Random Music Talk CXVIII: Grabbing America By The...

[LuckyNumber7]

I don't understand the insistence here, Ax. Nobody is suggesting that bands don't struggle to get by. I'm sure everyone here understands that a band, even a successful one, struggles to make money and stay in music.

I firstly showed my irritation with a thing of journalism and you immediately jumped to the conclusion that I was undermining an artist's ability to pay up. All I was doing was complaining about the article title.

 

[cobl04]

You're all talking past each other. Ax is talking about small local bands for whom this would be crippling. Hewson is talking about huge acts who wouldn't even notice the extra $$$.


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[DaveC]

why would small local bands for whom this would be crippling be going on international tours requiring visas in the first place?

 

[martha]

They do, though. Hookworms, a small English band had to cancel a tour because of visa delays. It cost them all kinds of money.


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[gump]

Los Campesinos!, not even that small a band, have said they don't tour more often due to money. And they play reasonably large venues.


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[Axver]

I don't understand the insistence here, Ax. Nobody is suggesting that bands don't struggle to get by. I'm sure everyone here understands that a band, even a successful one, struggles to make money and stay in music.

I firstly showed my irritation with a thing of journalism and you immediately jumped to the conclusion that I was undermining an artist's ability to pay up. All I was doing was complaining about the article title.

My last post was mainly with regards to Niels acting as if $100 is nothing. It may not be the make-or-break point (another straw on the camel's back perhaps), but it's unhelpful. It's literally a decent dinner or an OK night's sleep for the whole band, rather than Macca's or some dude's floor.

why would small local bands for whom this would be crippling be going on international tours requiring visas in the first place?

Because they do all the time? Seriously, this is the case for a lot of international touring acts who play in clubs that hold 200-300 people (especially if you're only drawing 50-100 to that venue!). Either you tour out of the love of it and hope your loss is as small as possible, or you're expecting to enhance your profile for future tours.

Hell, even some halfway recognisable names don't do too well. I know Chelsea Wolfe's one and only tour of Australia did poorly. (No prizes for guessing why she didn't do any sideshows when MONA brought her back for their festival.)

 

[Hewson]

You're all talking past each other. Ax is talking about small local bands for whom this would be crippling. Hewson is talking about huge acts who wouldn't even notice the extra $$$.

No I'm not.

 

[nielsgov]

My last post was mainly with regards to Niels acting as if $100 is nothing. It may not be the make-or-break point (another straw on the camel's back perhaps), but it's unhelpful. It's literally a decent dinner or an OK night's sleep for the whole band, rather than Macca's or some dude's floor.

Well, I basically agree with this. It's definitely unhelpful for smaller acts but it's not going to stop them from attempting a tour in the US.

And I think we can all agree that the article was clickbait bullshit. Especially because they mentioned huge acts like Drake and Radiohead.

 

[Axver]

Hahaha yeah Drake and Radiohead don't exactly give a shit about this price hike.

 

[BVS]

What Dave said, if you're still playing for bar take, you're not ready to tour abroad.


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[Axver]

What Dave said, if you're still playing for bar take, you're not ready to tour abroad.


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So U2 should never have toured London in 1979, huh?

 

[BVS]

So U2 should never have toured London in 1979, huh?

Come on Ax, let's not pretend 1979(or whatever year) is the same as 2016.


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[Axver]

Come on Ax, let's not pretend 1979(or whatever year) is the same as 2016.


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They were playing for bar takings at some venues though, and back then albums were where the big money lay, not touring. Now, as shit as the margins are on touring, it's going to comprise a larger proportion of your income than it would've in 1979.

(My understanding of whether you get door or bar takings is that it comes down to venue policy, how good a promoter/manager you have, etc.)

 

[nielsgov]

This is one of my favorite songs of 2016. Weird videoclip though.

 

[BVS]

They were playing for bar takings at some venues though, and back then albums were where the big money lay, not touring. Now, as shit as the margins are on touring, it's going to comprise a larger proportion of your income than it would've in 1979.



(My understanding of whether you get door or bar takings is that it comes down to venue policy, how good a promoter/manager you have, etc.)

I'm sure it's different in different regions, but when I was playing one rule of thumb was if you're still playing for share don't leave Texas.

Bands with no following play for share, if you can't get a decent crowd to come out why should the venue pay you. Now if you play a certain genre that does better in different regions then that's different, but in 2016 you'll know where you're popular. But if you're still so small that venues don't trust you'll draw even a decent crowd, especially in the era of social media, then you probably shouldn't venture out oversees yet.


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[Joey788]

The artists that I think this will hurt the most are those looking for showcase opportunities in the U.S. How many bands had a breakthrough moment at a SXSW or CMJ that they may have to skip now?

Sure, a trip to the U.S. may not be financially smart at that point in the band's career, but the buzz they can generate at a showcase or festival may help generate a fan base in the long run. It's an investment for the future.

 

[Mack_Again]

Its all about exposure, guys. it really is.

 

[Hewson]

Its all about exposure, guys. it really is.

 

[gareth brown]

I'm sure it's different in different regions, but when I was playing one rule of thumb was if you're still playing for share don't leave Texas.

Bands with no following play for share, if you can't get a decent crowd to come out why should the venue pay you. Now if you play a certain genre that does better in different regions then that's different, but in 2016 you'll know where you're popular. But if you're still so small that venues don't trust you'll draw even a decent crowd, especially in the era of social media, then you probably shouldn't venture out oversees yet.

Good post

 

[martha]

I'll hook you up tomorrow if no one else is able.

 

[bono_212]

Sorry, World series distracted me.

 

[martha]

I know. It was a worthy distraction. I waited.

 

[PhilsFan]

I must say my weeklong vacation from Free Your Horseshoe Theory has been quite nice.

 

[Lancemc]

Anyone spending a lot of time with the Solange album?

 

[LemonMelon]

I need to spend more time with it. I liked it more than Lemonade.

 

[Lancemc]

For sure. There's a lot there and its all pretty great.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I must say my weeklong vacation from Free Your Horseshoe Theory has been quite nice.

I wish I had the willpower to do the same.

 

[Mack_Again]

Anybody checking out that Opeth album?

 

[Joey788]

I did. Really good album. Some of my favorites are the title track, The Wilde Flowers and Chrysalis. Loses a bit of steam towards the end but I think it was better than their last couple of records.

 

[Axver]

I couldn't tell if I was listening to a new Opeth album or either of the last two.

In one ear, out the other. If Opeth were a new band and these were their first three albums, I would have never listened to them. Retro prog is not my thing.