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Old 06-06-2005, 09:35 AM   #161
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This Eastern Conference Finals seems like a joke. No team has consistency.

I think any of the two teams, unless we see a significant improvement in their game, will get destroyed in the finals by the Spurs.
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Old 06-06-2005, 11:23 AM   #162
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i think super freak van gundy made a big mistake by holding wade out of game 6... you have two chances to get'er done... you can't mail it in in game 6 and hope for the best with everyone healthy and rested in game 7.

in theory... on paper, even... if wade is at full strength, with a rested shaq and alonzo thanks to the joke that was game 6... and being at home... Miami should win tonight.

but i don't like things on paper... i like things on the court. i would have played everyone in game 6 and hope that a game 7 never happened. anything can happen with just 1 game.



orrr... super freak van gundy didn't hold wade out to be safe, he held him out because he is reeeeally fucked up, in which case the heat don't have a chance unless shaq gets some of barry bonds' flaxseed oil on his thigh and turns into healthy shaq over night.
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Old 06-06-2005, 11:50 AM   #163
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I used to think Shaq was the most indispensable player on the Heat. Now I'm not so sure.
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Old 06-06-2005, 01:53 PM   #164
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here's a column from Bill Walton from ESPN Insider...



I wanted so badly for this Eastern Conference final to be a great series, hopefully one of the best of all time. I love this game and I know how important this all is when everything is on the line here and I came with good intentions.


But Larry Brown has shown his true colors, letting the disease of conceit create an untenable mess that I can't see a way out of for him. This is officially a disaster of epic proportions.

When this story first started simmering early this week, we were all waiting for the next Mark Felt and the new Deep Throat to shine the light in the darkest of corners. Amazingly, we didn't have to wait anywhere near 30 years for this one. Brown took care of that when he stuck his own foot deep down in his throat.

Shame on Larry Brown. Rest assured I have no rooting interest whatsoever here, other than for a great game and I find myself mad as can be, unable to let it go.

This scam is the Jeff Van Gundy story on steroids. The difference being that Van Gundy called in the question of the integrity of the league and the honesty of the refs and is rewarded with a contract extension, while Brown quits on his team in the middle of the Eastern Conference championship game and is given the state of Ohio and the future of the NBA.

Brown's selfishness and his greedy addiction to his own personal agenda has left an indelible stain on everything and his egregious actions have completely overshadowed a potentially great series. Now, Brown is taking the low road by blaming the media and laying it on the messenger as if this is all somehow our fault.

He is doing things on a continuing basis that he would never tolerate from his own players. All we ever hear from this guy is about doing things the "right way." Please, Larry, explain to me how this can be the "right way."

He is coaching one team and running another and in a business that reeks of conflicts of interest, this is the ultimate conflict of interest. One of the major roles of a good coach is to set the moral tone, for lesser, younger and inexperienced team members to follow.

But when I watch Larry Brown today in the huddles, at his press conferences, anything and everything, really all I see is fakery. A good coach with quality values and the best interest of the team at heart has the difficult task of asking his players to do things that are risky and not always in their best interest. He has abrogated that position of authority.

If I played for him and he did to me what he has done to his Detroit Pistons, I would lose complete faith and confidence in him as both a coach and a person. The next time he called the team together before the game for his last minute pre-game speech in the locker room, I would just get up and walk out asking him on my way out the door why I should ever listen to anything he has to say anymore.

How can they ever trust anything he does again? How can you believe anything he ever says again?

He has done the worst thing that anyone can do to a group dynamic, he has made himself the story and it's not even a good story at that. The Brown apologists will now start coming out of the woodwork. They will start spinning blame, responsibility and accountability on someone or something else, but the truth is this whole mess is as bad as it gets.

Those same enablers will claim that the Pistons gave the Cavaliers the right to talk to Brown and that this is all a non-story. The Pistons sure seem to be saying to Cleveland, that if you want him you can have him and none too soon.

His actions show that he cares about nothing but himself and if he doesn't care about his own team, why should we care about anything that's going on here?

The owner, Mr. Davidson, is one of the classiest owners in NBA history. He deserves so much better than this and what about the Piston fans, the ones who really make this all work?

I'm amazed that he's allowed to stay on as a member of the Pistons particularly in light of all the "right way" preaching that we heard this summer at the Athens Olympics about giving him players who want to be there as part of a real team. It sure seems that he's the one who has to go.

My other question is: Where is LeBron James in all of this? Why hasn't he spoken up? Is he in on this or is there some sort of a post-Olympic hangover for LeBron about not getting a lot of playing time because of his coach who was so insistent on his players doing things the right way.

Somewhere, Dean Smith and the many distinguished North Carolina alumni are shaking their heads in disgust. This is the kind of thing you would expect from George Karl, but not Larry Brown. This is a guy who seemingly every other phrase out of his mouth is to please, do it the right way. Please, gag me with a spoon!

Now there's the question of the new Cleveland coach who is reportedly there because of Brown. I'm sure that Mike Brown is terrific in all things, but he has never coached an NBA game in his life and while everybody has to get their start somewhere, the Cavaliers have one chance to keep LeBron and they're going with a rookie coach?

This whole debacle cannot be about money for him because along with Don Nelson and Pat Riley, nobody has made a bigger fortune coaching in the NBA than Brown.

This whole story is so bad, that Rasheed Wallace now looks like the rational one of the bunch.

Bill Walton, an NBA analyst for ESPN, is a regular contributor to Insider
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Old 06-06-2005, 02:19 PM   #165
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Valid points aside -- my God, Bill Walton writes the same way he speaks.
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Old 06-06-2005, 08:04 PM   #166
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Pistons 88 Heat 82

Let it be known that two months ago, I called this. I called that it would be Pistons/Spurs in the finals. I called it. I am so psyched for this finals series. SO psyched. Great, great game 7. Pistons fought back even when down by 6 points with only a few minutes remaining. Billups hit the big FTs when they counted the most. Rasheed played his best game of the series. They played like a great TEAM. This should be a great finals.

I await Headache's in-depth analysis of game 7.
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Old 06-06-2005, 08:07 PM   #167
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The Pistons played strong defense down the stretch and scored the points they needed -- but if their second-half offense keeps degenerating into one-on-one isolation offense, they're going to get rolled by the Spurs.
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Old 06-06-2005, 08:21 PM   #168
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Originally posted by namkcuR
Pistons 88 Heat 82

Let it be known that two months ago, I called this. I called that it would be Pistons/Spurs in the finals. I called it. I am so psyched for this finals series. SO psyched. Great, great game 7. Pistons fought back even when down by 6 points with only a few minutes remaining. Billups hit the big FTs when they counted the most. Rasheed played his best game of the series. They played like a great TEAM. This should be a great finals.

I await Headache's in-depth analysis of game 7.
did you call shaq and dwayne wade both being injured yet your great team still needing 7 games to beat them?

i am disgusted that such a horrific team is represented in the nba finals again... so they win one title 'cause of a rapist and get back to the finals do to an abundance of injuries... oh what a great fucking team they are... fucking disgusting that a team with such horrific offensive skills can advance to the so called apex of basketball two years in a row. i'd rather eat my own shit than watch them play. if there is a basketball god, the spurs will absolutely dismantle them in the finals.

and people wondered how the americans lost in the olympics... it's because people actually believe these fuckers are good.

that's all the review i need. now let me go to bed before i gouge out my eye balls at the thoughts of watching the pistons for 4 more games.

and on a side note, stan van gundy should be smacked with a wet noodle for thinking that mailing in game 6 was a good idea.

absolutely disgusting.


and yes i know... i usually curse in my sports posts when i'm drunk... but i can garuntee you... i am 100% sober. i'm just that fucking disgusted at the game i love.
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Old 06-06-2005, 08:54 PM   #169
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


did you call shaq and dwayne wade both being injured yet your great team still needing 7 games to beat them?

i am disgusted that such a horrific team is represented in the nba finals again... so they win one title 'cause of a rapist and get back to the finals do to an abundance of injuries... oh what a great fucking team they are... fucking disgusting that a team with such horrific offensive skills can advance to the so called apex of basketball two years in a row. i'd rather eat my own shit than watch them play. if there is a basketball god, the spurs will absolutely dismantle them in the finals.

and people wondered how the americans lost in the olympics... it's because people actually believe these fuckers are good.

that's all the review i need. now let me go to bed before i gouge out my eye balls at the thoughts of watching the pistons for 4 more games.

and on a side note, stan van gundy should be smacked with a wet noodle for thinking that mailing in game 6 was a good idea.

absolutely disgusting.


and yes i know... i usually curse in my sports posts when i'm drunk... but i can garuntee you... i am 100% sober. i'm just that fucking disgusted at the game i love.
Oh come on now, the Pistons aren't that bad. They have their scoring droughts, yes, but they also have a ton of endurance and poise. When a team with Shaq on it has ample opportunity to go up 8 points with only a few minutes left, a lot of teams would've been done. Not the Pistons. They came back and won the game. They may have imploded in earlier games in the series, but when it counted the most, they had more poise than the other team. They came from behind, they hit their FTs, they won the game.

And as for needing 7 games to beat the Heat when Shaq and Wade were injured....one, Wade was only injured for the last two games, and two, Shaq is still putting up 19-20ppg and 7-8 rpg, it's not like that's a poor performance. Also, the Pistons may have been lucky in playing teams that aren't completely healthy, but give them credit for staying healthy themselves. To stay that injury-free while playing such a physical game is to be applauded.

I, for one, am glad that we won't have to watch Shaq in the finals. I'm glad we won't have to watch him bury his shoulder in everyone's chest every time he touches the ball. I'm glad we won't have to watched endless Hack-A-Shaqs at the end of the games. I'm glad that what we will watch is a two pretty ego-free TEAMS play each other. You can't really focus on individuals in this series. Tim Duncan is the only real superstar between the two teams, and you can't focus on him as an individual the way you would with a Shaq or a KG or a Wade or a Kobe et al, because he is such an unselfish player and because his ego is so much less than those guys. He is all about the TEAM and that's what this series will be all about.

I think you are being way too hard on the Pistons. I think you probably just don't like them, regardless of how good they are or aren't. That's just a hunch.

Oh, and I don't think Van Gundy mailed in game 6. In fact, on the telecast, Sager specifically said that Van Gundy, when asked about the possibility of sitting Shaq for the bulk of the game and just resting him for game 7, said 'no way' and that they wanted to go for it in game 6. The idea that they didn't try to win game 6 is false. They just lose that much when Wade isn't on the floor. D.Jones/Haslem/R.Butler just aren't good enough to carry his weight.

Oh, and on a side note, the reason our olympic team sucked was because one, a lot of players simply refused to play, two, the coaches apparently thought that they could just stick a bunch of their talent together on the floor and be good enough to beat everyone, and three, a lot of people underestimated how much other olympic teams had improved. It has nothing to do with anyone believing 'these fuckers' are good. That's a load off.
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Old 06-06-2005, 11:45 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR

I, for one, am glad that we won't have to watch Shaq in the finals. I'm glad we won't have to watch him bury his shoulder in everyone's chest every time he touches the ball. I'm glad we won't have to watched endless Hack-A-Shaqs at the end of the games. I'm glad that what we will watch is a two pretty ego-free TEAMS play each other. You can't really focus on individuals in this series. Tim Duncan is the only real superstar between the two teams, and you can't focus on him as an individual the way you would with a Shaq or a KG or a Wade or a Kobe et al, because he is such an unselfish player and because his ego is so much less than those guys. He is all about the TEAM and that's what this series will be all about.
the basketball season has just begun for me

go spurs...
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Old 06-07-2005, 05:20 AM   #171
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One lesson that Ron Jeremy hopefully learned last night: late in an important game, do not put the ball in the hands of Damon F'in Jones.
Talk about your horrible turnover at a critical juncture...
Quote:
Originally posted by Damon Jones Lets see if I just jump up and throw the ball in the direction of the basket, there's a 44% chance that one of the remaining 9 guys on the floor who grabs it will be on my team, assuming it doesn't just sail out of bounds...I mean hey I'm Damon Jones, I have the mad skillz necessary to jump up in the air with no place to go and then make something happen...heck I can also hit 1 of 2 from the free throw line also when my team is down 3 with less than 20 seconds to go, ensuring that if we repeatedly foul a 90% FT shooting Piston, we'll never have the opportunity to attempt a tying 3 pointer.
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Old 06-07-2005, 05:24 AM   #172
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i am disgusted that such a horrific team is represented in the nba finals again... so they win one title 'cause of a rapist
Funny, the Spurs didn't seem to be able to handle the Lakers last year. Maybe the Pistons deserve some credit for shutting them down, hmm?

One more thing...I find it hard to get outraged at the fact that Larry Brown may or may not have taken a front-office position with the Cavaliers. He has legitimate health issues that may end his coaching career, so it's not like he's quitting on the Pistons. And as for negotiating while the season is still going -- when else is he supposed to negotiate? Isn't part of the reason that the NFL constantly recycles terrible coaches because it won't let successful NFL assistant coaches look for new jobs while the playoffs are going on?
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Old 06-07-2005, 05:26 AM   #173
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Funny, the Spurs didn't seem to be able to handle the Lakers last year. Maybe the Pistons deserve some credit for shutting them down, hmm?
Well the Spurs did get severely jobbed by the clock operator (in their own building no less) on the Fisher buzzer beater that ended up being the difference in the series.
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Old 06-07-2005, 05:31 AM   #174
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Well the Spurs did get severely jobbed by the clock operator (in their own building no less) on the Fisher buzzer beater that ended up being the difference in the series.
Kobe hit the game-tying three in game 2 against the Pistons, and they went on to win. Detroit responded by crushing the Lakers in three straight. Isn't that how champions are supposed to respond?
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Old 06-07-2005, 05:39 AM   #175
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And as for needing 7 games to beat the Heat when Shaq and Wade were injured....one, Wade was only injured for the last two games, and two, Shaq is still putting up 19-20ppg and 7-8 rpg, it's not like that's a poor performance. Also, the Pistons may have been lucky in playing teams that aren't completely healthy, but give them credit for staying healthy themselves. To stay that injury-free while playing such a physical game is to be applauded.

The Pistons were a bit lucky to avoid injuries...apparently on Sunday night, the car that was driving Lindsey Hunter, Tayshaun Prince and Elden Campbell got broadsided when it attempted to make a U-turn in the middle of the street.
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Old 06-07-2005, 07:58 AM   #176
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Ok, here we go again... I think, however, that the Spurs are a much better team this year than what they were last year. Contributions from Ginobili and Parker are much more significant than what they were last year and even some roleplayers like Bruce Bowen, Mohammed or Brent Barry are stepping up.

I also dislike the Pistons' play. But I have to recognize that Larry Brown is talented and managed to bring back to the finals a team that, in my opinion, is worse than what it was last year.

With that said, I hope the Pistons get clobbered...
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Old 06-07-2005, 09:19 AM   #177
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and yes i know... i usually curse in my sports posts when i'm drunk... but i can garuntee you... i am 100% sober. i'm just that fucking disgusted at the game i love.
this was actually a lie... i had been drinking since 5 in the afternoon... end of school party... so no, i don't actually want to eat my own shit.

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Old 06-07-2005, 09:40 AM   #178
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so no, i don't actually want to eat my own shit.
Especially since you had corn with dinner last night.
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Old 06-07-2005, 10:13 AM   #179
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I, for one, am glad that we won't have to watch Shaq in the finals. I'm glad we won't have to watch him bury his shoulder in everyone's chest every time he touches the ball. I'm glad we won't have to watched endless Hack-A-Shaqs at the end of the games. I'm glad that what we will watch is a two pretty ego-free TEAMS play each other. You can't really focus on individuals in this series. Tim Duncan is the only real superstar between the two teams, and you can't focus on him as an individual the way you would with a Shaq or a KG or a Wade or a Kobe et al, because he is such an unselfish player and because his ego is so much less than those guys. He is all about the TEAM and that's what this series will be all about.
i'm a tad tired of the constant refering to the pistons as a TEAM, as if the Heat were a bunch of selfish bastards. miami played quite well together throughout the season. they had guys like rasual butler, who was a nobody before the season, turn into a guy who was a big contributer, thanks largely, according to butler, to shaq's influence on him off the court as well as on. do the pistons play well together? yes... swell. so do the heat... so did the suns... so did denver... so did a lot of other teams.

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I think you are being way too hard on the Pistons. I think you probably just don't like them, regardless of how good they are or aren't. That's just a hunch.
i really have nothing against them as a franchise... i have no reason to like them or dislike them. i have nothing against the city of detroit, auburn hills, the state of michigan... the pistons never had a bitter rivlary with the knicks like the heat did in the mid 90s. my dislike for them really is based soley on the way they play the game. i don't consider a team, no matter how good they are deffensively, that scores on average between 80 and 90 points a game to be playing good basketball. they have one very talented offensive player in rasheed wallace, and they hardly ever use him correctly. they have a 2 guard that can't shoot past 18 feet, a 3 who can't shoot past 10, and a 5 who can't shoot past a foot. this is not basketball at it's highest level. they win based on their athleticism... not their skill level. it's an epidemic in american basketball that reaches down to all levels, and the pistons continued success is not helping.

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Oh, and on a side note, the reason our olympic team sucked was because one, a lot of players simply refused to play, two, the coaches apparently thought that they could just stick a bunch of their talent together on the floor and be good enough to beat everyone, and three, a lot of people underestimated how much other olympic teams had improved. It has nothing to do with anyone believing 'these fuckers' are good. That's a load off.
ironic how you blame the coaches for the loss, and the head coach and top assistant of the US olympic team, who had the most input on player personel, were Larry Brown and Greg Popovich... the two coaches in the NBA Finals. notice that brown did not take a single detroit piston onto the team.

you are looking at the nba. i am looking at the entire heirarchy of basketball... from youth leagues all the way up to the NBA. the sportscenterfication of american basketball is ruining the sport.. at least the american verison of it. we are creating a generation of players who are void of skill. go to any youth basketball camp, middle school or even your local park and you'll see kids practicing their And-1 mixtape crossovers, but ask them what the Mikan Drill is, and you'll be lucky to find but a handful who've ever even heard of it, let alone know how it's done. when i go to work the camps this summer, the question i will get asked the most is "can you dunk." not questions on how to improve your game... they only care if you can dunk or not. if you can, they automaticly assume you're a good player.

high school coaches have lost all control over the majority of programs around america. good coaches don't want the jobs in the inner-city, and no one wants to coach in the suburbs because of the stench of law suits that has overtaken youth sports as a whole. AAU, where players learn absolutely nothing, has become more important than high school. college coaches offer up deals to AAU programs like Riverside Church in order to get the coveted player they want. The team I coach was in the County Finals two seasons ago... in the game, AJ Price, a guard on the team we faced, Amityville, scored 36 points, based mostly on second chance putbacks. He shot horrificly from the field, and got his points based on his athletic ability. The guard on my team scored 34 points and had 12 assists, shooting 4 of 5 from the three point line... his points were based on skill, not athetlicism. AJ got a full ride to UConn, my kid's going to CW Post, a D2 school on Long Island. Coaches take the chance on athletic skills because they figure they can always teach the skill, but you can't teach athleticism. Fair enough... and 10-15 years ago, that theory actually worked. But it doesn't work anymore, because the kids only stay a year or two in college and then bounce for the NBA. NBA coaches don't run skill development drills in practice... it is assumed that you know this shit. But they don't... so now there's a generation of "stars" who don't know the basic fundamentals of the game. And they get chosen to go to the Olympics and represent our country, and they lose...

Yes... if Shaq and KG had went... if Kidd was healthy and had played... then the Americans would have ended up winning it again.

But it's not like they send Michael Doleac and Shandon Anderson over there... the team that Larry Brown, Greg Popovich and Roy Williams put together was filled with All Stars and MVP candidates... Duncan, Iverson, James, Marbury, Wade, Marion, Stoudamire... these are supposedly some of the top players in the game today... yet they lost by 19 to Puerto Rico, who's only NBA player plays 10 minutes a game for the Pistons... they lost to a Lithuanian team with zero NBA players... and lost again to Argentina... led by such NBA legends as Manu, Andreas Nocioni and Carlos Delfino.

The United States Men's Basketball team had an overall record of 109-2 going into the 2004 Olympics. In Athens, they lost 3 times...
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Old 06-07-2005, 04:38 PM   #180
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and lost again to Argentina... led by such NBA legends as Manu, Andres Nocioni and Carlos Delfino.
Hey, not every BEST player in the world plays in the NBA... Argentina had other great players like Fabricio Oberto, Luis Scola, Alejandro Montecchia and Walter Herrmann... all of them playing in Europe.

I must admit I loved seeing the Argentines kicking the U.S.'s butt...
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