The official 2005 World Series thread

[Hewson]

But Derek Lee's team went 4-158, so its hard to give an MVP award to a guy on that team.
Jones played with 7 little leaguers and an oft injured Chipper Jones in the lineup while PooHole played with a veritable modern day Murderers' Row featuring Eckstein, Edmonds, Walker and Sanders amongst others...he was just a cog.

 

[Chizip]

But Derek Lee's team went 4-158, so its hard to give an MVP award to a guy on that team.
Jones played with 7 little leaguers and an oft injured Chipper Jones in the lineup while PooHole played with a veritable modern day Murderers' Row featuring Eckstein, Edmonds, Walker and Sanders amongst others...he was just a cog.

Well thats why I think Pujols should win ahead of Lee.

Eckstein is part of a Murderer's Row? Rolen was out for pretty much the whole year, Walker played in half the games, Sanders missed a couple months, Edmonds played through injuries and had his worst year as a Cardinal. There were games this year where Yadier Molina was batting behind Pujols, that's how bad it got.

How does a guy batting .206 with RISP lead the league in RBI's? It's because he had way more chances with RISP than anybody else. So if Jones was getting far more RBI opportunities than Pujols, then you can't really say the rest of the offense wasn't doing their job.

 

[Hewson]

How does a guy batting .206 with RISP lead the league in RBI's?

Its cause he laps the field in Home runs...If PoohOoe hits as many HR's as Jones, he also wins the RBI title and the MVP.

Face it, most writers are gonna look strictly at triple crown stats, and Jones won 2 of those in the NL, Derek lee won the other.
Plus add in Jones' gold glove, an argument that so many have used to faver Arod over Ortiz (although somehow Arod didn't end up winning the gold glove...probably cause he's not the Al's best defensive 3b, but I digress) and it should be unanimous.
Jones with all the first place votes, Lee with all the 2nd( he got one of those all important to the MVP race shiny gold Arod wishes he had one gloves too, at Pujols' position no less), Barry Bonds 3rd(Headache started a letter writing campaign) and Pujols 4th.

 

[Chizip]

Its cause he laps the field in Home runs...If PoohOoe hits as many HR's as Jones, he also wins the RBI title and the MVP.

Face it, most writers are gonna look strictly at triple crown stats, and Jones won 2 of those in the NL, Derek lee won the other.
Plus add in Jones' gold glove, an argument that so many have used to faver Arod over Ortiz (although somehow Arod didn't end up winning the gold glove...probably cause he's not the Al's best defensive 3b, but I digress) and it should be unanimous.
Jones with all the first place votes, Lee with all the 2nd( he got one of those all important to the MVP race shiny gold Arod wishes he had one gloves too, at Pujols' position no less), Barry Bonds 3rd(Headache started a letter writing campaign) and Pujols 4th.

I agree that's what the writers are going to look at, and thats why Jones winning the MVP will be a crock. Do you honestly think Jones had a better offensive season than Pujols? You'd rather have a guy that goes for a homerun or nothing than a guy that consistently produces? If you look at every other offensive stat, Pujols cleans up. He has less home runs but a better slugging percentage, his OPS, which is widely considered the best measure of offensive success is over 100 points better, Pujols had 35 win shares to Jones' 22.

Offense is more than home runs, and when you look at all the stats, Jones is not even in the picture with Pujols offensively. Hell Jones' 22 win shares is tied for 21st in the league, that's the same amount as Brady Clark, who is also a center fielder.

It's going to be absurd when Jones wins the MVP.

 

[pub crawler]

Angels are going to sign Konerko.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

But Derek Lee's team went 4-158, so its hard to give an MVP award to a guy on that team.

Plus you wouldn't want me to sick my head in an oven, would you? Okay, maybe some of you would.

I'm glad Carpenter won the Cy Young. He was basically unbelievable this year.

I will cry when the Angels sign Konerko.

 

[Hewson]

Do you honestly think Jones had a better offensive season than Pujols?

No. Pujols had the better overall offensive season (but Jones won a gold glove so he gets all the Arod supporters' votes ).
But, the award is not "Best offensive player" its "Most valuable Player", and frankly the Braves would have been a lot worse off without the guy who puts a U where an E should be than the Cards would have been without the guy named for a group of anuses.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

albert pujols should be the MVP. i think we all saw in the playoffs that the cardinals aren't these world beaters that would have been a playoff team without Pujols.

he's the best player in the game, and without him his team would lose 10 to 15 more games. give him the damned MVP

 

[phanan]

the Braves would have been a lot worse off without the guy who puts a U where an E should be than the Cards would have been without the guy named for a group of anuses.

That's one way to describe it.

 

[Hewson]

.

he's the best player in the game, and without him his team would lose 10 to 15 more games. give him the damned MVP

And thank you for making my point cause if the Cards lose 10 more games without him, they still win their division, whereas if Andu Jones isn't on the Braves and they lose 10 more games (I'd venture more like 18-20), they are golfing a week earlier.

 

[Chizip]

If the Cardinals didn't have Pujols this year they do not make the playoffs. He was the one constant threat in the lineup all year, everybody else was in and out with injuries.

Did you look at the win shares? 35 for Pujols, 22 for Andrew Jones. So if you replace Pujols production with Jones production in terms of win shares, and the Cardinals don't win their division. So with Pujols they win by 11 games, with Jones, a freaking MVP candidate, they would have been 2 games behind. Replace Pujols with just an average guy and they for sure dont make the playoffs.

Andruw Jones 22 win shares wouldnt be as hard to make up. As I said before freaking Brady Clark had 22 win shares. The 22 win shares would be the least by any MVP of all time.

You should value the Win Share statistic since it was invented by Bill James who is currently on the Red Sox payroll.

 

[speedracer]

You should value the Win Share statistic since it was invented by Bill James who is currently on the Red Sox payroll.

This is true. Bill James also thought that closer-by-committee was a good idea.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

And thank you for making my point cause if the Cards lose 10 more games without him, they still win their division, whereas if Andu Jones isn't on the Braves and they lose 10 more games (I'd venture more like 18-20), they are golfing a week earlier.

and if lance berkman doesn't come back from injury houston doesn't make the playoffs, yet alone the world series

and if barry bonds is healthy the entire season the giants make the playoffs

blah blah blah

give it to albert.

 

[Hewson]

You should value the Win Share statistic since it was invented by Bill James who is currently on the Red Sox payroll.

You need another shovel, cause you're really digging hard.

How about the amount of popcorn indirectly spilled when fans bounced out of their seats when Jones or Pujols hit a long drive and the janitorial cost to clean it up?

 

[Chizip]

You need another shovel, cause you're really digging hard.

How about the amount of popcorn indirectly spilled when fans bounced out of their seats when Jones or Pujols hit a long drive and the janitorial cost to clean it up?

So you're saying the Win Shares statistic is not a good tool in judging a players worth to their team? That is one of the main statistics Bill James uses to determine a value of a player.

 

[Hewson]

I'm saying you're really looking deep for anything to support your boy, when the writers are gonna take a much simpler approach and vote for the worthy candidate who can't spell his first name properly.

 

[Hewson]

Angels are going to sign Konerko.

2 words for Northern Mexico: Mo Vaughn

 

[Chizip]

I'm saying you're really looking deep for anything to support your boy, when the writers are gonna take a much simpler approach and vote for the worthy candidate who can't spell his first name properly.

im not really looking that deep. Win Shares is THE stat anybody should use to measure the value of a baseball player to his team. quoted directly from Bill James

Add these up, and you can see that Win Shares are a great player comparison tool. I like using them for Hall of Fame discussions, or MVP arguments.

Pujols was 1st in the league with a win share of 35
Jones was tied for 21st in the league with a win share of 22

The people at baseball prospectus say because of this Jones shouldn't even be an after thought for MVP.

But you're right, most writers will just look at home runs and give it to Jones, making it one of the most absurd MVP's of all time.

 

[Hewson]

How many MVP votes does Bill James get?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

How many MVP votes does Bill James get?

a big fat honkin zero

 

[Hewson]

What does Bill James think of Arod and his 6 win share beating out Big Papi and his 77 win share for AL MVP?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

bill james thinks it's outrageous.

headache thinks it's the right call.

i think we can all agree, by the closeness of the vote, that Ortiz being a DH probably cost him the MVP.

i personaly would have placed travis hafner third in the voting, but eh... what do i know.

 

[Hewson]

Obviously the gold glove was the difference.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

in a side note, and in a stroke of genius, steve phillips has declared that konerko and damon are the best available free agents.

and people wonder why he's called an expert... i certainly couldn't have figured that one out on my own. good thing we've got steve around to help us out.

 

[Hewson]

What Kevin Millar isn't at the top of the list?

 

[Hewson]

Obvioiusly pubcrawler gets a vote, that would explain Vlad getting 1 first place vote.

 

[pub crawler]

2 words for Northern Mexico: Mo Vaughn

3 words for "Red Sox Nation" (I think it's fun to use that lame term ): Your boy loses.

 

[Hewson]

(I think it's fun to use that lame term ):

You want lame, 2 more words: "Rally Monkey"

 

[pub crawler]

Obvioiusly pubcrawler gets a vote, that would explain Vlad getting 1 first place vote.

No, I'm actually realistic and, add to that, there is no West Coast Sports Network to influence my thinking.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You want lame, 2 more words: "Rally Monkey"