Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
That's a pretty good comp as well.
NBA 2019-20 Thread
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That's a pretty good comp as well.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Might be the fact that I live in Green Bay, but Reggie White was shocking and really sad.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Reggie didn't have nearly the far reaching popularity and fame that Kobe did.
Dale Earnhardt's death was a shocker to lots of folks, but again nowhere near as far a reach as Kobe's.
There have been plenty of athletes with sudden and shocking young deaths,
some aviation accidents like Kobe's (Thurman Munson, Payne Stewart, Corey "Is Bono OK?" Lidle, )
There's been murders (Sean Taylor)
Car accidents (Pelle Lindbergh, Derrick Thomas, many others)
Boat accidents (Steve Olin/Tim Crews, Jose Fernandez)
Suicides (Junior Seau, Dave Duerson, Jovan Belcher)
All are sad and shocking, but none have been an athlete as world renowned as Kobe. Add in his daughter and the other passengers and this certainly stands alone as the most stunning sports death probably as far back as Lou Gehrig (no I wasn't around then).
Dale Earnhardt's death was a shocker to lots of folks, but again nowhere near as far a reach as Kobe's.
There have been plenty of athletes with sudden and shocking young deaths,
some aviation accidents like Kobe's (Thurman Munson, Payne Stewart, Corey "Is Bono OK?" Lidle, )
There's been murders (Sean Taylor)
Car accidents (Pelle Lindbergh, Derrick Thomas, many others)
Boat accidents (Steve Olin/Tim Crews, Jose Fernandez)
Suicides (Junior Seau, Dave Duerson, Jovan Belcher)
All are sad and shocking, but none have been an athlete as world renowned as Kobe. Add in his daughter and the other passengers and this certainly stands alone as the most stunning sports death probably as far back as Lou Gehrig (no I wasn't around then).
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mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Yeah I wasn’t sure about the reach of Reggie. He was very loved in GB obviously. Just thought he was more popular around the country. But I agree that Kobe’s reach was probably a bit further.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Reggie was certainly very well known to NFL fans at the time, but for an NFL player's passing to have a similar impact to Kobe's you'd have to be talking someone like Tom Brady now, or Joe Montana or Dan Marino in the 80's or Jim Brown in the 60's maybe. Would have to be one of the all time greats who is known to a large chunk of folks who don't necessarily follow the sport closely.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Yeah, Bowie had disappeared from the public eye for quite a while and there had been health rumours about him. It also seemed that he went out on his own terms, as the album and its accompanying PR (plus its release date) had some air of finality to it.
MJ’s death was a shock for sure, but he was a recluse who I don’t think people felt as much of a personal connection to. Kobe was often on talk shows, going to games, being very productive in his “second life”.
I think it’s the combination of his young age, his media exposure, his popularity, and the sensational nature of his death that makes this such a bigger deal than anyone else. I’m not sure if your John Lennon comparison is so far off, even though they were completely different cultural icons. Both were past the part of their lives that they will most be remembered for, and were working on more modest projects while spending more time with their families.
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iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
Yeah I don't think MJ was all that shocking given how public his many health struggles had been. This Kobe thing came completely out of nowhere.
I wasn't alive but I'd have to think Roberto Clemente is on that list.
In my life time? Man...
Princess Di
Freddie Mercury
Prince
Cobain
Tupac
Biggie
Aliyah
Steve Irwin
Heath Ledger
Michael Jackson
I think Diana is the closest due to her world Fame and shocking and sudden death, plus the way it happened is similar in that it was a high impact crash.
In my life time? Man...
Princess Di
Freddie Mercury
Prince
Cobain
Tupac
Biggie
Aliyah
Steve Irwin
Heath Ledger
Michael Jackson
I think Diana is the closest due to her world Fame and shocking and sudden death, plus the way it happened is similar in that it was a high impact crash.
cobl04
45:33
Yeah in my lifetime there's only four: Diana, Steve Irwin (great call), Heath Ledger and now Kobe.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
this is the one that hit me the hardest personally from that list both because it was so sudden and he left a very young family behind, but of course his kids were safe and sound (and now carrying on steve's work in some pretty awesome ways, i might add) so as tragic as that was it doesn't come close to this.
as far as league-wide permanent memorials to kobe go, i'm hugely in favour of changing the logo to his silhouette, over retiring his numbers for teams he never played for. if players want to do that informally as a personal tribute then absolutely go for it but i don't think it should be an official thing for all teams. jerry west has asked repeatedly for the logo to be changed, the NBPA has expressed interest, and the designs floating around look cool as hell.
The tributes that are taking place right now are enough, and I'm sure what LA does will be appropriate. They'll give him a statue. They'll name something after him.
There is zero need to change the logo or retire his jersey numbers. I get that emotions are high, but realistically that's not something that will happen (nor should it happen) for any number of reasons.
The logo? What happens if Michael Jordan dies shockingly next year. What about LeBron? There's also the issue of the league never actually admitting that the logo was Jerry West (the original artist only said that he took inspiration from a Jerry West photo). For obvious financial reasons the league will never acknowledge that the logo is anything other than a generic image. This will not change - nor should it.
The only numbers to be retired league wide are Jackie Robinson, a heroic civil rights icon, and Wayne Gretzky, the undisputed greatest player in the history of the sport.
Kobe is neither of those things.
Kobe is considered a top 10 player of all time, but there are legit arguments that he's more in the top 20 than top 10. He's an incredibly complicated person. You can not simply ignore Eagle, Colorado - no matter how hard he tried to redeem himself in the years that passed.
There is zero need to change the logo or retire his jersey numbers. I get that emotions are high, but realistically that's not something that will happen (nor should it happen) for any number of reasons.
The logo? What happens if Michael Jordan dies shockingly next year. What about LeBron? There's also the issue of the league never actually admitting that the logo was Jerry West (the original artist only said that he took inspiration from a Jerry West photo). For obvious financial reasons the league will never acknowledge that the logo is anything other than a generic image. This will not change - nor should it.
The only numbers to be retired league wide are Jackie Robinson, a heroic civil rights icon, and Wayne Gretzky, the undisputed greatest player in the history of the sport.
Kobe is neither of those things.
Kobe is considered a top 10 player of all time, but there are legit arguments that he's more in the top 20 than top 10. He's an incredibly complicated person. You can not simply ignore Eagle, Colorado - no matter how hard he tried to redeem himself in the years that passed.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
If the NBA were to ever change the logo from Jerry West, there's only one fitting replacement, no disrespect to Kobe, but its the logo that many folks already have on their Nike sneakers.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
The NBA will never change their logo to an obvious player's likeness because of the obvious financial considerations to doing so. It's why the league themselves has never acknowledged that the logo is inspired by this photo
In NBA world, it's merely a generic player.
In NBA world, it's merely a generic player.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I don't disagree with your main points (although I think that Top 10 status is something that players, if not players and coaches as well would agree on), and I don't think they should do a league-wide jersey retirement or make Kobe the NBA logo, but you're also forgetting one thing: Michael Jordan was/is an asshole, and has been for decades. Chicago press kept a lot of stuff quiet back in the day but we all know many details that are off-putting to say the least. And we still don't know the whole truth about the gambling/"retirement" period.
He may have been doing some high-profile charity work as of late, but we can go back to his Hall of Fame induction speech to see what kind of person he really is.
Unless the sole argument is that the logo should be him because he's the best ever, he's also an "incredibly complicated person" who shouldn't be representing all that the league supposedly stands for. Just because he wasn't also a rapist doesn't make him an attractive logo candidate.
IMO, and I say this as a lifelong Lakers fan, it should be Bill Russell over anyone else.
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I know full well Jordan is not the nicest guy on the planet.
Just that he's a far more recognizable icon than Kobe, LeBron or anyone else who has played in the league ever. That's the only reason I would make him the logo if there were ever a movement to change it by the league,
Even a guy like Russell with all his titles doesn't come close to the level of recognition of Jordan.
Just that he's a far more recognizable icon than Kobe, LeBron or anyone else who has played in the league ever. That's the only reason I would make him the logo if there were ever a movement to change it by the league,
Even a guy like Russell with all his titles doesn't come close to the level of recognition of Jordan.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
They should make Barkley the logo.
Nice round logo. Almost look just like a ball.
Nice round logo. Almost look just like a ball.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
there's no way nike would ever let the association use the jordan brand logo as the new NBA logo. at least not without demanding the kind of payout that would cause the NBA to think "maybe we should pick someone else".
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Right. It's the Nike logo that's so recognizable. And how do you create a new Jordan silhouette that would be so obviously him?
The other issue with using Kobe is that this would be a second logo modeled after a Laker player. Not sure all the other teams would be too stoked about that.
My choice of Russell wasn't so much about his popularity but about his historical significance; if we're going to replace a logo "depicting" a white player with one using an African American, I think he would be a fitting choice due to the adversity he had to overcome, his status as a player-coach (and first black coach), and, you know, the fact that he won 11 titles in 13 years, a number no one will even match half of in that timespan ever again.
The other issue with using Kobe is that this would be a second logo modeled after a Laker player. Not sure all the other teams would be too stoked about that.
My choice of Russell wasn't so much about his popularity but about his historical significance; if we're going to replace a logo "depicting" a white player with one using an African American, I think he would be a fitting choice due to the adversity he had to overcome, his status as a player-coach (and first black coach), and, you know, the fact that he won 11 titles in 13 years, a number no one will even match half of in that timespan ever again.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Just to be clear, when you guys say 'nike' logo, you mean the jumpman, right, and not the swoosh?
For reasons already stated, the NBA will never change the logo. But if they did, the jumpman should absolutely be the choice. It's completely iconic.
As far as other ways to memorialize Kobe, I've heard some people suggest naming the ASG MVP after him, since he had arguably the greatest, longest ASG career ever(and the regular MVP is already named after Maurice Podoloff and the FMVP after Bill Russell).
Also heard it suggested that the Most Improved Player award be named after him, because that kind of improvement in one year suggests the work ethic/mamba mentality he was so famous for.
For reasons already stated, the NBA will never change the logo. But if they did, the jumpman should absolutely be the choice. It's completely iconic.
As far as other ways to memorialize Kobe, I've heard some people suggest naming the ASG MVP after him, since he had arguably the greatest, longest ASG career ever(and the regular MVP is already named after Maurice Podoloff and the FMVP after Bill Russell).
Also heard it suggested that the Most Improved Player award be named after him, because that kind of improvement in one year suggests the work ethic/mamba mentality he was so famous for.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I fully agree Russell deserves recognition for all the reasons you mention, and he has it as the finals MVP trophy is now named for him (though its not exactly a household name for the trophy ala Stanley Cup or Lombardi Trophy).
My point regarding the logo (and I honestly don't think it ever should or will change at least not in my lifetime) is that the logo should be something folks recognize and acknowledge, and the only silhouette that most folks immediately would recognize is the Jordan logo. And yes as Dave said I know Nike would demand a king's ransom, hence why I think it won't ever change.
There's not a recognizable Kobe logo out there to my knowledge anyway.
Side note for those who can see humor even in a time of tragedy:
Heard a caller to sports radio yesterday say he was in favor of a new logo featuring Kobe, so long as it was Kobe taking a contested long 2 point jumper early in the shot clock while the other 4 Lakers stood unguarded under the basket
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
:clap:
I think the above suggestion of All-Star MVP being named for him is a pretty fitting honor.
I imagine they’re going to do something notable.
I think the above suggestion of All-Star MVP being named for him is a pretty fitting honor.
I imagine they’re going to do something notable.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
Showtime2 is airing some Kobe shows starting at 10pm EST.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
game recognize game
Doesn't matter till the owner sells.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
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