|
Click Here to Login |
Register | Premium Upgrade | Blogs | Gallery | Arcade | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read | Log in |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
![]() |
#141 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Verplexed in Vermont
Posts: 10,436
Local Time: 08:19 AM
|
Quote:
__________________
"If you needed my autograph, I'd give it to you." Bob Dylan |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#142 | |
The Fly
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 183
Local Time: 01:19 PM
|
Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#143 | |
War Child
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 750
Local Time: 09:19 AM
|
Quote:
First, how you boil my argument down is too simplistic. I've never said I don't like Radiohead fans. I am one. Yes, I've criticised a few of those fans in here for being protectionist, but I think that was valid in those cases. I don't think all RH fans are that way. As for changing my argument, I guess I've done a bad job of articulating myself. I still believe in the no rhythm argument from my very first post. I also believe it ties together with everything I've said about them disproportionately representing themselves. To me, rhythm is the ultimate indicator in pop music (of which RH belongs) of being in touch with a more primitive sense of self and and correspondingly utilizing that sense to relate to their existence in the world. I believe that RH has underrepresented themselves in this area and that the tendencies that lead them to underrepresent themselves are a weakness. This gets us to your second paragraph. It's great that they admire all the artists, you mentioned, but it says nothing about their capacity to execute any influence derived. Now I want it on the record that you brought up U2. I've been lambasted by a few for doing so, earlier. This time it's not me, but I'm going to argue your point that U2 doesn't have rhythm in the way I've defined it. I think that U2 has has sense and feel for pulse that is leaps and bounds beyond RH's sense and feel for pulse and pulse is a very primitive way of relating to existence. Thirdly, you brought up jazz and race. I gave my thoughts on the jazz thing in an earlier post. I'll reiterate it if you can't find it and are interested, but for the time being I'll spare repeating myself for the others' reading. As for race, I'm impressed you brought this up. I fully realize that I'm treading on racial/cultural stereotypes with my sophistication vs. primitive points. Essentially, one could say that my argument is that RH is too Euro. That would be true if that same person believes in the European stereotype for whatever reason. I don't. As I've said many times, I believe that we're all about 50/50 in our makeup between those two traits. Where and how you were raised might contribute to a skewing of that ratio. There's nothing racist in stating the thought that someone may've been born and raised in an overly sophisticated/primitive environment that cultivated the over-development of that side of their humanity. That just means it's gonna take extra effort to develop the other natural half of their humanity. I don't believe RH has put in that extra effort and thus have begun to succumb to their dominant humanist and creative tendencies. Fouthly, it's wonderful that you discovered Passengers. I agree that it definately shows how U2 or more specifically Brian Eno's work with U2 has influenced RH. Lastly, regarding your points about U2's pandering and money striving. I believe those are a major oversimplification. I've addressed my theories about current U2 in the album has a name forum. I'm not going to repeat all that here. I will say that I'm not in total disagreement about your criticisms, but there's much more that's worth analyzing than your ideas suggest. Again, this isn't the place to do it, though. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#144 | |
War Child
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 750
Local Time: 09:19 AM
|
Quote:
They tried, but failed is how I think of HTTT. Thus their weakness in action. Those quotes prove that they know of what I speak. Why do you think they were striving to be more direct? Sexy where the beats fall? Play more blues? Swagger? Sound shiny and bright? Find joy? Less cerebral? Those quotes are their interpretation of what I've articulated. THEY know their weakness. I give them credit for that. They may've tried to do something about it, but HTTT doesn't get the job done. I swear most RH fans KNOW that album isn't great. Bread'n'Wine is a good example of that type of fan. I also am curious to know what RH fans think of those quotes. One guy told me that it's great that RH doesn't do blues based rock like everybody else. Ed seems to want to go that direction. Uh oh!! Also don't you guys think all those quotes about sexiness, being more direct and generating summery joy reminds you of you know who. That' a massive UH OH!!!! |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#145 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Verplexed in Vermont
Posts: 10,436
Local Time: 08:19 AM
|
Quote:
Can RH do the same? A real left turn that makes 1/2 their fans run away in terror (As AB and Out Of Time did.) It almost seems they've built up such a mystique that it hurts them. I'd LOVE it if they made the summery record they thought they made!
__________________
"If you needed my autograph, I'd give it to you." Bob Dylan |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#146 | |
War Child
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 750
Local Time: 09:19 AM
|
Quote:
This might be where Cujo's purified creative process ideas come into play. Maybe they tried too hard on HTTT. In other words, the process wasn't pure enough to get to what they were after. Of course, Cujo claimed RH was never after anything. 'They just allowed themselves to go where the process took them', but if that process is full of overused creative habits it will just take them to where they've been before and before. Thus HTTT. It's gonna take some major artistic effort to reach the under developed side of their humanity in a subconscious enough of a way to allow 'process' to take them somewhere elite. Truthfully, I'm rooting for them to pull it off. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#147 | |
War Child
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 750
Local Time: 09:19 AM
|
Quote:
Also, U2popMofo and others have pointed out numerous times how U2 has declined nowadays. Even if this is true, it's apples and oranges. U2 has ALREADY proven to have had 2 decades of greatness. Any quibbles with their current output is just a quibble with their attempt at a 3rd decade of greatness. RH has only proven 1 decade of greatness. HTTT was their first attempt at the elusive 2nd decade. Given the obligatory Best Of or two that will most likely come (the record company will probably demand it, soon), they aren't going to have a whole lot of attempts (already at least 3 yrs between HTTT and next album). They better start making the most of them. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#148 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 93
Local Time: 01:19 PM
|
Quote:
As to whether they've actually "played out an entire aspect of their artistry," I don't know. That's the first impression you get from HTTT, but there are songs on it where Radiohead is as Radioheadish as they've ever been and it's still exciting and new-- "A Wolf at the Door," "There There," and even "Scatterbrain." The problem with that one is the overproduction, which is going to have to improve. But if "Scatterbrain" was done as a more folky song without those silly voice-echoes, like it was live, it would seem to show they still have unlimited potential to mine even within their usual type of songwriting. What if someone had told REM they needed to make a radical shift after Out of Time because that style was all played out? It turns out the album just had weaker than usual songs. Automatic for the People is largely the same, except brilliant. The easy thing is always to ask a band to be what it isn't. But U2 never really did that. At first what you said sounded right but then I thought about it. Achtung is a left turn musically from The Joshua Tree, but emotionally those songs follow right along from "Running to Stand Still," "Where the Streets Have No Name" et al. Even some of the music is similar-- "Mothers of the Disappeared" with the drum machines, the guitar riffs of "Wire" and "Bullet the Blue Sky." They just changed the setting to the grimy modern big city, made the lyrics less pretentious, but the songwriting is not fundamentally changed-- except in a few cases later in the '90s where it is genuinely "ironic." Such as "Discotheque." But even then it's not really "ironic," because at the end of the song they remind you what they really believe. A song like "The National Anthem" or "Fitter Happier" is far more ironic. So anyway, everyone's temptation when Radiohead's in a rut has been to say, "Now it's time for the happy album." That would be nice. It would be nice not because I like happy music particularly, but because it's not something they've done yet. But there are a lot of other things they've not done yet either, that wouldn't require such a radical shift. Asking RH to make a happy album is asking them to make an album that doesn't question the state of the world and that's kind of like asking U2 to make an album that promotes violence. Just not gonna happen. I'm not sure Thom's voice could pull off "happy" very well. I guess I'm saying, however played out the traditional Radiohead subject matter may seem to you, resist the temptation to assume it can't be livened up again by a better set of songs or a different kind of sound than last time around. The next album IS going to sound different, I can guarantee that. Whether it will be an improvement, who knows. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#149 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: canada
Posts: 13,462
Local Time: 08:19 AM
|
congratulations, ladies and gentlemen.
this thread has raised discussion over at at ease. http://www.ateaseweb.com/mb/index.php?showtopic=52476 yours truly, soylent green |
![]() |
![]() |
#150 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2001
Location: six convenient metro locations
Posts: 14,747
Local Time: 08:19 AM
|
cross over is bad.
![]() I would like to keep the two boards seperate...I like the current Interferencers over there now ( ![]() Welcome, Bread and Wine! |
![]() |
![]() |
#151 | ||
War Child
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: pimp walkin the LBC
Posts: 640
Local Time: 06:19 AM
|
Quote:
Quote:
![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() |
#152 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2001
Location: six convenient metro locations
Posts: 14,747
Local Time: 08:19 AM
|
I wish I could use some of the repsonses they use over there to respond to you Alan Jamison.
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#153 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Little hand says it's time to rock and roll.
Posts: 15,153
Local Time: 08:19 AM
|
Quote:
Soylent Green is PEOPLE!!! It's PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE. (oh and I got a trunk full of amps mother fucker.) |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#154 | |
War Child
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 750
Local Time: 09:19 AM
|
Quote:
First, my reasoning regarding decades of greatness stems from 2 places. The first being the fact that RH is still in the game. As long as they keep recording, the question is an obvious one; Will their 2nd decade be as great as their first? I believe they need to address the weakness I've postulated to make it happen. The second is that a few in here have constantly slammed nu-U2 (as you like to call them) as their rebuttal to my theory on RH's weakness. The point I was trying to make with the post you quoted is that the comparison is apples and oranges. Just because U2 may or may not suck now, doesn't mean that RH may or may not be at an artistic crossroad. As for your Beatles vs. U2 comment, I think both have achieved the elite status. Put it this way, The Beatles didn't need a 2nd decade of greatness to achieve that, U2 did, but they went out an did it. RH also needs to go out and do it, I think. Because, just like U2, their first decade isn't on the same level as The Beatles only decade. Second, hopefully we can agree to disagree regarding HTTT. It's not a bad album. Like you've said, there's some good songs on there, but I don't think it did much of anything to build on their artistry or address the weakness I've described. Third, I'm not asking RH to be what they aren't. It's the opposite. I'm asking them to be more of what they are. Like I've said many times, I think there's a side of their humanity they havn't given enough of a creative exploration to. AB focused on a side of U2's humanity that had only been touched on in the previous decade. Mainly, a looser, freer more primitive side. By doing that a wonderful thing happened; they liberated themselves as artists. It's that sense of liberation that is AB's secret artistic weapon, I think. All the while, as you point out, they're still very much U2. RH could use a dose of that kind of liberation about now, I think. Finally, remember I've never asked RH to make a happy album. THEY asked themselves to judging by the quotes posted earlier. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#155 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: tbtf
Posts: 4,317
Local Time: 07:19 AM
|
Quote:
![]() gotta love atease ![]() |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#156 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 93
Local Time: 01:19 PM
|
This board is a lot more open to people's differences than At Ease I have to say. I'm not in danger of becoming a permanent member, but it's weird to see a music forum where multi-page threads are made about artists ranging from Seal to Broken Social Scene, with the haters mostly staying out of them. It's cool to see a lot of people here don't irrationally worship U2 anymore than I do. They just have an incredibly wide fanbase, you can't really categorize it-- some of the people seem to have learned about other music through U2, the way I learned about music through Radiohead. Hey, they're both mainstream bands, one is just more uncomfortable with the idea. I'm not an elitist. If U2 were still doing music worthy of that fanbase, I would think it was great. Their flaw is their need to always be universally loved, but when they don't force it too much, it works. "Beautiful Day," and some stuff off ATYCLB.
Although that thread in defense of the line about freedom and babies' heads is a bit disturbing. ![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#157 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 8,088
Local Time: 11:19 PM
|
Um...
Just because U2's most recent album is more conventional and not as experimental as UF, Pop, Zooropa and Passengers, does not make it a "bad" or "bland" album. To think so smacks of elitism. It's far from bland in my opinion, and both stronger and more enjoyable than Zooropa. |
![]() |
![]() |
#158 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: London/Sydney
Posts: 6,609
Local Time: 02:19 PM
|
Quote:
Please stay. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#159 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Verplexed in Vermont
Posts: 10,436
Local Time: 08:19 AM
|
Jeez. Atease is like an AC/DC forum with more syllables & sharper insults. Close minded indeed.
__________________
"If you needed my autograph, I'd give it to you." Bob Dylan |
![]() |
![]() |
#160 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Cork, Ireland... IM BACK!
Posts: 3,618
Local Time: 01:19 PM
|
Radiohead's biggest weakness is that their crap...
__________________ |
![]() |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|