NFL Thread

[LuckyNumber7]

Check this list out:



Roughing the Passer By Quarterback - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - List/Statistics/Data of NFL Penalties - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018



Sort it by roughing the passer calls per 100 attempts, most to least and you'll see Brady shows up 28th out of the 46 QB's who've played at least 40 games the past 10 years at 0.42 roughing calls per 100 dropbacks.

By contrast Ryan Tannehill benefits from the call 7th most frequently over the past decade at 0.76 roughings per 100 dropbacks.



So maybe you've seen the Pats twice a year, but you're wrong, you're looking at things through teal colored glasses.

I've watched every game of Brady's career, less the odd portion of the occasional game I've had to listen to on radio while in the car, he doesn't get the preferential treatment fans of opposing teams are so convinced he does.



Thanks for playing.

I definitely don’t think Brady “gets bullshit calls in his favor” any more than the next QB, but that link you shared isn’t evidence. It’s arbitrary information that’s probably more driven by QB play style and offensive line. Not “getting favored.”

 

[DaveC]

how is "roughing penalties per dropback" arbitrary? genuine question to our resident math and stats wiz, not trying to sound sarcastic.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

I'm assuming he means that a more accurate measure would be "roughing penalties per QB contact." A quarterback like Brady who runs an offense predicated on getting the ball out quick will naturally see less roughing penalties per dropback because the pass rush doesn't usually have enough time to get to him.

 

[mikal]

I think we’re all losing sight of the big picture. The NFL isn’t biased and/or fixing games. The problem is that the speed of the game has surpassed the current structure put in place to uphold the rules. The NFL needs to address these issues in more than 1 way:

1. More accountability to the officials, and possibly adding more eyes on the field.

2. Greater technology. Can the NFL mirror what tennis has in place on line calls to accurately spot the ball and determine whether or not a player crossed the goal line?

3. Every play should be reviewable by the league real time. For get the red challenge flag. Two plays that come to mind are the obvious pass interference call in the Saints/Rams game as well as the bogus roughing the passer on Brady. I would welcome NFL games lasting 10-15 minutes longer for the sake of getting the calls right.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

how is "roughing penalties per dropback" arbitrary? genuine question to our resident math and stats wiz, not trying to sound sarcastic.

Quoted from the page:
“This list is about who ‘always gets the calls’”

The author of the page (and presumably the stat) implies here that those numbers are indicative of advantage. So as to say if the QB is down the list, calls are being missed, ignored, or not made.

benefits from the call 7th most frequently

And heeson said this. “Benefits.” There’s absolutely no indication from these numbers of benefiting. It doesn’t track missed calls. It tracks calls made.

 

[Mac_Fly]

Check this list out:

Roughing the Passer By Quarterback - NFL Penalty Stats Tracker - List/Statistics/Data of NFL Penalties - 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018

Sort it by roughing the passer calls per 100 attempts, most to least and you'll see Brady shows up 28th out of the 46 QB's who've played at least 40 games the past 10 years at 0.42 roughing calls per 100 dropbacks.
By contrast Ryan Tannehill benefits from the call 7th most frequently over the past decade at 0.76 roughings per 100 dropbacks.

So maybe you've seen the Pats twice a year, but you're wrong, you're looking at things through teal colored glasses.
I've watched every game of Brady's career, less the odd portion of the occasional game I've had to listen to on radio while in the car, he doesn't get the preferential treatment fans of opposing teams are so convinced he does.

Thanks for playing.

Of course I'm seeing things through teal colored glasses -- wouldn't be a fan if I didn't (tongue firmly in cheek).

But your stat list doesn't address my complaint. It's not the frequency of roughing calls that I'm talking about, it's that he gets bogus roughing calls that don't really exist. This past game is case in point.

And don't even get me started on the "tuck rule."

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Brady was an absolute nobody when the tuck rule happened. He didn't get the benefit of that call because he was Tom Brady.

All top pocket assets get bogus calls made in their favor. All of em.

 

[Mac_Fly]

Brady was an absolute nobody when the tuck rule happened. He didn't get the benefit of that call because he was Tom Brady.

All top pocket assets get bogus calls made in their favor. All of em.

I didn't say he wasn't a nobody.

All I said is don't me started on that one.

Which was just more nonsense to help them win.

Raiders were robbed.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Yes yes. Everyone was robbed.

 

[mikal]

I didn't say he wasn't a nobody.



All I said is don't me started on that one.



Which was just more nonsense to help them win.



Raiders were robbed.

Every team has been robbed several times over. Big picture thinking. Improve officiating for the quality of the game.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Every team has been robbed several times over. Big picture thinking. Improve officiating for the quality of the game.

Well... whatever they do to improve it needs to be done right. The replay system takes way too long as it is. More replays can't be the answer unless they also speed up the process.

 

[Mac_Fly]

Well... whatever they do to improve it needs to be done right. The replay system takes way too long as it is. More replays can't be the answer unless they also speed up the process.

It is curious how long it takes sometimes. The guys in the booth figure it out far quicker -- let them make the call!

And I think more replays are the answer, at a much fast clip of course.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

It is curious how long it takes sometimes. The guys in the booth figure it out far quicker -- let them make the call!



And I think more replays are the answer, at a much fast clip of course.

They need to ensure the call is correct.

Then they need to make sure the clock is correct.

Then they need to make sure the placement of the ball is correct.

Then the down and distance.

Challenges remaining.

Timeouts.

Late in game there may be a run off.

It's not always as easy as just making the call.


It's also not as easy as simply making every play reviewable, including penalties. There are borderline penalties on every single snap. Where does it end?

At some point people need to accept that there's a human element and mistakes will be made. We can do what we can to use technology, but eventually there has to be a line.

 

[Mac_Fly]

They need to ensure the call is correct.

Then they need to make sure the clock is correct.

Then they need to make sure the placement of the ball is correct.

Then the down and distance.

Challenges remaining.

Timeouts.

Late in game there may be a run off.

It's not always as easy as just making the call.


It's also not as easy as simply making every play reviewable, including penalties. There are borderline penalties on every single snap. Where does it end?

At some point people need to accept that there's a human element and mistakes will be made. We can do what we can to use technology, but eventually there has to be a line.

I don't know that anyone is advocating that "every single play" or type of call is something that should be reviewed. But when there is such a consistency with inconsistency it should be addressed. After all, we don't want the NFL to emulate the NBA with the refs doing whatever at a whim (e.g., "makeup calls").

I'm speaking of making the call itself. Speeding that up. It does take too long on many occasions. Fix that. The refs will continue to perform the laundry list of other duties you've mentioned.

 

[Hewson]

I didn't say he wasn't a nobody.

All I said is don't me started on that one.

Which was just more nonsense to help them win.

Raiders were robbed.

Except that by the rule at the time it was the correct call. You can complain the rule was poorly written, and it has since been changed, but at the time that call was correct, Raiders were not robbed under the rules in 2001.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I don't know that anyone is advocating that "every single play" or type of call is something that should be reviewed. But when there is such a consistency with inconsistency it should be addressed. After all, we don't want the NFL to emulate the NBA with the refs doing whatever at a whim (e.g., "makeup calls").



I'm speaking of making the call itself. Speeding that up. It does take too long on many occasions. Fix that. The refs will continue to perform the laundry list of other duties you've mentioned.

There are many who are advocating for every call to be reviewable - the greatest nfl coach of all time being one of them.

I would also argue that the NBA is a good example of what not to do - and not because of "makeup calls", which aren't necessarily a thing in the NBA anymore (at least not like they were before replay).

The NBA uses replay more often - and it's horrible. It completely kills the flow of the game.

 

[mikal]

There are many who are advocating for every call to be reviewable - the greatest nfl coach of all time being one of them.

I would also argue that the NBA is a good example of what not to do - and not because of "makeup calls", which aren't necessarily a thing in the NBA anymore (at least not like they were before replay).

The NBA uses replay more often - and it's horrible. It completely kills the flow of the game.

I think the answer is to take the "replay" powers out of the hands of anyone wearing a striped shirt and make it a quick streamlined process in New York. Have enough resources dedicated to each game to look at multiple camera angles within seconds and be able to make a quick decision without a ref slowly waltzing over to a screen and looking at it for 2 minutes.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I think the answer is to take the "replay" powers out of the hands of anyone wearing a striped shirt and make it a quick streamlined process in New York. Have enough resources dedicated to each game to look at multiple camera angles within seconds and be able to make a quick decision without a ref slowly waltzing over to a screen and looking at it for 2 minutes.

The NBA already has a connection to the league office

It's painful.

 

[mikal]

The NBA already has a connection to the league office

It's painful.

I think in theory it can work. But like you said, “if done right”

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I think in theory it can work. But like you said, “if done right”

I agree that it can be better. I think MLB does it the best of all the leagues.

But it's still not as easy as most want it to be. You can't just make blatant no calls reviewable - you would have to make every single PI call reviewable. That's a can of worms that I don't think anyone wants to open.

Do we really want a review on every single contested incomplete pass in the last 2 minutes?

 

[mikal]

I agree that it can be better. I think MLB does it the best of all the leagues.

But it's still not as easy as most want it to be. You can't just make blatant no calls reviewable - you would have to make every single PI call reviewable. That's a can of worms that I don't think anyone wants to open.

Do we really want a review on every single contested incomplete pass in the last 2 minutes?

What's interesting is that when you break it down by Pass Interference alone, that penalty was called just over 1 per game in the 2017 season. Now, obviously you would have to factor in plays where it should have been called, so let's double that number and say it happens twice per game and that 25% of the calls are ones that warrant a review. I think that's probably worth the extra time to make sure it's called correctly, but obviously the league office probably knows better than me.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

What's interesting is that when you break it down by Pass Interference alone, that penalty was called just over 1 per game in the 2017 season. Now, obviously you would have to factor in plays where it should have been called, so let's double that number and say it happens twice per game and that 25% of the calls are ones that warrant a review. I think that's probably worth the extra time to make sure it's called correctly, but obviously the league office probably knows better than me.

The problem with PI is that it's usually not as obvious and blatant as it was Sunday, and it could probably be called on every play.

So if you make PI reviewable, you'll have coaches throwing challenge flags on every close incomplete pass. And it will probably be overturned in the offense's favor more often than not.

I think before you make PI reviewable you need to align PI with the college rule - 15 yards instead of a spot penalty.

 

[phanan]

Except that by the rule at the time it was the correct call. You can complain the rule was poorly written, and it has since been changed, but at the time that call was correct, Raiders were not robbed under the rules in 2001.

As far as I’m concerned, that game cancelled out the 1976 playoff game anyway.

 

[LemonMelon]

So if you make PI reviewable, you'll have coaches throwing challenge flags on every close incomplete pass.

Not if you only get two challenges per game

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Not if you only get two challenges per game

Sure, but they get a third challenge if the first two are overturned.

Plus the last 2 minute booth reviews.

Could set up for a shit ton of play stoppages.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Could just kill classicalism and have penalties be called from the replay booth without challenge.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Everyone bet the under, right? Nah? Yea me neither

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Gurley has to be hurt.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Belichick is the best coach ever.

He's also an idiot.

 

[mikal]

I’m not sure whether to think the Rams are on the verge of being embarrassed or if they have the Patriots right where they want them.