change anything from my point of view other than to introduce a unit of measurement for how strong the force is in any given Jedi. The nature of being a Jedi, imo, wasn't altered at all from the OT to the PT...it's just that in the OT it was left to us to figure out after learning that Anakin/Vader is Luke's father and that Leah is his sister, and in the PT, TPM to be exact, it was explicitly said(by Qui-Gonn and Obi-wan to Anakin's mother).
4."A lot of the PT was irrelevant to the OT"
I think every last bit of it was relevant. Some say the pod race in TPM served no purpose. I say that it, along with the depiction of the slavery of Anakin and his mother, served the purpose of showing Anakin's beginnings, of illuminating the core of his character, of showing why later on he tended to show resistance to authority, why he tended to have a chip on his shoulder, and why feelings of inadequacy and repression born from not only being a slave but watching his mother be a slave might have given him a thirst for the power to destroy any and all of the forces that were responsible, directly or indirectly, for making his early life what it was. The pod race paid for his freedom and for the parts necessary to repair the ship that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan had come in. The pod race was Anakin's ticket out of the enslaved poverty he was living in, and his ticket to the opportunity to make a better life for himself and for his mother. Also, having to leave his mother behind only made him hate the forces that held her captive even more, and this is shown later when his rage at her death causes him to go on a rampage to avenge her.
Some say that the politics of the Old Republic are irrelevant. I say that they were crucial to painting the picture of the galaxy before it was taken over by a dictatorship against its will. The Phantom Menace itself starts in the middle of the story. The Old Republic is peaceful and functioning. Planets have business with each other and disputes with each other. They trade with each other. They co-exist with each other. All of the political elements of the PT show us what LIFE was in the galaxy pre-empire. It gives us a clearer understanding of what the Rebel Alliance is fighting FOR in the OT, of what they feel was lost when Palpatine established the Empire, and what they hope to regain with a victory over the Empire.
Some say that the Anakin/Padme romance didn't need to be on screen so much. I say, if nothing else, it served the purpose of allowing us to see who Luke and Leia's mother was, which is relevant to the OT when you think about the fact that Luke and Leia DIDN'T know her. The fact that she, along with Bail Organa, and other senators at the time, started the Rebel Alliance, the group that won the hearts of so many in the OT with her children at the forefront, also adds a layer of poignancy.
Some even say that Order 66 and the Jedi Purge are irrelevant to the OT. The whole OT leads up to the return of the Jedi. The return of the Jedi takes on a new level of significance when you find out why they were gone, and when you actually see the Jedi getting executed at the end of ROTS. Likewise, Obi-Wan's exile to a cave on Tatooine and Yoda's exile to Dagobah are given much more weight when you see why they had to exile themselves, why they had absolutely no choice after Palpatine took over - it was either run and hide in obscure lands or be killed. They were forced to leave their lives as they knew them in failure. Their mistakes and misplaced trust had played into Palpatine's hands, and they would have to live with it for the rest of their exiled lives.
To me, the prequels add a whole of depth to the OT because they allow us to simply KNOW more about what is going on. When we see "Old Ben", we know why he seems so weary and tired and sad. When we see Vader, we know who he was as a young man before falling to the dark side. When we see Palpatine, we know how he got disfigured, and how he became Emperor. When see Luke being curious about his mother, we know who she was. When we see the Rebel Alliance, we know who started it and why, and we know exactly what the kind of Republic they're fighting for is. When we see that Leia is a princess, we know what she was a princess of and why. When we see "Old Ben" and others talk about this extinct people known as Jedi, we know who some of them were now - Qui-Gon, Mace Windu, young/younger Obi-Wan, young Anakin, the others on the Jedi council, how little children were being trained to be Jedi, etc - we know who they WERE now, and we know what they believed in, and what they fought for in their prime, and therefore we can notice the absence of the Jedi more, and when they 'return', there is that much more satisfaction.
I'm not saying the prequels are perfect. I don't find Jar-Jar quite as annoying as many do, but I do understand why many would question his purpose. I understand why many feel that the romantic dialog between Anakin and Padme was sometimes cheesy and wooden. I understand why many feel that Anakin's 'fall' happened too quickly. I understand why many feel that the PT was too 'kiddified'. But overall, I don't think any of this is so bad that it should ruin the PT. There's just too many great moments, imo - Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's 'arrival' on the trade federation ship at the beginning of TPM, the pod race, the Qui-Gon/Maul/Obi-Wan duel, Obi-Wan taking Anakin under his wing, the arena battle in AOTC, Yoda fighting Count Dooku, the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel, Vader rising in the suit for the first time, the Yoda/Palpetine duel, the Jedi-purge, etc.
I just think that the PT could've been a radically different set of films and it still wouldn't have been accepted and/or liked by a lot of people simply because they are interested in any Star Wars story that isn't the OT. Which is fine, I guess. There are plenty of people that love the original Star Trek series and don't care for any of the others. But don't rip the PT if you aren't interested in any Star Wars story outside of the OT. Perhaps Lucas's biggest mistake was his insistence on trying to make the OT and the PT into one thing...not wanting to release the Original OT on DVD, wanting to package all six together. I say this because I think a lot of people simply don't like the way Lucas has tried to re-center the whole story on Anakin. I can't help but think that if Lucas marketed the PT was simply a backstory to the OT, rather than try to make it one big saga, there may not be such venom against the PT. I personally like the idea of one big saga, but I can understand those who have been Star Wars fans from the beginning resenting Lucas's attempt to re-center the story. I also understand the resentment these fans have regarding the changes made in the special editions of the OT. I personally don't mind the changes so much - I think they offer an interesting alternate take on things - but I do think Lucas should have made the original OT available at the same time the special editions were released, or better yet, put them in the same package as double-sided dvds, instead of only doing so after fan outcry, because otherwise he is taking the choice away from us. I don't have a problem with him wanting to make changes to his films as much as I do with the fact that he wanted to force everyone into watching those versions of the films. And given the fact that the alterations he was trying to force everyone to watch were done mostly for the sake of continuity with the PT, I can understand how that would create a lot of resentment and backlash towards the PT.
But really, I think they were worthwhile films, and not nearly the pile of garbage so many make them out to be.
P.S.And just for reference, I'm 23 years old. I saw bits and pieces of the OT on TV when I was little, in the late 80s and early 90s, but I didn't really watch the OT beginning to end and become a fan until the first special editions(which didn't have that many changes in them) were released in theaters and then VHS in 1997. I saw the prequels in the the theater and I never had the bad reactions that many others did. My friends and I loved all of the prequels, and my appreciation of them has only grown, despite its flaws. I own the 2004 OT box set, burned copies of the Original OT dvds that were released after the enough fans demanded them(they were only added to the 2004 box set and I wasn't going to pay for something I already had so I got the Original OT discs from netflix and copied them), and the prequel dvds.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
PREQUEL EXTENDED VERSION PROJECT
Purpose: To put worthwhile deleted scenes back into the films, many of which were cut for running time and/or pacing issues.
***
ATTACK OF THE CLONES
1. Padme addresses the Senate
I think this one is crucial. To be honest, do we really see Padme do much as a politician? Not really. While Portman's acting in this scene isn't great, it's at least serviceable, and seems to bear some conviction on her part--I think it makes her character more substantial. Lucas cut it because he said the beginning of the film was too slow. She mentions the assassination attempt happening "an hour ago", so I imagine this scene would come either right before or right after the big meeting in Palpatine's office. I'd also advise ending the scene a bit early, and omitting Palpatine adjourning the Senate for the day. End on the reaction to Padme's speech.
2. Jedi Temple Analysis Room
I think I have to agree with Ben Burtt. Obi-Wan doesn't know anything when the scene starts, and has no further information when it's over. Also, his "I know where to find out where this came from!" at the end is a little ridiculous. As much as I love seeing more shit inside the temple, this is unnecessary.
3. Obi-Wan/Mace on Landing Platform
This was reworked with Yoda, so it really can't be used.
4. Extended Arrival on Naboo
No contest. The dialogue is a bit cheesy at first (and certainly deeper than your normal Star Wars conversations) but we really need to see this to make the relationship between Padme & Anakin (the most important one in the saga, arguably) more believable. It also shows the personal side of Padme, which is needed for audience sympathy as well. Again, while it may have slowed the film down for casual viewers, that's not who this project is meant for anyway. Keep in mind that part of this was used in the film, so it's a more complicated edit.
5. Padme's Parents' House
While the previous scene establishes more of Padme's worldview and estimation of her young but accomplished career, this one is much more important in giving us a family angle that really wasn't present in the OT outside of Luke's home life with his Aunt and Uncle. And I'd argue that this makes a nice contrast to those scenes from A New Hope.
I also think that brief coda in the kitchen has some really good acting from Portman, as you can see her struggling to keep her blossoming interest in Anakin at bay.
6. Padme's Bedroom
Settle down, GAF. I like the thing with the picture frames, for one thing. It's technology used not just for background noise, but for character development. I think much of the criticism of Portman's performance is a result of most her scenes being too plot driven--she's not often given a chance to go any deeper with her character, and with more to work with, she proves herself worthy of the task. One side note is that we may not want to put all three of these Naboo scenes back-to-back. Perhaps we can cut back to Obi-Wan's storyline for a scene in the middle of all this.
7. Dooku Interrogates Padme
Perhaps one of the more complicated issues we're facing: This scene was replaced with the one where Dooku speaks with the imprisoned Obi-Wan. Lucas claims that originally he liked drawing out the mystery of what had happened to Obi-Wan, but then felt the pace was picking up, so he deleted this scene and decided to get back to him sooner. What I'd like to try is maybe a mixture of these scenes? I think this one is longer, so maybe we can have him interrogating these two, and then reveal Obi-Wan soon after? I'd need to take a look at the scene that this was replaced with (Ch. 36, "Obi-Wan Captive") to see what we have to work with. And unless we remove the Droid Factory scene (as much as I think it's useless, I'm still uneasy about cutting anything), this would have to come after, and Ch. 36 may have to get bumped up (perhaps right after this?). To me it fleshes out Dooku a bit more, and makes you wonder if he's really evil or is just a political renegade.
8. Anakin and Padme on Trial
Apparently this was cut not only because it's associated with the previous scene (though really could have been placed after the Droid Factory anyway), but because it reveals too soon that Dooku is a "bad guy". I don't really get that, because all you see is him sitting next to Nute Gunray, which happens in the following arena scene. He doesn't even have any lines. Whether or not we keep the previous deleted scene, I think this could certainly go in, even if it's not very important.
***
Will try to get to Revenge of the Sith later today or tomorrow.
Purpose: To put worthwhile deleted scenes back into the films, many of which were cut for running time and/or pacing issues.
***
ATTACK OF THE CLONES
1. Padme addresses the Senate
I think this one is crucial. To be honest, do we really see Padme do much as a politician? Not really. While Portman's acting in this scene isn't great, it's at least serviceable, and seems to bear some conviction on her part--I think it makes her character more substantial. Lucas cut it because he said the beginning of the film was too slow. She mentions the assassination attempt happening "an hour ago", so I imagine this scene would come either right before or right after the big meeting in Palpatine's office. I'd also advise ending the scene a bit early, and omitting Palpatine adjourning the Senate for the day. End on the reaction to Padme's speech.
2. Jedi Temple Analysis Room
I think I have to agree with Ben Burtt. Obi-Wan doesn't know anything when the scene starts, and has no further information when it's over. Also, his "I know where to find out where this came from!" at the end is a little ridiculous. As much as I love seeing more shit inside the temple, this is unnecessary.
3. Obi-Wan/Mace on Landing Platform
This was reworked with Yoda, so it really can't be used.
4. Extended Arrival on Naboo
No contest. The dialogue is a bit cheesy at first (and certainly deeper than your normal Star Wars conversations) but we really need to see this to make the relationship between Padme & Anakin (the most important one in the saga, arguably) more believable. It also shows the personal side of Padme, which is needed for audience sympathy as well. Again, while it may have slowed the film down for casual viewers, that's not who this project is meant for anyway. Keep in mind that part of this was used in the film, so it's a more complicated edit.
5. Padme's Parents' House
While the previous scene establishes more of Padme's worldview and estimation of her young but accomplished career, this one is much more important in giving us a family angle that really wasn't present in the OT outside of Luke's home life with his Aunt and Uncle. And I'd argue that this makes a nice contrast to those scenes from A New Hope.
I also think that brief coda in the kitchen has some really good acting from Portman, as you can see her struggling to keep her blossoming interest in Anakin at bay.
6. Padme's Bedroom
Settle down, GAF. I like the thing with the picture frames, for one thing. It's technology used not just for background noise, but for character development. I think much of the criticism of Portman's performance is a result of most her scenes being too plot driven--she's not often given a chance to go any deeper with her character, and with more to work with, she proves herself worthy of the task. One side note is that we may not want to put all three of these Naboo scenes back-to-back. Perhaps we can cut back to Obi-Wan's storyline for a scene in the middle of all this.
7. Dooku Interrogates Padme
Perhaps one of the more complicated issues we're facing: This scene was replaced with the one where Dooku speaks with the imprisoned Obi-Wan. Lucas claims that originally he liked drawing out the mystery of what had happened to Obi-Wan, but then felt the pace was picking up, so he deleted this scene and decided to get back to him sooner. What I'd like to try is maybe a mixture of these scenes? I think this one is longer, so maybe we can have him interrogating these two, and then reveal Obi-Wan soon after? I'd need to take a look at the scene that this was replaced with (Ch. 36, "Obi-Wan Captive") to see what we have to work with. And unless we remove the Droid Factory scene (as much as I think it's useless, I'm still uneasy about cutting anything), this would have to come after, and Ch. 36 may have to get bumped up (perhaps right after this?). To me it fleshes out Dooku a bit more, and makes you wonder if he's really evil or is just a political renegade.
8. Anakin and Padme on Trial
Apparently this was cut not only because it's associated with the previous scene (though really could have been placed after the Droid Factory anyway), but because it reveals too soon that Dooku is a "bad guy". I don't really get that, because all you see is him sitting next to Nute Gunray, which happens in the following arena scene. He doesn't even have any lines. Whether or not we keep the previous deleted scene, I think this could certainly go in, even if it's not very important.
***
Will try to get to Revenge of the Sith later today or tomorrow.
OP
OP
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Sounds good so far. I agree with the additions so far, but think we should cut out the Droid Factory sequence, or at least shorten it, unless it's detrimental to the pacing.
God, I really want to find a way to cut the part where Obi-Wan visits Dex, but it actually is essential to the plot.
God, I really want to find a way to cut the part where Obi-Wan visits Dex, but it actually is essential to the plot.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
UPDATE: With regard to scene #1, I consulted the third draft of the screenplay, and it appears that Padme originally addressed the Senate right after the first scene, before the meeting at Palpatine's office. Unfortunately, some dialogue at the beginning with Palpatine actually announcing the news of her death (right before she shows up) must have been cut before filming.
It looks like several scenes were shuffled around. We may want to consult this when considering where the Dooku Interrogation scenes should go as well:
Star Wars Episode 2 Attack of the Clones Script Screen Play Screenplay
And I'm down with shortening the Droid Factory, but keep in mind we need to see Threepio getting his parts separated, because it's prominent during the final battle (though I wouldn't mind cutting some of his terrible lines
there).
Also, I love Dex! Especially the way he delivers that line "...and how big your pocket book is."
It looks like several scenes were shuffled around. We may want to consult this when considering where the Dooku Interrogation scenes should go as well:
Star Wars Episode 2 Attack of the Clones Script Screen Play Screenplay
And I'm down with shortening the Droid Factory, but keep in mind we need to see Threepio getting his parts separated, because it's prominent during the final battle (though I wouldn't mind cutting some of his terrible lines
there).
Also, I love Dex! Especially the way he delivers that line "...and how big your pocket book is."
OP
OP
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Couldn't you cut his sequence on the battlefield entirely, that way we wouldn't worry about his part in the Droid Factory?
I don't mind the character, but I hate how bad the effects look now. I could've sworn the Gungans looked better in TPM.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Well, yeah you could. But the main thing to worry about is messing with the music cues. I'm not sure it's worth it.
OP
OP
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
True. I'm going through the Sith scenes right now.
Shaak-Ti's Capture by Grevious
Kills a character which may a part of canon later, spoils Grevious' big reveal in the bridge sequence, and the animation isn't done yet. The exchanges between Obi-Wan and Anakin are entertaining though.
phanan
Blue Crack Addict
I really enjoy the scene with Dex.
I think 4, 5, and 6 are essential in fleshing out the relationship between Padme and Anakin, thereby making it more believable as to how it unfolds throughout the remainder of the film. I really liked those scenes.
I think 4, 5, and 6 are essential in fleshing out the relationship between Padme and Anakin, thereby making it more believable as to how it unfolds throughout the remainder of the film. I really liked those scenes.
OP
OP
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Now we're getting to the scenes from the Rebellion subplot. These are all essential and in finished form, too. Plus, it has another black guy, which makes the running total in the Star Wars Universe about 7.
Also, FUCKING ACKBAR is in one of the Rebellion scenes.
Also, FUCKING ACKBAR is in one of the Rebellion scenes.
OP
OP
LMP
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Speaking of Sith, how would you guys feel with inserting dialogue from Liam Neeson films to act as a voiceover when Yoda lands on Dagobah? It was hinted at in Clones and definitely at the end of Sith, but never happened.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Ehh...I'm really wary of getting too creative. I think inserting scenes that Lucas himself wrote and shot keeps the purity intact.
I don't even know if the Dagobah scene should be put back in, to be honest. It's a bit of a distraction from what's happening to the main characters.
Can you extract the Obi-Wan/Anakin stuff from the Shaak-Ti scene? Or is it all together?
I don't even know if the Dagobah scene should be put back in, to be honest. It's a bit of a distraction from what's happening to the main characters.
Can you extract the Obi-Wan/Anakin stuff from the Shaak-Ti scene? Or is it all together?
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
It's really too bad this was never shot, save for the end with Bail:
222 INT. POLIS MASSA-OBSERVATION DOME-NIGHT
On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.
YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is ...
QUI -GON: (V.O.) Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the
Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the
Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your
consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.
YODA: Eternal consciousness.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It
was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.
YODA: . . . to become one with the Force, and influence still have . . . A power greater
than all, it is.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of
self. No physical self.
YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I
gratefully become.
YODA thinks about this for a minute, then BAIL ORGANA enters the room and breaks
his meditation.
BAIL ORGANA: Excuse me, Master Yoda. Obi-Wan Kenobi has made contact.
222 INT. POLIS MASSA-OBSERVATION DOME-NIGHT
On the isolated asteroid of Polis Massa, YODA meditates.
YODA: Failed to stop the Sith Lord, I have. Still much to learn, there is ...
QUI -GON: (V.O.) Patience. You will have time. I did not. When I became one with the
Force I made a great discovery. With my training, you will be able to merge with the
Force at will. Your physical self will fade away, but you will still retain your
consciousness. You will become more powerful than any Sith.
YODA: Eternal consciousness.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself. It
was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills. It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed.
YODA: . . . to become one with the Force, and influence still have . . . A power greater
than all, it is.
QUI-GON: (V.O.) You will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of
self. No physical self.
YODA: A great Jedi Master, you have become, Qui-Gon Jinn. Your apprentice I
gratefully become.
YODA thinks about this for a minute, then BAIL ORGANA enters the room and breaks
his meditation.
BAIL ORGANA: Excuse me, Master Yoda. Obi-Wan Kenobi has made contact.
OP
OP
LMP
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That's fair. I just remember that it was the original intent, but they couldn't get Neeson because he was busy shooting Batman Begins.
It's a tough call, but I'll leave it to you and Lance, I guess.
It's all together, sadly.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
So that's it from Sith? I guess what we need to figure out now is what goes where. As with the Naboo stuff in Clones, we probably want the rebellion scenes a bit spaced out. I haven't scanned through that screenplay to see if they're in there.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Funny you guys are talking about this - I've been thinking about this kind of thing for a while. I had a some ideas in my head last summer(the last time I watched all six Star Wars films) that I never did anything with. I agree that a lot of those deleted scenes should have been left in the films. In particular, Yoda arriving on Dagobah and the Rebellion scenes. The first because I just think it adds some fluidity to how the story picks up in the OT, and the latter because I kind of can't believe they ever took those Rebellion scenes out of ROTS, considering they deal with the birth of the group that Luke/Leia/Han/etc would eventually belong to, the core protagonist group of the OT.
Another idea I had that may or may not fit with what you guys are talking about: Scrap TPM(since a lot of people seem to think a lot of it was unnecessary) and use the most meaningful/appropriate parts of it as black-and-white flashbacks during AOTC and ROTS. Now, when I was thinking about this in my head last year, I was envisioning the best parts of AOTC and ROTS being combined into one film, and then adding TPM scenes in black-and-white as flashbacks to it. Some examples of what I am thinking:
At the end of the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel in ROTS, after Obi-Wan's "you were the chosen one....you were my brother Anakin...I loved you" speech, when Anakin has started burning up, and Obi-Wan kind of looks away and winces and then looks directly at Anakin again, right there, flashback to that scene in TPM on the ship on Tatooine when Anakin and Obi-Wan are introduced for the first time:
Qui-Gon Jinn: Anakin Skywalker, meet Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Anakin Skywalker: Hi. You're a Jedi too! Pleased to meet you.
This would underscore the contrast between the wide-eyed and optimistic child Anakin once was, and the hate-filled man currently burning up.
Another...in AOTC, when Anakin finds his mother and she dies in his arms, flashback to the scene in TPM where Anakin is about to leave with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and he runs back to his mother:
Anakin Skywalker: I can't do it, Mom. I just can't do it.
Shmi Skywalker: Ani...
Anakin Skywalker: Will I ever see you again?
Shmi Skywalker: What does your heart tell you?
Anakin Skywalker: I hope so. Yes... I guess.
Shmi Skywalker: Then we will see each other again.
Anakin Skywalker: I will come back and free you, Mom. I promise.
Shmi Skywalker: Now, be brave and don't look back. Don't look back.
And then flash back to Anakin with his mother dead in his arms, and he loses it and kills all the Tuskens.
This would maybe add some more depth to what Anakin is feeling in this scene...guilt for having never come back to free her like he promised and not having seen her again, and anger at those who made such a good woman's life so miserable(Greedo for enslaving her, the husband she supposedly re-married who didn't seem like much of a prize[Uncle Owen's father, right?], and the Tuskens for killing her).
Another...in ROTS, when Obi-Wan realizes that it was probably Anakin who killed all the young padwans, flash back to the scene in TPM where Yoda warns Obi-Wan about training Anakin:
Master Yoda: Confer on you the level of Jedi Knight, the Council does. But agree on you taking this boy as your Padawan learner, I do not!
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Qui-Gon believed in him.
Master Yoda: The Chosen One, the boy may be. Nevertheless, grave danger I fear in his training.
Simply put, this would emphasize that Yoda was right all along about Anakin.
And another...at the beginning of AOTC, when Anakin sees Padme for the first time in ten years, flashback to the scene in TPM where he and Padme meet for the first time in Greedo's shop and Anakin and Padme have this interchange:
Anakin: Are you an angel?
Padme: What?
Anakin: An angel. I've heard the deep space pilots talk about them. They live on the moons of Iego, I think. They're the most beautiful creatures in the universe.
Padme: You're a funny little boy. How do you know so much?
Anakin: I listen to all the traders and star pilots who come through here. I'm a pilot, you know, and someday I'm going to fly away from this place.
By showing their first short meeting from ten years prior to the present, some weight is added to the crush/love for Padme that Anakin has supposedly been carrying around for those ten years, and to the idea that perhaps he is thinking that since he did in fact "fly away from this place" and start training to be a Jedi, maybe he has a better chance of impressing her.
That kind of thing. Obviously the Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/Darth Maul "Duel Of The Fates" and at least parts of the pod race should be flashed back to as well, though I'm not sure where. There are also others I haven't mentioned.
Anyway, just an idea I had.
Another idea I had that may or may not fit with what you guys are talking about: Scrap TPM(since a lot of people seem to think a lot of it was unnecessary) and use the most meaningful/appropriate parts of it as black-and-white flashbacks during AOTC and ROTS. Now, when I was thinking about this in my head last year, I was envisioning the best parts of AOTC and ROTS being combined into one film, and then adding TPM scenes in black-and-white as flashbacks to it. Some examples of what I am thinking:
At the end of the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel in ROTS, after Obi-Wan's "you were the chosen one....you were my brother Anakin...I loved you" speech, when Anakin has started burning up, and Obi-Wan kind of looks away and winces and then looks directly at Anakin again, right there, flashback to that scene in TPM on the ship on Tatooine when Anakin and Obi-Wan are introduced for the first time:
Qui-Gon Jinn: Anakin Skywalker, meet Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Anakin Skywalker: Hi. You're a Jedi too! Pleased to meet you.
This would underscore the contrast between the wide-eyed and optimistic child Anakin once was, and the hate-filled man currently burning up.
Another...in AOTC, when Anakin finds his mother and she dies in his arms, flashback to the scene in TPM where Anakin is about to leave with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, and he runs back to his mother:
Anakin Skywalker: I can't do it, Mom. I just can't do it.
Shmi Skywalker: Ani...
Anakin Skywalker: Will I ever see you again?
Shmi Skywalker: What does your heart tell you?
Anakin Skywalker: I hope so. Yes... I guess.
Shmi Skywalker: Then we will see each other again.
Anakin Skywalker: I will come back and free you, Mom. I promise.
Shmi Skywalker: Now, be brave and don't look back. Don't look back.
And then flash back to Anakin with his mother dead in his arms, and he loses it and kills all the Tuskens.
This would maybe add some more depth to what Anakin is feeling in this scene...guilt for having never come back to free her like he promised and not having seen her again, and anger at those who made such a good woman's life so miserable(Greedo for enslaving her, the husband she supposedly re-married who didn't seem like much of a prize[Uncle Owen's father, right?], and the Tuskens for killing her).
Another...in ROTS, when Obi-Wan realizes that it was probably Anakin who killed all the young padwans, flash back to the scene in TPM where Yoda warns Obi-Wan about training Anakin:
Master Yoda: Confer on you the level of Jedi Knight, the Council does. But agree on you taking this boy as your Padawan learner, I do not!
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Qui-Gon believed in him.
Master Yoda: The Chosen One, the boy may be. Nevertheless, grave danger I fear in his training.
Simply put, this would emphasize that Yoda was right all along about Anakin.
And another...at the beginning of AOTC, when Anakin sees Padme for the first time in ten years, flashback to the scene in TPM where he and Padme meet for the first time in Greedo's shop and Anakin and Padme have this interchange:
Anakin: Are you an angel?
Padme: What?
Anakin: An angel. I've heard the deep space pilots talk about them. They live on the moons of Iego, I think. They're the most beautiful creatures in the universe.
Padme: You're a funny little boy. How do you know so much?
Anakin: I listen to all the traders and star pilots who come through here. I'm a pilot, you know, and someday I'm going to fly away from this place.
By showing their first short meeting from ten years prior to the present, some weight is added to the crush/love for Padme that Anakin has supposedly been carrying around for those ten years, and to the idea that perhaps he is thinking that since he did in fact "fly away from this place" and start training to be a Jedi, maybe he has a better chance of impressing her.
That kind of thing. Obviously the Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan/Darth Maul "Duel Of The Fates" and at least parts of the pod race should be flashed back to as well, though I'm not sure where. There are also others I haven't mentioned.
Anyway, just an idea I had.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Yeah, as I said before I wanted to stay away from anything too extreme. Flashbacks just aren't something that have been used in Star Wars. Consider how out-of-place Anakin's nightmares seem when you see them, and it's clear that it's best to stick to the traditional. It also reeks of hitting people over the head with what are already well-planned mirrors and echoes that Lucas has already put in place. Scenes remind you of ones from other films, and even if that recognition is only subconscious to some, it makes the whole saga experience denser without having to highlight those connections.
Also, the reason we're not working on The Phantom Menace isn't because the film is worthless, but because there's not much to be done with it in terms of an extended version. After watching the deleted scenes, the only one I'd want to see back in there is the waterfall scene, which adds a nice little thrill at the end of the submarine sequence.
I don't know why you'd want to combine AOTC and Sith into one film, either. There's certainly enough great material to warrant three films, and if there are more than a handful of awful lines in TPM, they are peppered throughout a lot of otherwise good scenes. Unlike Jedi, there aren't whole sections of the film that deserve getting lopped off.
Also, the reason we're not working on The Phantom Menace isn't because the film is worthless, but because there's not much to be done with it in terms of an extended version. After watching the deleted scenes, the only one I'd want to see back in there is the waterfall scene, which adds a nice little thrill at the end of the submarine sequence.
I don't know why you'd want to combine AOTC and Sith into one film, either. There's certainly enough great material to warrant three films, and if there are more than a handful of awful lines in TPM, they are peppered throughout a lot of otherwise good scenes. Unlike Jedi, there aren't whole sections of the film that deserve getting lopped off.
OP
OP
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
Watch the intro videos on the Deleted Scenes if you want a better sense of the placement of each clip. Lucas or McCallum do a great job of putting them into perspective.
I actually agree with this, and I had some ideas of re-working the series as well. The flashback in black-and-white thing seems way out of place, but if it's given a Godfather Part II treatment, with parallel stories, that would make a little more sense.
There's a fan edit doing the prequel and original trilogy series' like this going on right now. The outline of the first film is up here: Star Wars: Renascent Intrigues the hell out of me.
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Aside from my usual rants about the prequel films and Sith's failing in general, the one thing I really would have liked to see would have been an expanded presence from General Grievous. I know a lot of people aren't big fans of his character, but I feel like, maybe even if he had been introduced in episode 2 in place of Dooku (someone I don't care for at all) and given a proper character arc, and made into more of a formidable villain in Sith, I'd have been a happy nerd. As much as I don't like the Clone Wars animated miniseries things from a few years back, Grievous was a badass in there, and I enjoyed him.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I don't know how you can't find Dooku intriguing. A former Jedi who's disappeared and formed a political faction that's at odds with the Republic? Even in his scene with the imprisoned Obi-Wan, he makes a legitimate case for his stance, and actually reveals the truth about the Sith's infiltration of the government (which neither Obi-Wan, Mace, nor Yoda are willing to believe). I thought Christopher Lee did a great job. I think his death should have come a bit later into Episode III, though, as he kind of appears and is dispatched with rather quickly.
What the hell is so interesting about Grievous? Having four arms?
As for the Star Wars: Renascent project, yeah it's interesting but it seems like such a wank. Who gives a shit? To modernize or give these films the Coppola treatment is to take away exactly what makes Star Wars so accessible and pure as myth. It's supposed to be a plot-driven opera that feels like an old serial. Those types of artsy, fractured narratives just don't belong with this kind of classic storytelling.
What the hell is so interesting about Grievous? Having four arms?
As for the Star Wars: Renascent project, yeah it's interesting but it seems like such a wank. Who gives a shit? To modernize or give these films the Coppola treatment is to take away exactly what makes Star Wars so accessible and pure as myth. It's supposed to be a plot-driven opera that feels like an old serial. Those types of artsy, fractured narratives just don't belong with this kind of classic storytelling.
OP
OP
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Blue Crack Supplier
I've always dug Dooku for that reason, too. That schism in the Jedi Order is hinted at with Qui-Gon's apparent loner status with the rest of the Council, which makes me hate even more how he was killed off in Menace. Most of the "conflict" in the Order is relegated to scenes with them being confused in a dark room doing jack shit until the Geonosis sequence.
There's so much material in Clones and Sith to that fits more with what Lucas is trying to do that it makes Menace seem like an extended prologue. How much of Menace can be applied to the rest of the trilogy, let alone the saga? Anakin joining the gang, meeting Padme, the introduction of the Republic? Besides the spectacle of the pod race, underwater chase, and closing sequence, what else is there? All that it means is that there's less time to establish the love story and what leads to the end of the Jedi Order and Republic.
I'm fine with Dooku being taken out that quickly to show how strong Anakin has become and as the first example of Palpatine's extreme influence over him. Hell, it would make more sense for Obi-Wan to be the one to do it, and experience this huge sense of doubt and moral conflict afterward. How cool would that be?
Grevious is apparently supposed to be a precursor to Vader... a human transferred over to robotic form. How anyone watching the movie fresh would know this, who knows? I never saw the Clone Wars shorts leading up to Sith either, so I was in the dark about him as well.
Yeah, but that's part of what makes fan-edits so interesting. I enjoy the more stream-lined approach that you're taking, but you've got to admit, that's an insanely creative idea to do that, you know? That's most of the allure of fan-edits anyway.
There's so much material in Clones and Sith to that fits more with what Lucas is trying to do that it makes Menace seem like an extended prologue. How much of Menace can be applied to the rest of the trilogy, let alone the saga? Anakin joining the gang, meeting Padme, the introduction of the Republic? Besides the spectacle of the pod race, underwater chase, and closing sequence, what else is there? All that it means is that there's less time to establish the love story and what leads to the end of the Jedi Order and Republic.
I'm fine with Dooku being taken out that quickly to show how strong Anakin has become and as the first example of Palpatine's extreme influence over him. Hell, it would make more sense for Obi-Wan to be the one to do it, and experience this huge sense of doubt and moral conflict afterward. How cool would that be?
Grevious is apparently supposed to be a precursor to Vader... a human transferred over to robotic form. How anyone watching the movie fresh would know this, who knows? I never saw the Clone Wars shorts leading up to Sith either, so I was in the dark about him as well.
Yeah, but that's part of what makes fan-edits so interesting. I enjoy the more stream-lined approach that you're taking, but you've got to admit, that's an insanely creative idea to do that, you know? That's most of the allure of fan-edits anyway.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Well, I'd argue that establishing Anakin's origin is pretty important. Seeing his humble beginnings? And a more "inner city" version of Tattooine than we've seen before. And the Anakin/Padme relationship is developed in that it begins as one servant having a crush on another. That scene on the Royal Naboo Cruiser where he gives her the necklace--fantastic acting from Portman and it does a lot for me in terms of selling their connection. Once Anakin finds out she's a Queen, I imagine it becomes a more grandiose fantasy in his mind, hence his nervousness at the beginning of Clones.
Also, while I know the whole Trade Federation blockade confuses and/or bores people, it's the seeds of Palpatine's grand scheme, so it's damn important. I agree that the Gungan/Naboo relationship thing isn't the best thing in the world, but it's an example of the symbiotics that Lucas was keen to introduce as a theme (and I think it's a great one).
And yes, the fan edits are creative, but towards what end? I don't mind reading about the connections between the films, as I said. It's interesting analysis. But trying to put it together into some kind of stew? Not for me.
Anyway, are you imagining this as a low-quality job? Because I'd love to be able to burn this as a DVD and show it to friends. I'm not talking dual-layer or anything, but we can certainly keep it at the max of a normal DVD, approx. 4.5 gigs, right?
Also, while I know the whole Trade Federation blockade confuses and/or bores people, it's the seeds of Palpatine's grand scheme, so it's damn important. I agree that the Gungan/Naboo relationship thing isn't the best thing in the world, but it's an example of the symbiotics that Lucas was keen to introduce as a theme (and I think it's a great one).
And yes, the fan edits are creative, but towards what end? I don't mind reading about the connections between the films, as I said. It's interesting analysis. But trying to put it together into some kind of stew? Not for me.
Anyway, are you imagining this as a low-quality job? Because I'd love to be able to burn this as a DVD and show it to friends. I'm not talking dual-layer or anything, but we can certainly keep it at the max of a normal DVD, approx. 4.5 gigs, right?
OP
OP
LMP
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lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I'll write up a chapter list for Clones soon, subject to approval of the committee, so to speak.
OP
OP
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
I am NOT a committee!
monkeyskin
Refugee
Not that this is related to reediting the PT, but this video got pointed out to me the other day. Basically, Hamish and Andy (two Aussie DJs), received an e-mail from a Steven Spiel one day and then later on received a phone call from a George Lupous. Getting as excited as you can imagine, they hooked the pair up to direct a short film. Behold!
The making of Universal Love
The making of Universal Love
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
ATTACK OF THE CLONES EXTENDED CUT
Here's what I've got, using the official Chapter List from the DVD:
1. Opening Logos
2. Attack of the Clones
3. Return to Coruscant
* DELETED SCENE: Padme Addresses the Senate (end with dissolve from crowd noise to...)
4. Chancellor's Meeting
5. Old Friends
6. Assassins
7. Speeder Chase
8. Into the Club
9. New Assignments
10. Traveling Incognito
11. Dex's Diner
12. Jedi Archives (sadly an informative discussion about Count Dooku either wasn't filmed or just didn't make the deleted scenes)
13. "Encouraged to Love"
14. Yoda & the Younglings
15. Return to Naboo CUT after first establishing shot and REPLACE WITH:
* DELETED SCENE: Extended Arrival on Naboo (2 min)
16. Audience with the Queen (1 min)
* DELETED SCENE: Padme's Parents' House (2:15 min)
* DELETED SCENE: Padme's Bedroom (1:15 min)
17. Kamino Arrival
18. Meeting Lama Su + ^^ 3 minutes
19. Stolen Kiss: 2 minutes
20. Inspecting the Clones: 3 minutes
21. Teasing a Senator: 2 minutes
22. Jango's Apartment: 3 minutes
23. Forbidden Love
24. Obi-Wan's Report
25. Nightmare
26. Obi-Wan vs. Jango
27. Back to Tattooine
28. Asteroid Chase
29. Lars' Homestead
30. Anakin's Search
31. Dooku's Separatist Plot
32. Tusken Camp
33. Out of Range
34. "You're Not All-Powerful"
35. Enemies Revealed
36. Obi-Wan Captive
37. Emergency Powers
38. Droid Factory
* DELETED SCENE: Dooku Interrogates Padme
* DELETED SCENE: Padme & Anakin on Trial
39. Love Pledge
40. The Arena
41. "This Party is Over"
42. Yoda's Cavalry
43. Clone War
44. War Room
45. Duel With Dooku
46. Master Yoda
47. "Well Done, Lord Tyrannus"
48. "Begun, The Clone War Has"
49. Secret Union
50. End Credits
A note: The first Naboo section runs over 6 minutes now, which is pretty long by Star Wars standards. That's how it looks in the script, and I'm not surprised they trimmed so much. One suggestion is to break it up by attaching Deleted Scene "Padme's Bedroom" to the beginning of Ch. 19 ("Stolen Kiss"). That might seem odd, but you see her packing a suitcase in the bedroom scene, so it's implied they're leaving (the scene headings are also labeled "Afternoon" and "Late Afternoon" respectively). This would make the first Naboo section just a little over 5 minutes, and the second one would run about 3 and a half. Another option is to attach both "Padme's Parents' House" and "Padme's Bedroom" to Ch. 19, which would make the first scene 3 minutes, and the second one 5 and a half. The latter one probably makes more sense, and it could be assumed that the distance from the capital to her parents' house is farther than it is to get from the Naberrie residence to the lake retreat anyway. It also breaks nicely with each block having two "locations".
Here's what I've got, using the official Chapter List from the DVD:
1. Opening Logos
2. Attack of the Clones
3. Return to Coruscant
* DELETED SCENE: Padme Addresses the Senate (end with dissolve from crowd noise to...)
4. Chancellor's Meeting
5. Old Friends
6. Assassins
7. Speeder Chase
8. Into the Club
9. New Assignments
10. Traveling Incognito
11. Dex's Diner
12. Jedi Archives (sadly an informative discussion about Count Dooku either wasn't filmed or just didn't make the deleted scenes)
13. "Encouraged to Love"
14. Yoda & the Younglings
15. Return to Naboo CUT after first establishing shot and REPLACE WITH:
* DELETED SCENE: Extended Arrival on Naboo (2 min)
16. Audience with the Queen (1 min)
* DELETED SCENE: Padme's Parents' House (2:15 min)
* DELETED SCENE: Padme's Bedroom (1:15 min)
17. Kamino Arrival
18. Meeting Lama Su + ^^ 3 minutes
19. Stolen Kiss: 2 minutes
20. Inspecting the Clones: 3 minutes
21. Teasing a Senator: 2 minutes
22. Jango's Apartment: 3 minutes
23. Forbidden Love
24. Obi-Wan's Report
25. Nightmare
26. Obi-Wan vs. Jango
27. Back to Tattooine
28. Asteroid Chase
29. Lars' Homestead
30. Anakin's Search
31. Dooku's Separatist Plot
32. Tusken Camp
33. Out of Range
34. "You're Not All-Powerful"
35. Enemies Revealed
36. Obi-Wan Captive
37. Emergency Powers
38. Droid Factory
* DELETED SCENE: Dooku Interrogates Padme
* DELETED SCENE: Padme & Anakin on Trial
39. Love Pledge
40. The Arena
41. "This Party is Over"
42. Yoda's Cavalry
43. Clone War
44. War Room
45. Duel With Dooku
46. Master Yoda
47. "Well Done, Lord Tyrannus"
48. "Begun, The Clone War Has"
49. Secret Union
50. End Credits
A note: The first Naboo section runs over 6 minutes now, which is pretty long by Star Wars standards. That's how it looks in the script, and I'm not surprised they trimmed so much. One suggestion is to break it up by attaching Deleted Scene "Padme's Bedroom" to the beginning of Ch. 19 ("Stolen Kiss"). That might seem odd, but you see her packing a suitcase in the bedroom scene, so it's implied they're leaving (the scene headings are also labeled "Afternoon" and "Late Afternoon" respectively). This would make the first Naboo section just a little over 5 minutes, and the second one would run about 3 and a half. Another option is to attach both "Padme's Parents' House" and "Padme's Bedroom" to Ch. 19, which would make the first scene 3 minutes, and the second one 5 and a half. The latter one probably makes more sense, and it could be assumed that the distance from the capital to her parents' house is farther than it is to get from the Naberrie residence to the lake retreat anyway. It also breaks nicely with each block having two "locations".
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
YLB, no comment?
Also, is the first tech step just to start ripping all the individual chapters? And are you using Mac or PC?
Also, is the first tech step just to start ripping all the individual chapters? And are you using Mac or PC?
OP
OP
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
I hadn't looked over it extensively until now, but yeah, it looks good. Any suggestions I have would come later in the editing process.
That's correct. I'm on a Mac, ripping with Handbrake, editing with Final Cut Pro.
That's correct. I'm on a Mac, ripping with Handbrake, editing with Final Cut Pro.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I think I have Handbrake somewhere, though I pretty much use Mac the Ripper.
So how is this going to work? Do we rip chapter by chapter? What format, what settings, etc?
So how is this going to work? Do we rip chapter by chapter? What format, what settings, etc?
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