joyfulgirl
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The artist's opinion on illegal downloading is also irrelevant.
Okkervil River thread
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The artist's opinion on illegal downloading is also irrelevant.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
i went over the speed limit and wasn't wearing my seat belt on my way to work this morning. i sure hope there aren't any members of the Green Bay Police Department on this forum.
4 albums makes up for it? So would you steal a Samsung camera because you own a Samsung television? I've likely spent considerably more money on music, cds, music dvds, and concert tickets than anyone else in this thread (or possibly in this section of the forum) so should it be ok for me to walk into Virgin Megastore and claim all their inventory as my own and then ravage the store manager's wife?
I realize the comparisons are over the top and outlandish, but I still think they're valid enough (just because you've paid for something before doesn't entitle any of us to anything else, whether related or unrelated). There is no justification for illegal downloading, the means don't meat the ends no matter how you try to tell yourself in your head that they do. (I spent quite a few years myself trying to make justifications. Having eaten at McDonalds countless times previously does not mean that I should be able to walk in and take any food I want now and decide later if I want to pay them something or not. No sort of market works like that, ever will work like that, or ever should work like that) Stealing is stealing is stealing is stealing. It's wrong, and nothing changes that. Everyone continues to do it because for now they can get away with it and have likely grown callous to the fact that it's completely wrong and they wouldn't do it if it was "stealing an album from a music store". There's no difference except it's easy, they don't fear punishment for now, and "no one knows". If anything, that makes it more sad and disturbing (it's great to know that if people have the choice between right and wrong, the only thing stopping them from doing wrong is the fact that others might know about it or they'll get in trouble). Anyways, rant over. I realize I make this over and over on this forum to completely deaf ears, but it's something I feel extremely strongly about and will certainly argue for more in the future (so please forgive my future soapboxing).
Audiogalaxy was a great music networking site, as good as anything else I've seen. Last FM was the first thing I've felt that has filled some of the gap it left. To label it solely as a "site that illegally traded music" is a bit narrow of a viewpoint, but you're correct that that is also certainly something that went on there (and probably why most were there). And yes, he did a lot of music editorials, lists, and such there. I think you can still find links to them on OR's site. Cool stuff.
I would not have heard of Okkervil River without first downloading their albums. In saying I own four of their albums now, I was proving the point that I do buy albums I download (assuming I like them). I intend to buy the Stand Ins as well, but in the meantime I feel no guilt about downloading it because I know I will buy it eventually.
In the broader spectrum of downloading music, I feel like downloading opens the door to hundreds of artists that I would not be able to hear otherwise. So perhaps the initial action of downloading is wrong, but it leads to a whole lot of good for both me and the artist.
The artist's opinion on illegal downloading is also irrelevant.
Why?
My (and most labels, artists) argument to that would be that there are so many samples you can check out legally all over the internet. No one needs to hear an entire album to decide if they'll like it or not (and even then, how many people actually do end up buying EVERY album they end up liking and listening to a great deal that they've downloaded?). Between artists' websites, labels' sites, youtube, myspace, iTunes, etc, you can almost always hear a massive amount of what's on the album completely legally before buying it. Maybe 5 or 6 years ago I would have conceded on that argument, but at this point there are multiple other options.
Despite any of that, an inability to experience something before purchasing it does not in any ways warrant or justify stealing it. Similarly, just because one of the many many many people involved in making and distributing a piece of music doesn't entirely mind of you download their work, doesn't mean that that validates stealing from all of the other people involved (band members, producers, labels, manufacturers, local retailers, etc).
Anyways, Okkervil River, guys. I recently came across this and thought it was kinda neat:
YouTube - Ukulélé Session Okkervil River
I'll concede to your argument on why the individual artists opinion isn't relevant.
However, if there are so many other ways you can hear an album online, then why does it matter if i chose to download. If instead I just listened to it off of myspace or watched youtube videos of all the songs is that really any worse? Downloading simply brings the album altogether in one convenient source, while using youtube, myspace and last.fm is simply spreading it out. If I go on to buy the album in the end I don't think downloading is worse.
And I will also agree that it is impossible to buy every single album I have downloaded, I have bought a good deal of them (about 150).
joyfulgirl
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I illegally downloaded exactly two records in my whole life several years ago, and I felt terrible about it and never did it again. I also never bought either of them because I didn't like them much. I keep saying I will eventually buy them because it's the right thing to do, but I never do and probably never will because there's always going to be something I want much, much more, and I am not rich (and these particular artists are). I would imagine that is a very typical scenario. Illegal downloading is about as tempting to me as shoplifting a pair of gym socks.
I never said anything about full albums being available to sample, as they're not (except as limited time streams on sites like Myspace or Last FM). I'm pretty sure we all know the differences of all of this and the implications are major and fairly obvious (low audio quality limited time streams vs. high quality "play anything you like" stealing), so I'm not going to get into it. It all comes down to morals and right and wrong. There is no justification for stealing, whether it's music or automobiles, and hearing others justifications for it is probably one of my biggest pet peeves about it all. Something being socially acceptable does not make it morally responsible.
Regardless, we've unfortunately completely derailed the thread, so I'm done. Here's one of the best live vids I've seen of them (sound wise that is):
YouTube - Okkervil River "Unless it's Kicks"
I was supposed to go to that in-store but my girlfriend at the time got sick that morning and couldn't go.
In retrospect, I should have just gone alone.
You have no idea how jealous of you I'd be right now if you had just told me that you'd been there for that. I've listened to that video clip a number of times in the last year...
Let's imagine the way, let's say 30 years in,
How somebody will say, "What you were doing when...?"
On a beautiful day, I was waking up and
I was lying in bed with my girlfriend
And the eggs on the plate, and the bacon hissin'
And the coffee was great, there was spring on the wind.
Have you ever lived through a day for the littlest things,
And the littlest ways made you feel you were blessed
If you died right then, well you know you'd be missed,
But there's no better state to cease to exist
And you wouldn't feel sad, and you wouldn't resist
Cause you knew what you had, and were thankful for it
How somebody will say, "What you were doing when...?"
On a beautiful day, I was waking up and
I was lying in bed with my girlfriend
And the eggs on the plate, and the bacon hissin'
And the coffee was great, there was spring on the wind.
Have you ever lived through a day for the littlest things,
And the littlest ways made you feel you were blessed
If you died right then, well you know you'd be missed,
But there's no better state to cease to exist
And you wouldn't feel sad, and you wouldn't resist
Cause you knew what you had, and were thankful for it
This son of a gun is going to be on repeat a lot this week (who am I kidding, the rest of the year). I'm glad the studio version is a billion times more enjoyable than the WOXY Lounge version. It's odd they wait until Jonathan is no longer in the group to finally have him contribute some vocals. Regardless, glad to finally hear this, I'd been excited for this song since reading about the duet when they announced the album.
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
I thought the exact same thing, actually.....thought they seemed uncomfortable the whole time. I still was thrilled to see them, (seeing Explosions in the Sky, then them then Broken Social Scene was quite the trifecta) but their performance did not blow me away. I'd like to see them again in a smaller venue.
I posted this vid in Imp's b-day thread, but I had to post it here as well (since my addiction and worship knows no bounds)
Lost Coastlines (Live and Acoustic in Norway)
Lost Coastlines (Live and Acoustic in Norway)
More hype:
'Lost Coastlines' is now available to download or stream for free from Pitchfork! Their write up of the song is great, good to see I'm not the only fanboy. It's a nice tune, you should all check it out while it's still free.
"Lost Coastlines" [MP3/Stream] | Pitchfork
There's also a nifty "trailer" for The Stand Ins on Okkervil's site now. You can watch it here:
Okkervil River - The Stand Ins on Vimeo
I would love if that meant they were releasing a DVD on the making of the album with the CD....
'Lost Coastlines' is now available to download or stream for free from Pitchfork! Their write up of the song is great, good to see I'm not the only fanboy. It's a nice tune, you should all check it out while it's still free.
"Lost Coastlines" [MP3/Stream] | Pitchfork
There's also a nifty "trailer" for The Stand Ins on Okkervil's site now. You can watch it here:
Okkervil River - The Stand Ins on Vimeo
I would love if that meant they were releasing a DVD on the making of the album with the CD....
Well, not months, but you'll get the download about a week early if you pre-order according to Jagjaguwar. You also get posters for The Stand Ins and The Stage Names thrown in for free with the pre-order, which is awesome (yet sucks considering I bought a poster for The Stage Names when I saw them last year and still haven't hung it up...) Hopefully they'll change their minds and send the download out earlier. Regardless, I just preordered.
And I realize no one cares considering I have made 3 unanswered posts, but I can't help but to continue to geek out with pre-release hype.
got_edge
Refugee
I could hang the Stand Ins poster right below The Stage Names one...And you're right-- no one cares about you
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
Good thing I have The Stand Ins to look forward to, otherwise I'd have just killed myself and left a note that said I did it because of how mean got_edge is to me.
She speaks sooth, though.
got_edge
Refugee
Okkervil River supports your decision. I mean, just look at Will's hair!
Okkervil River has yet again proved that they are the most unbelievably f*cking awesome band according to me by starting something called "The Stand Ins Project" on their new Youtube channel. This project will be every song from The Stand Ins covered (or redone completely) by some of their favorite artists (AKA stand ins, get it?!??!1!111!) The first video is of New Pornographers' Carl Newman performing 'Lost Coastlines'. This is apparently the only video of the project to actually include any of the Okkervil River members (Will actually does Jonathan's part in this). If I loved this band any more, it would be illegal.
YouTube - Lost Coastlines- Carl Newman and Will Sheff
YouTube - Lost Coastlines- Carl Newman and Will Sheff
got_edge
Refugee
I see what they did there
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
Pavlov?
phanan
Blue Crack Addict
I'm liking Lost Coastlines.
GirlsAloudFan
Blue Crack Addict
Their lead singer seems to be a very interesting fella.
That's a very unique and powerful voice that he possesses.
That's a very unique and powerful voice that he possesses.
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