NBA Basketball 2006-07: The Thread Part II

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namkcuR said:


Walton was in his prime in the late 70s - the competition he faced wasn't close to what Ewing faced. Jordan/Pippen Bulls, Hakeem's Rockets, Robinson/Duncan Spurs(in 99), Reggie's Pacers, Alonzo's Heat, etc.

you could argue the same thing against Russell, Chamberlain, Kareem...

It's all relative I guess.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
Patrick Ewing was great, no question, but when your team is better with you either gone or injured, that's never good. He was a perennial all-star and will be a hall of famer, but without any rings or MVPs to show for it.

woah woah woah woah woah... i have to take issue here.

i imagine your "the knicks were better with you gone or injured" is based partialy on bill simmons' assinine "ewing theory" that he talks about so many times. if it's not, and you've never heard of that, then tell me and i'll retract...

but it's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. the knicks may have been better in the '99 playoffs, when ewing tried to come back from injury and wasn't healthy. i.e. he wasn't patrick ewing. but let's remember... the knicks were the 8 seed that year. and one would have to think that they would have had a bit easier time if ewing had been healthy and playing against the spurs that year, with their two bigs.

the best player patrick ewing played with during the prime of his career was either charles oakley or john starks... not exactly top 50 all time material... yet year after year the knicks battled right to the end with the bulls, who featured the greatest player of all time along with another top 50 all time player.

better without ewing? please... give me a break. obviously, as we can all see, the knicks as a franchise have been nothing but great since trading ewing. [/sarcasm]
 
why i put 'em where they are...

1. russell... the greatest winner in the history of team sports. the point of the game is to win, yes? also the greatest defensive player in basketball history... blocking shots to start breaks, rather than blocking shots into the crowd to make the crowd ooo and ahhh like today's shot blockers.

2. chamberlain... most dominant player ever... if winning didn't matter, would be #1 by a mile. but no matter how ridiculous his stats were, and they were, russell always had his number, so russell has to go first.

3. abdul-jabbar... changed the game in college, was a dominating force over two generations, and had a great cameo in airplane! to boot.

4. olajuwon... so smooth, so skilled. had probably the best instinctive post moves of any center i've ever seen. the dream shake? :drool: i still try to pull that off in pick up games throughout the tri-state area.

5. o'neal... sheer brute force combined with amazing athleticism. has more rings, and probably better stats (don't feel like lookin' 'em up) than hakeem... but let's remember, hakeem bitch slapped him back in the day.

6. malone... he was amare stoudamire/dwight howard before either of those two were born.

7. ewing... the greatest jumpshooting center of all time (unless you count dirk as a center, which i don't). one of the greatest college players of all time. changed the way the nba drats players... may have had 5-6 rings if not for that pesky jordan guy. would be further up the list if he had just one.

8. robinson... a poor man's moses malone. would consistantly get bitch slapped by hakeem and was a playoff failure up until he got hurt for most of the season, making the spurs miss the playoffs, fuck the celtics and the butt and draft tim duncan.

9. walton... great skill for a big. would be futher up the list if his career wasn't hampred by injuries.

10. mikan... you can't have a top 10 list without george mikan. all 9 of the guys above him probably would kick mikan's ass, and there's some guys off the list that probably would have, too... but he's george mikan. he was the first true big guy, and his moves spawned the core fundamental drill that is taught to beginers... unless your name is ty thomas.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:


woah woah woah woah woah... i have to take issue here.

i imagine your "the knicks were better with you gone or injured" is based partialy on bill simmons' assinine "ewing theory" that he talks about so many times. if it's not, and you've never heard of that, then tell me and i'll retract...

but it's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. the knicks may have been better in the '99 playoffs, when ewing tried to come back from injury and wasn't healthy. i.e. he wasn't patrick ewing. but let's remember... the knicks were the 8 seed that year. and one would have to think that they would have had a bit easier time if ewing had been healthy and playing against the spurs that year, with their two bigs.

the best player patrick ewing played with during the prime of his career was either charles oakley or john starks... not exactly top 50 all time material... yet year after year the knicks battled right to the end with the bulls, who featured the greatest player of all time along with another top 50 all time player.

better without ewing? please... give me a break. obviously, as we can all see, the knicks as a franchise have been nothing but great since trading ewing. [/sarcasm]

okay fair enough. I do kind of believe in the "Ewing Theory", but that's a bit beside the point. He's one of my favorite centers, no question, but I'm evaluating on player/team accomplishments, and in that regard he does not stack up to the rest. (no MVPs or rings, but multiple all-star appearances)

What happened when he finally reached the Finals in '94? Hakeem pretty much owned him with an inferior Rocket team.

You know about the downfall of the Knicks way more than I do, but the team they had without Ewing still had potential to be great in the East until horrible trades and signings killed their team.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:
What happened when he finally reached the Finals in '94? Hakeem pretty much owned him with an inferior Rocket team.

first... yes, hakeem outplayed him. he outscored him 26ppg to 19ppg on the season. owned him? no... ewing set the record for blocked shots in an nba finals series in that series. he played well... hakeem just played better, and for good reason... hakeem was better.

inferior team?

sam cassell, robert horry, kenny smith, vernon maxwell, otis thorpe, mario elie vs. john starks, charles oakley, derek harper, anthony mason, hubert davis and the man which whom's name shall never be spoken again (we shall refer to him as #54)

it's a push... though i'd argue that houston had the better team, people just didn't realize how good cassell and horry were at the time.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:


first... yes, hakeem outplayed him. he outscored him 26ppg to 19ppg on the season. owned him? no... ewing set the record for blocked shots in an nba finals series in that series. he played well... hakeem just played better, and for good reason... hakeem was better.

inferior team?

sam cassell, robert horry, kenny smith, vernon maxwell, otis thorpe, mario elie vs. john starks, charles oakley, derek harper, anthony mason, hubert davis and the man which whom's name shall never be spoken again (we shall refer to him as #54)

it's a push... though i'd argue that houston had the better team, people just didn't realize how good cassell and horry were at the time.

I liked Houston's team and Sam Cassell's one of my favorite players (he looks like ET and went to FSU) but I think New York had the better team.

owned was an overstatement, I meant outplayed, I like using that word too much.

You know are they say, "When in Rome..."
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:


i'm partial to bill wennington myself, only because he went to high school where i coach now and we're trying to get a donation out of him

ME TOO! but for me. It was his automatic 10-15 foot baseline jumper. :D


Hakeem is and always will be my favorite Center ever. He was unbelievable.
 
LemonMacPhisto said:


I liked Houston's team and Sam Cassell's one of my favorite players (he looks like ET and went to FSU) but I think New York had the better team.

well what were ya, three when that series took place? :wink:

it's arguable who had the better team... new york played very well together, but individualy they didn't have great talent. john starks is the epitome of that statement.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:


well what were ya, three when that series took place? :wink:

it's arguable who had the better team... new york played very well together, but individualy they didn't have great talent. john starks is the epitome of that statement.

NBA Hardwood Classics baby!
 
Who says Matt Millen's the luckiest GM in all of sport to still be working:

http://sports.aol.com/news/articles...iyear-extension/20070312131109990002?cid=1690

Knicks Give Isiah Multiyear Extension
Chairman Dolan Satisfied With Team's Progress
By BRIAN MAHONEY
AP
GREENBURGH, N.Y. (March 12) - Isiah Thomas delivered "evident progress" sooner than needed. Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan planned to wait all season before deciding on Thomas' future with the Knicks. But when New York fought through a few recent injuries to move into playoff position, Dolan concluded he no longer needed to wait.


Thomas Outlasts Critics

Isiah Thomas succesfully catered to audience of one: Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan planned to wait all season before deciding on Thomas' future with the Knicks. But when New York fought through a few recent injuries to move into playoff position, Dolan concluded he no longer needed to wait

So have gave Thomas a multiyear contract extension Monday, nine months after he warned the Knicks coach and team president that the team needed to show improvement this season or he'd be out of a job.

"My thinking was that it was going to go the whole season," Dolan said. "But in the last few weeks I've just become absolutely convinced and I think they've shown, they've done what we asked them to do. And I felt that now is the time to do it."

The announcement comes with the Knicks having climbed into eighth place in the Eastern Conference. Dolan said he reached his decision sometime in the last 10 days, and Thomas said he was told about it Sunday night. Neither he nor Dolan provided any contract details, other than that Thomas would keep both jobs.

"I feel good that the uncertainty about my professional situation is cleared up," Thomas said after practice. "But again, the most important thing is that we keep our team moving forward and we stay focused and continue to try to get into the playoffs."

Thomas added the coaching duties to his other role in June after Dolan fired Larry Brown following one season. But along with the job came the ultimatum, though Dolan never publicly said what the Knicks needed to do this season to demonstrate the "significant" and "evident" progress he sought.

Turns out wins and losses weren't the most important thing.

"The players getting better, the hard work, the heart that they showed, counted to me more than the won-loss record," Dolan said. "We wouldn't be sitting here today if we had the same record but the team did not show that it had the heart."

Dolan's announcement comes well ahead of schedule. When he met with the team's beat writers in December, he stressed that he wouldn't make a decision until after the season. However, the Knicks were 8-15 at the time and coming off a dismal home loss to Boston a night earlier in which they trailed by 30 points.

Things quickly got worse for Thomas, as the Knicks lost twice more that week - the second coming in the brawl with Denver that embarrassed the organization - to fall to a season-worst eight games under .500.


Dolan has since been impressed by a turnaround that has the Knicks (29-34) on pace to make the playoffs after a two-year absence. They entered Monday with a half-game lead over Orlando for the final spot in the East, already with six more victories than last season.

"All the players kind of took it upon themselves, being that he had a hand in bringing all of us here," center Eddy Curry said. "We all felt like it was our duty to go out here and play hard and try to perform and give him some kind of security."

Dolan praised Thomas for getting the team to play together and for the improvement in the Knicks' young players. Second-year forward David Lee has become one of the NBA's best sixth men, and Curry has turned into one of the top centers in the East.

Dolan said there was a "crisis at the end of last season," referring to the poor relationship between Brown and many of the players. That contributed to New York's 23-59 record, which tied for the most losses in franchise history.

But the players have rallied behind Thomas while having to play through injuries to Jamal Crawford and Lee, two of their top players.

"We were all well aware of the circumstances coming out of last year as far as the ultimatum to win," point guard Stephon Marbury said.

Thomas has been a successful NBA coach, leading the Indiana Pacers to the playoffs in all three of his seasons. But his record as an executive hasn't been nearly as good, and there were plenty of "Fire Isiah!" chants last season during games, as well as the night of the NBA draft.

New York is still without a playoff victory since Thomas arrived in December 2003, despite the largest payroll in the league. The free agents he signed over the last two summers, Jerome James and Jared Jeffries, have both struggled with the Knicks.

Dolan shook off the criticisms of Thomas' work in the front office, saying "nobody's perfect." However, Thomas acknowledged that he had begun to worry about the reputation he built as a player, when he led the Detroit Pistons to a pair of NBA titles during a Hall of Fame career.

"I was more concerned about the respect of myself as an individual than I was job security, the what I stood for in the game of basketball and the way my basketball legacy has been," Thomas said. "I didn't want to have a failure here. That was my concern, not necessarily if I was going to have a job."
 
why must you taunt me such :sad:


Knicks Have Made Progress, Evidently
New York Magazine

Cablevision honcho and Madison Square Garden chief Jim Dolan announced today that he's giving Knicks coach and president Isiah Thomas a multiyear contract extension based on the team's "evident progress" — a term that seems destined to join "mission accomplished" in the Optimist's Hall of Fame. Let's review what's evident, shall we? On the positive side, the Knicks have won 46 percent of their games this season (compared to just 28 percent last year) and are fighting for a playoff spot. On the negative, they're still the highest-paid team in the NBA (for which Isiah is largely to blame), winning even 46 percent of their games still means the Knicks are losing more than half, and they're playing mediocre ball against historically weak competition. In other words, the team's progress seems roughly on pace with that of the Second Avenue subway or the Freedom Tower. So while it's true they haven't measurably regressed, Dolan's use of the prefix "pro" strikes us as a bit much. If we were him, we might have played it safe and gone with "evident gress." There are definitely clear signs of gress. —Sam Anderson
 
Man...I turn on the Celts/Bulls game in Chicago and the team in Green is beating the team in white...but its the Bulls in green and the road Celtics in home white...:huh:
Note to city of Chicago...St. Patrick's Day is the 17th, not the 13th.
 
Hewson said:
Man...I turn on the Celts/Bulls game in Chicago and the team in Green is beating the team in white...but its the Bulls in green and the road Celtics in home white...:huh:
Note to city of Chicago...St. Patrick's Day is the 17th, not the 13th.

Umm, why would you ever wear green against the celtics??? especially when it isnt on the 17th...
 
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