MLB Hot Stove Edition

[TheBrush]

Delgado

Viva lost Mets 2006 !!

1. Reyes
2. Beltran
3.Wright
4. Delgado
5. Floyd
6. Nady
7. V Diaz
8. Catcher

not bad at all.

who's on second? Actually who's on first whats on second but thats a different story.
I don't think Diaz could play second. Nady would be in right if Delgado is at first. If they sign Molina or Hernandez or trade for LoDuca Anderson Hernandez might play second.

Although if they trade for Loduca why not trade for Luis Castillo as well. (Don't really know what we would have to trade) since the mets tried to sign him anyways. ( Not my idea but I like it anyways).


I dont think I would want Manny now. I mean hes what pushing 34 and isnt a great fielder to start. Seems like trouble.

Unless he sees the mets add Wagner, Delgado...and perhaps a catcher, and says..."hmmm, they may be serious about winning, I don't give a shit about winning, but maybe I could hit in this lineup as well as I have in Boston and Cleveland)".

Bottom line his numbers wouldn't be as great here. They still would be very good, but no DH to rest him, so he would have to take games off. No prolific lineup(its looking good, but not Boston or Cleveland good).

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

victor diaz was a second baseman in the minors, but i seriously doubt they'd have him at 2nd.

as for manny... the met fans who dislike manny make me nuts. we're talking about one of the greatest hitters and RBI guys we will ever see. an all time guy. we're not talking about bobby bonilla.


as for the lineup next year... my take as of now...

1. jose reyes - ss
2. carlos beltran - 2b
3. david wright - 3b
4. carlos delgado - 1b
5. cliff floyd - lf
6. victor diaz - rf
7. ramon hernandez - c
8. anderson hernandez - 2b
9. pitcher


now for the red sox fan... speaking of manny ramirez... last i heard you guys needed a first baseman... what would you think of delgado being spun off to boston now in part of a manny ramirez trade?

 

[Numb1075]

TheBrush, if Manny were to come to the Mets, he can DH for all of the Interleague games in American League parks. That would give him at least a dozen nights off from playing the field.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

soriano might be the more logical, more affordable choice at this point.

 

[TheBrush]

victor diaz was a second baseman in the minors, but i seriously doubt they'd have him at 2nd.

as for manny... the met fans who dislike manny make me nuts. we're talking about one of the greatest hitters and RBI guys we will ever see. an all time guy. we're not talking about bobby bonilla.


as for the lineup next year... my take as of now...

1. jose reyes - ss
2. carlos beltran - 2b
3. david wright - 3b
4. carlos delgado - 1b
5. cliff floyd - lf
6. victor diaz - rf
7. ramon hernandez - c
8. anderson hernandez - 2b
9. pitcher


now for the red sox fan... speaking of manny ramirez... last i heard you guys needed a first baseman... what would you think of delgado being spun off to boston now in part of a manny ramirez trade?

ummmmm....so wheres Nady, I think hes better both a better hitter and fielder than Diaz. Are you assuming they will trade him? Or do you think he will be used as a utility guy at first and in right. I would still think he would start.

I know he was a 2B in the minors, but he wasnt exactly Rogers Hornsby.



I don't hate Manny, Hes a great hitter. But there would be a bit of a drop off at shea, bc of playing time and lineup.

True we are not talking about Bobby Bo. Maybe robby asshole though. Remember the discussions when Alomar came to the mets about being the best second baseman and who cares if hes old or played entirely in the AL. Well no one say that coming. And the town got on him in a sec. and if Manny would get off to the start he got off to this year the fans would want want him out as quickly as they wanted him in.

 

[TheBrush]

soriano might be the more logical, more affordable choice at this point.

Again, A guy in a great hitters park, and in a great hitting lineup. I shudder at the thought of this.

where would he hit. Reyes and Beltran 1/2. I mean the top of the lineup looks good.

I don't mean to be hatting on your suggestions, they may very well happen, I just don't want to see them happen. But Since Im not the GM I doubt I have any say in what the mets do........I will be lucky if I am still their starting catcher this year. Hey guys im affordable. After all the spending that might be done, I might be a reasonable option. My marketing campaign....." I may not be good...but at least Im slow"

 

[randhail]

Bottom line his numbers wouldn't be as great here. They still would be very good, but no DH to rest him, so he would have to take games off.

Manny only DHed 2 games last season for Red Sox. There has actually been a steady decline in the amount of games he has DHed.

2001 - 87
2002 - 50
2003 - 26
2004 - 18
2005 - 2


He's by no means a gold glover, but he isn't completely incapable either. Sure, he'll have some boneheaded plays but what he does with the bat more than offsets this.


In addition, according to David Ortiz, Manny wants to go to a West Coast team, so not the Mets. Then again, Ortiz was also the guy who last year said there was no way Pedro was going to the Mets.

 

[Chizip]

as for the lineup next year... my take as of now...

1. jose reyes - ss
2. carlos beltran - 2b
3. david wright - 3b
4. carlos delgado - 1b
5. cliff floyd - lf
6. victor diaz - rf
7. ramon hernandez - c
8. anderson hernandez - 2b
9. pitcher

having 2 guys to cover the second base position would be an interesting strategy. but i guess it would guarantee no ground ball woul dget through there

 

[TheBrush]

TheBrush, if Manny were to come to the Mets, he can DH for all of the Interleague games in American League parks. That would give him at least a dozen nights off from playing the field.

Yea, but you know he would need day games after night games off.

I know someone mentioned moving Floyd while we could still get something good for him while hes at his peak value( maybe you or headache said this) and I agree, but I would really hate to see the mets give up Milledge for Manny.


BAH!!! I dont know anymore........


Im saying this now, but if a trade like that happened, I would be on this board talking about how excited I am, LOL.

 

[TheBrush]

having 2 guys to cover the second base position would be an interesting strategy. but i guess it would guarantee no ground ball woul dget through there

We had two guys at first a while back......MO and Vaughn and plenty got through there.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

having 2 guys to cover the second base position would be an interesting strategy. but i guess it would guarantee no ground ball woul dget through there

shove it

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

ummmmm....so wheres Nady, I think hes better both a better hitter and fielder than Diaz. Are you assuming they will trade him? Or do you think he will be used as a utility guy at first and in right. I would still think he would start.

I know he was a 2B in the minors, but he wasnt exactly Rogers Hornsby.



I don't hate Manny, Hes a great hitter. But there would be a bit of a drop off at shea, bc of playing time and lineup.

True we are not talking about Bobby Bo. Maybe robby asshole though. Remember the discussions when Alomar came to the mets about being the best second baseman and who cares if hes old or played entirely in the AL. Well no one say that coming. And the town got on him in a sec. and if Manny would get off to the start he got off to this year the fans would want want him out as quickly as they wanted him in.

xavier nady is a bench player. that's what he was in san diego, i have no reason to think that he'd be anything more with the mets, unless of course they trade more guys and a spot opens up.

as for roberto alomar? come on now... are you really comparing roberto alomar to manny ramirez?

look my dislike for the red sox is well documented... but damn it, manny ramirez is one of the greatest hitters i have ever seen. look at his batting average, homers and RBIs since 1998...

1998 - cleveland - .294, 45, 145
1999 - cleveland - .333 44 165
2000 - cleveland - .351 38 122
2001 - boston - .306 41 125
2002 - boston - .349 33 107
2003 - boston - .325 37 104
2004 - boston - .308 43 130
2005 - boston - .292 45 144

the man is a beast... and let's remember, he got off to an absolutely horrific start last year... and still ended up hitting 45 and 144.

please don't ever put manny and roberto alomar in the same sentance again.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

more on the mets potentialy turning into the yankees...

From ESPN.com

But it's true. No matter how much cash the Mets insert in the wallets of free agents, Manny Ramirez, Carlos Delgado or all those talented and charming players they already have added this winter, their luxury tax next year is guaranteed to be exactly ... zilch.

Same with the Angels, who were No. 4 (just behind the Mets) in the 2005 payroll standings. Or the Phillies, who were No. 5. Or any other team not known as the Yankees or Red Sox.

That's because -- as first noted by CNN.com's Chris Isidore -- back in the crazed pre-agreement hours leading to the 2002 labor deal, the frenzied labor negotiators inserted a mysterious clause into the impending deal.

That clause says, essentially (in language way more complicated than this) that any team that didn't pay luxury tax in the 2005 season is 100 percent off the hook in 2006.

and also... they have a new network starting this year, which is a gold mine.

they also will be breaking ground on a new stadium within the year... which not only amount to a huge increase in revenue come the expected 2009 completion, but on top of that... as per the current CBA, if you build a new stadium with your own money, you do not have to pay luxary tax for the length of the construction (which means the yankees won't have to, either)

 

[phanan]

now for the red sox fan... speaking of manny ramirez... last i heard you guys needed a first baseman... what would you think of delgado being spun off to boston now in part of a manny ramirez trade?

Now that is an interesting theory. Delgado has had proven numbers every year, and while he still isn't on Manny's level, it would take care of 1B and get out of his contract, which is quite larger than Delgado's.

I don't think that's such a bad idea.

Then again, Delgado is still due $48 million over the next three years while Manny has $57 million left. That isn't such a major difference and Manny is a more fearsome batter than Delgado, so another player would have to be included to intice the Red Sox more, I think.

 

[phanan]

Manny only DHed 2 games last season for Red Sox. There has actually been a steady decline in the amount of games he has DHed.

2001 - 87
2002 - 50
2003 - 26
2004 - 18
2005 - 2

Of course, the main reason for this was the arrival of Ortiz, who has DHed almost exclusively in Boston the last three years.

 

[TheBrush]

I wasnt saying Alomar is Ramirez. But Alomar was considered one of the best players in the game when the mets obtained him, which is what Ramirez would be and look how that turned out for the mets.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

there were signs that alomar was tailing off that were obvious that the mets and met fans just ignored.

no such signs exist with manny ramirez. don't even put them in the same thought.

*edit

and on top of it... roberto alomar was never... NEEEEVER... held in the same esteem that manny ramirez is.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

"Manny is not returning to Boston," Ortiz told reporters Monday in his native Dominican Republic. "Manny is living through a difficult situation (in Boston) that only he and his family know and he no longer wants to play there."

Ortiz said he spoke to Ramirez last week, before the left fielder left for Brazil, and that Ramirez had told him he wanted to "go to a team in the West."

"I found out that they (the Red Sox) are doing everything possible to trade him," Ortiz added.

It's worth noting that while Ortiz is a great hitter, he isn't always right. This is the same guy who famously had this to say about Pedro Martinez last winter: "Pedro ain't going to no Mets."

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

delgado slammed the mets last year because omar used his latin american heritage to try and get delgado... which is ironicly enough exactly what helped land beltran and pedro.

who knows... delgado has some issues, but he's also supposedly great friends with beltran. so maybe that'll give beltran a kick in the butt, or perhaps they can both stink together.

 

[Hewson]

I wonder what Calzone Steinbrenner is thinking as the Red Sox land Josh Beckett and the Mets land Carlos Delgado, and the Yanks have no desirable prospects in their system to pull of these type of deals currently.

 

[TheBrush]

there were signs that alomar was tailing off that were obvious that the mets and met fans just ignored.

no such signs exist with manny ramirez. don't even put them in the same thought.

*edit

and on top of it... roberto alomar was never... NEEEEVER... held in the same esteem that manny ramirez is.

Really???????

Check out his stats the last year with cleveland before he came to the mets. It was his best offensive year. No, No I dont agree.

Manny did have one of his lowest BA years and he would not have Ortiz protecting him here, or a great caliber hitter in the lineup like he has had throughout his career.

Again, please don't ignore the fact that I said Alomar was never Ramirez, I understand this, I was just making a point as that a proven commitidy is not always proven until he plays in New York. No one say the problem with Alomar coming, NO ONE.

If I had to choose one of the two in their prime, Ramirez is a no brainer, it was just a comparision. And being a mets fan like yourself a painful one. No one should be compared to Robby in our eyes. haha.

But I see your point, I think I just didn't explain myself properly.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

"i wonder if i can trade a-rod to the tyson chicken people for more of that chicken flavored beer"

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Really???????

Check out his stats the last year with cleveland before he came to the mets. It was his best offensive year. No, No I dont agree.

Manny did have one of his lowest BA years and he would not have Ortiz protecting him here, or a great caliber hitter in the lineup like he has had throughout his career.

Again, please don't ignore the fact that I said Alomar was never Ramirez, I understand this, I was just making a point as that a proven commitidy is not always proven until he plays in New York. No one say the problem with Alomar coming, NO ONE.

If I had to choose one of the two in their prime, Ramirez is a no brainer, it was just a comparision. And being a mets fan like yourself a painful one. No one should be compared to Robby in our eyes. haha.

But I see your point, I think I just didn't explain myself properly.

oh no... you explained yourself prefectly clear.

robbie alomar had a sub par second half of the season the year before the mets traded for him, and cleveland basicly got rid of him for nothing. plus for some reason second basemen just seem to break down earlier. and not for nothing, but his best statistical year was three years before the mets got him.. then he had a crappy year, had a good year right before hte mets got him, but then tailed off considerably upon arriving with the mets.

as for manny... yea, his batting average was low. but that can be attributed to his horrific start last year... by june he was the old manny. the man was an absolute beast down the stretch.

and i'm sorry, i for one believe that manny ramirez will do better without david ortiz than ortiz would do without manny.

 

[TheBrush]

Manny and his personality could not survive that hoffic start you described if he was a met.

Again you failed to see my point, even when I said I would rather have Manny so I guess Im out of ways to explain that.

How is hitting .336 tailing off. He slugged higher and hit a career high in 3B before coming to the mets. 01 and 99 were his best years and he was a met in 02. He had a great year. There were no signs of his skills diminishing. Again NO ONE saw that.

And what is this for nothing crap. They gave up Alex escobar. Yea he isnt much now but at that time he was considered a young Griffey, He was talked about slightly less than Milledge.

They also gave up Matt Lawton and riggan to get him so it wasnt for nothing.


Now dont tear me a new one for comparing Escobar to Milledge I said slightly less. And you cant look at what Escobar is doing now.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

they gave up nothing. period.

and i'm sick of hearing about lasting milledge... if the mets really thought lastings milledge was such a great friggin prospect why in the hell did they go out and give carlos beltran 119 million dollars last year?



and the only place that is on par with new york as far as pressure is boston. if manny can survive there, he can survive here.

 

[TheBrush]

haha.

Calm yourself my friend. We are on the same team here.

Ok, you have a strong case on everything except your last post. Come now, they gave up something to get him. But I guess your def. on nothing is kinda fucked up. The number #1 or #2 two ranked minor leaguers are nothing I guess.

Because the mets want to win now silly billy. They signed Pedro so why wait for Lastings Milledge...OH YEA PEDRO WILL BE RETIRED BY THEN.

(ROOK TAKES QUEEN)
ouch

 

[Numb1075]

I agree w/ headache. if you have the opportunity to get manny ramirez - you do it. plain and simple. MONSTER !

When was the last time the Mets had a guy who drove in 145 runs (or 165 for that matter)? the answer is never. So, you figure if the mets got manny, Manny is a year older now, switching leagues, and play half of his games in pitcher friendly Shea stadium, that he would drive in 120 runs and not 160. I'll take it.

PS, Delgado had some insane #s too up in Toronto. I feel that he would/will have a tougher time adjusting to NY then Manny would. Delgado spurned the Mets last year to take a lesser offer from the Fish, made fun of Minaya and his posse, and won't stand for g-d bless america. He better get off to a hot start because he'll get booed louder than Kaz Matsui or Mo Vaughn.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

haha.

Calm yourself my friend. We are on the same team here.

Ok, you have a strong case on everything except your last post. Come now, they gave up something to get him. But I guess your def. on nothing is kinda fucked up. The number #1 or #2 two ranked minor leaguers are nothing I guess.

Because the mets want to win now silly billy. They signed Pedro so why wait for Lastings Milledge...OH YEA PEDRO WILL BE RETIRED BY THEN.

(ROOK TAKES QUEEN)
ouch

Perhaps it's because the deal that brought Alomar to the Mets last December was universally regarded as a coup -- practically a street-robbery of the Indians, whose GM, Mark Shapiro, was theoretically fleeced by Steve Phillips.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/klapisch_bob/1389990.html



and as for your little thing that they signed beltran because of pedro... that's great and all, except for the fact that they signed beltran for 7 years.

so were they waiting for milledge for 7 years?

don't be fooled by the well hyped minor leaguer... if they're really that good, the team will make every opportunity to set up a timetable for that player to arrive at the big dance (unless you're the tampa bay devil rays). so why then, if milledge is the future, would the mets sign a still in his 20s centerfielder... WHEN THEY ALREADY HAD A CENTERFIELDER?

the future for the mets revolves around david wright and jose reyes... not lastings milledge.

checkmate.

 

[phanan]

The comparison of Alomar and Ramirez doensn't work. Why? Because with one glance at Alomar's stats, you can see that he has had two, maybe three excellent years and the rest are above average, but not phenomenal.

One look at Ramirez's stats, and you clearly see that EVERY YEAR he's been in the big leagues from 1995 and on has been incredible. His batting average slipped below .300 last year, but his power numbers went up, so I don't see how that is a sign of him tailing off.

 

[TheBrush]

Last time I checked there are two other outfield positions my friend. The core has been described as Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Milledge (may hernandez we will have to wait and see).

That article was written after Escobar blew out his knee or whatever sidelined him so yea it looked like a steal........I glad you live in a nice little world whereeverything fits nicely in a box. Oh this guy didnt turn out to be great so its a steal.


Hindsight is always 20/20