Random TV Thread II: Television, Continued - Page 11

cobl04 · 09-27-2011, 07:48 AM

I'm genuinely surprised you had any for me in the first place

Lancemc · 09-27-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerhour24

I've been waiting on Luck for a long time, and damn from the looks of it I don't think I've ever seen a series with more varied/cinematic camera work, well done so far.

Thrillingly visual television. The strides the entire medium is making with every new major series are really exciting. One of the main reasons I've been excited about this series for almost two years. Milch is going to bring the excellence, unquestionably, so that alone made this the series to watch. Then apply 21st Century Michael Mann and give him full reign over all the major filmmaking decisions (i.e. cutting, camera, actors, music, so on) we should be looking at a wholly modern cinematic approach to television that we haven't quite seen yet. Hopefully. Of course there have been so many outstanding examples of truly visual television recently, a trend that started a long time ago of course with Twin Peaks. But just the past few years we've seen David Simon's work take on a wonderful aesthetic, Deadwood and its use of natural lighting, Mad Men is exquisitely shot - taking its visual grammar from classic Hollywood among other sources, mini-series like Todd Haynes' Mildred Pierce, a show like Louie which has some of the most refreshing visual instincts of any airing series... and of course Breaking Bad, the current front-runner in cinematic storytelling on the small screen. So much great stuff. That Luck teaser almost gave me goosebumps from the sheer excitement though.

bono_man2002 · 09-27-2011, 08:00 PM

Friends was craptacualar compared to Seinfeld. I struggle to find any bad episode of the show where as Friends I do admit I enjoy more nowdays then when it was originally on air, but Its never appealed to me as much as Seinfeld.

powerhour24 · 09-27-2011, 10:26 PM

Well said Lance.

LMP · 09-28-2011, 09:04 PM

The Friends/Seinfeld comparison is about as solid of a barometer for judging one's comedic sensibilities. Not in a good vs. bad sense, but just to see where they're coming from.

And Lance, very good points, and I'd add Friday Night Lights to that conversation. I haven't seen a network television series fully embrace the verite aesthetic as wholeheartedly as FNL. Parts of it are obviously digitally shot while some evoke blown out 16mm as well. Bringing it back to the Luck/Mann discussion, Peter Berg's a protege of Mann's and you can see elements of it in the incorporation of the soundtrack to the narrative and the core film grammar. It's truly wonderful stuff.

cobl04 · 09-28-2011, 09:31 PM

Did you like Friends lmp? I'm being a bit facetious. Seinfeld is probably the better show (which is why I own the entire series and not one season of Friends) but that doesn't mean Friends is the pit of comedy. I still get a lot of laughs and enjoyment out of the reruns. Ross fucking up his spray tan is one of the things I've laughed hardest at, and could easily have been a Seinfeld gag.

LMP · 09-28-2011, 09:54 PM

I've enjoyed bits from Friends, it's just not for me. Again, I wasn't trying to say that "liking x means you're cool and liking y means you're an asshole," only that they operate with different styles of humor.

Lancemc · 09-28-2011, 10:10 PM

Fuck, it was a huge oversight on my part. FNL is fucking beautiful. Have always thought so even if I still haven't gotten terribly into the series yet myself.

LMP · 09-28-2011, 11:47 PM

There's a stunning level of naturalism at play that's only bolstered by a classical TV narrative structure that I find riveting.

There was an argument on a past episode of Battleship Pretension regarding The Sopranos or The Wire as the Greatest Series of All-Time. David's argument was that while The Wire is masterfully done, it acts more as an extended mini-series and is always building toward its grand narrative, while The Sopranos actively exploits television conceits and expounds upon them. Yes, there are series, season and mini-arcs, but also episodes riffing on a singular theme. Granted, I haven't seen either series so I can't say, but it's a brilliant argument.

Chuck Klosterman wrote a piece on Grantland vouching for Breaking Bad as the Greatest Series of All-Time versus Mad Men, The Sopranos and The Wire. Again, I can't weigh in on it, but how can one judge objective "greatness" on an ongoing narrative? Plus, he discounts network television right off of the bat. I don't think network television can be compared to a cable series due to the restrictions on content and demands on season-length (Sorkin's 88-episode run on 4 seasons of The West Wing roughly equals 9 seasons of worth of episodes of The Sopranos). They're not part of the same discussion.

Lancemc · 09-28-2011, 11:54 PM

Thanks for posting the link to that piece. I saw it brought up a while back and never got around to actually reading it. Will surely do so now.

Anyway, The Sopranos is my favorite television series ever, and I don't see that changing any time soon. It simply gets it all so right, and everything continues to be judged against it. Almost isn't fair.

LMP · 09-29-2011, 12:01 AM

No problem. After I finish FNL, I'll either hit up The Wire, The Sopranos or Twin Peaks as my next TV drama.

Lance, what would you consider to be the best network television series? Same question for anyone else.

Lancemc · 09-29-2011, 12:09 AM

I honestly have no idea. I'm not nearly a frequent enough television watcher to even come up with a list in my head I could cull from. Arrested Development count? Probably that.

Also, just read that B.B. article. Makes a solid argument, yet at the same times pinpoints a lot of what makes The Sopranos so fucking brilliant as a counter. Also a lot of the reason I'm not in love with The Wire as so many others are.

GirlsAloudFan · 09-29-2011, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMP

Lance, what would you consider to be the best network television series? Same question for anyone else.

Seinfeld, pretty easily for me.

LOST has to be in the conversation as well.

kramwest1 · 09-29-2011, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMP

Lance, what would you consider to be the best network television series? Same question for anyone else.

All In The Family?

PhilsFan · 09-29-2011, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMP

No problem. After I finish FNL, I'll either hit up The Wire, The Sopranos or Twin Peaks as my next TV drama.

Lance, what would you consider to be the best network television series? Same question for anyone else.

I think you have to do The Wire. I spent my spring semester going through that and do not regret it for a second.

I loved that Klosterman piece, despite the absurdity of trying to declare one greater than the others. He hit the right notes in describing the series.

monkeyskin · 09-29-2011, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LMP

No problem. After I finish FNL, I'll either hit up The Wire, The Sopranos or Twin Peaks as my next TV drama.

Why not throw in Breaking Bad and rotate season by season? It's how I've been playing catch up lately and it stops any show from going stale. Plus they were intended stopping points.

I just finished season one of Twin Peaks. Most enjoyable, but season 2 is at the bottom if my to do pile.

LMP · 09-29-2011, 12:48 AM

Sitcoms should totally count. The Simpsons at its peak belongs in the conversation. Saturday Night Live based solely upon its '70s and mid- to late '80s runs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyskin

Why not throw in Breaking Bad and rotate season by season? It's how I've been playing catch up lately and it stops any show from going stale. Plus they were intended stopping points.

I just finished season one of Twin Peaks. Most enjoyable, but season 2 is at the bottom if my to do pile.

That's a great point. I forgot that Breaking Bad's on Instant. I've debated going on a rotation, since I end up getting wrapped up in a narrative then burning myself out by the end.

lazarus · 09-29-2011, 02:26 AM

I've never seen a single episode of Breaking Bad or The Sopranos, so I'm a bit behind the curve in this discussion.

As much as I love Mad Men, not sure I'm ready to proclaim it a serious contender for Greatest EVAR.

While it may seem obvious or mainstream to suggest something like LOST, what really impresses about the show is how much it had to offer: aside from being one of the most gripping/entertaining entertainments I've ever seen, they really did break some barriers w/r/t narrative experimentation and confounding audience expectations, at far as the small screen is concerned. And for network television, that's even more impressive. It was cast brilliantly for the most part, and we have a good number of characters that worked on both iconic and detailed levels. It was at various times funny, suspenseful, moving, and its moral/ethical/philosophical questions were not necessarily complex but were still refreshing to see on a show like this. The show wasn't perfect episode-to-episode and it had its issues but when it was firing on all cylinders (like in The Constant) there really wasn't anything like it.

I think The Prisoner is another one that should be considered; while it didn't have that long of a run, the amount of creative control held by Patrick McGoohan enabled him to really explore some fascinating stuff on his terms, and the final couple episodes are high watermarks in television history, something akin to when Dylan went electric and stream-of-consciousness.

GirlsAloudFan · 09-29-2011, 02:29 AM

Well said, re: LOST.

Iconic, indeed.

I also have never seen The Sopranos, by the way. Will someday.

PhilsFan · 09-29-2011, 02:37 AM

I have not seen the Sopranos or Lost. I will never, ever watch Lost.

09-27-2011, 07:48 AM	#201
cobl04 45:33 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: East Point to Shaolin Posts: 59,235 Local Time: 11:59 AM	I'm genuinely surprised you had any for me in the first place __________________

09-29-2011, 02:37 AM	#220
PhilsFan Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Philadelphia Posts: 19,218 Local Time: 08:59 PM	I have not seen the Sopranos or Lost. I will never, ever watch Lost. __________________

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09-27-2011, 08:00 PM	#203
bono_man2002 Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: In the wrong band Posts: 28,506 Local Time: 11:59 AM	Friends was craptacualar compared to Seinfeld. I struggle to find any bad episode of the show where as Friends I do admit I enjoy more nowdays then when it was originally on air, but Its never appealed to me as much as Seinfeld.

09-27-2011, 10:26 PM	#204
powerhour24 ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 11,646 Local Time: 08:59 PM	Well said Lance.

09-28-2011, 09:04 PM	#205
LMP Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 37,609 Local Time: 06:59 PM	The Friends/Seinfeld comparison is about as solid of a barometer for judging one's comedic sensibilities. Not in a good vs. bad sense, but just to see where they're coming from. And Lance, very good points, and I'd add Friday Night Lights to that conversation. I haven't seen a network television series fully embrace the verite aesthetic as wholeheartedly as FNL. Parts of it are obviously digitally shot while some evoke blown out 16mm as well. Bringing it back to the Luck/Mann discussion, Peter Berg's a protege of Mann's and you can see elements of it in the incorporation of the soundtrack to the narrative and the core film grammar. It's truly wonderful stuff.

09-28-2011, 09:31 PM	#206
cobl04 45:33 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: East Point to Shaolin Posts: 59,235 Local Time: 11:59 AM	Did you like Friends lmp? I'm being a bit facetious. Seinfeld is probably the better show (which is why I own the entire series and not one season of Friends) but that doesn't mean Friends is the pit of comedy. I still get a lot of laughs and enjoyment out of the reruns. Ross fucking up his spray tan is one of the things I've laughed hardest at, and could easily have been a Seinfeld gag.

09-28-2011, 09:54 PM	#207
LMP Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 37,609 Local Time: 06:59 PM	I've enjoyed bits from Friends, it's just not for me. Again, I wasn't trying to say that "liking x means you're cool and liking y means you're an asshole," only that they operate with different styles of humor.

09-28-2011, 10:10 PM	#208
Lancemc Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ba Sing Se Posts: 17,691 Local Time: 08:59 PM	Fuck, it was a huge oversight on my part. FNL is fucking beautiful. Have always thought so even if I still haven't gotten terribly into the series yet myself.

09-28-2011, 11:47 PM	#209
LMP Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 37,609 Local Time: 06:59 PM	There's a stunning level of naturalism at play that's only bolstered by a classical TV narrative structure that I find riveting. There was an argument on a past episode of Battleship Pretension regarding The Sopranos or The Wire as the Greatest Series of All-Time. David's argument was that while The Wire is masterfully done, it acts more as an extended mini-series and is always building toward its grand narrative, while The Sopranos actively exploits television conceits and expounds upon them. Yes, there are series, season and mini-arcs, but also episodes riffing on a singular theme. Granted, I haven't seen either series so I can't say, but it's a brilliant argument. Chuck Klosterman wrote a piece on Grantland vouching for Breaking Bad as the Greatest Series of All-Time versus Mad Men, The Sopranos and The Wire. Again, I can't weigh in on it, but how can one judge objective "greatness" on an ongoing narrative? Plus, he discounts network television right off of the bat. I don't think network television can be compared to a cable series due to the restrictions on content and demands on season-length (Sorkin's 88-episode run on 4 seasons of The West Wing roughly equals 9 seasons of worth of episodes of The Sopranos). They're not part of the same discussion.

09-28-2011, 11:54 PM	#210
Lancemc Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ba Sing Se Posts: 17,691 Local Time: 08:59 PM	Thanks for posting the link to that piece. I saw it brought up a while back and never got around to actually reading it. Will surely do so now. Anyway, The Sopranos is my favorite television series ever, and I don't see that changing any time soon. It simply gets it all so right, and everything continues to be judged against it. Almost isn't fair.

09-29-2011, 12:01 AM	#211
LMP Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 37,609 Local Time: 06:59 PM	No problem. After I finish FNL, I'll either hit up The Wire, The Sopranos or Twin Peaks as my next TV drama. Lance, what would you consider to be the best network television series? Same question for anyone else.

09-29-2011, 12:09 AM	#212
Lancemc Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ba Sing Se Posts: 17,691 Local Time: 08:59 PM	I honestly have no idea. I'm not nearly a frequent enough television watcher to even come up with a list in my head I could cull from. Arrested Development count? Probably that. Also, just read that B.B. article. Makes a solid argument, yet at the same times pinpoints a lot of what makes The Sopranos so fucking brilliant as a counter. Also a lot of the reason I'm not in love with The Wire as so many others are.

09-29-2011, 02:26 AM	#218
lazarus Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 42,273 Local Time: 04:59 PM	I've never seen a single episode of Breaking Bad or The Sopranos, so I'm a bit behind the curve in this discussion. As much as I love Mad Men, not sure I'm ready to proclaim it a serious contender for Greatest EVAR. While it may seem obvious or mainstream to suggest something like LOST, what really impresses about the show is how much it had to offer: aside from being one of the most gripping/entertaining entertainments I've ever seen, they really did break some barriers w/r/t narrative experimentation and confounding audience expectations, at far as the small screen is concerned. And for network television, that's even more impressive. It was cast brilliantly for the most part, and we have a good number of characters that worked on both iconic and detailed levels. It was at various times funny, suspenseful, moving, and its moral/ethical/philosophical questions were not necessarily complex but were still refreshing to see on a show like this. The show wasn't perfect episode-to-episode and it had its issues but when it was firing on all cylinders (like in The Constant) there really wasn't anything like it. I think The Prisoner is another one that should be considered; while it didn't have that long of a run, the amount of creative control held by Patrick McGoohan enabled him to really explore some fascinating stuff on his terms, and the final couple episodes are high watermarks in television history, something akin to when Dylan went electric and stream-of-consciousness.

09-29-2011, 02:29 AM	#219
GirlsAloudFan Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 26,588 Local Time: 06:59 PM	Well said, re: LOST. Iconic, indeed. I also have never seen The Sopranos, by the way. Will someday.