MLB 2009 Part 3

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Headache, it could be argued that the Yankees don't even get this far without A-Rod, Burnett, Sabathia, and Teixeira.

Whereas, unless he left someone out, Peef's list only showed Ibanez as a big free-agent signing, and he's nowhere near the most essential player.
 
My list was only the lineup. I believe the list of Yankees from the organization that Headache compiled came from the entire roster.

The only big deals on the Phillies roster are Ibanez (free agent - $31 million), Lee (trade for four prospects), and Lidge (trade for Bourn and prospects). The rest all came from the organization or were signed to small deals before they became established.

Sabathia, Texeira, and Burnett ... in one off-season. That's something different entirely and to deny that is a stretch.
 
A guy on the end of his career who'd been out of baseball for close to a year and got $1 million for it because no one else would risk it on him? Yeah, that's not the same.
 
GirlsAloudFan said:
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Let the showdown begin.
 
lazarus said:
Headache, it could be argued that the Yankees don't even get this far without A-Rod, Burnett, Sabathia, and Teixeira.

Whereas, unless he left someone out, Peef's list only showed Ibanez as a big free-agent signing, and he's nowhere near the most essential player.
Click to expand...

Do the Phil's get there this year without Cliff Lee?
Do they win it last year without Brad Lidge?
 
Right, but it's the in-between because you're giving up homegrown talent to get said person. In theory, there's supposed to be an even value in homegrown talent given up. That's why I don't mention A-Rod, because like Headache said, they gave up homegrown talent to get him.
 
Surprisingly however, nobody complained about the Yankees' payroll exceeding $200Million last year when they missed the playoffs, or in 2007 when they lost to the Sabathia and Lee Indians in the ALDS or in 2006 when they lost to the Tiggers or in 2005 when they lost to the Angies...

Nobody complained about the big money they spent on the free agent likes of Kevin Brown or Carl Pavano...

But now that they won again...the system is flawed and skewed only toward the Yanks, even though this decade has seen the D'Backs, Cards, Marlins, Phils , Red Sox, White Sox, Angels all win WS prior to the $200Million Yanks breaking through.
 
Read how I wrote it...I said nobody complained "when they missed the playoffs"...or "when they lost" a playoff series. At the end of each of the past nine seasons, folks would poke fun at them because of their inabilty to win the whole enchilada with such an exorbitant payroll. Lots of people around here were snickering about it over the past several years...."a billion dollars and no titles".

This is their first title since busting through the $200Mil payroll level, after 6 or 7 years of trying, while in that time teams have won with much lower payrolls (most specifically the Marlins and Cards), and now that they've won I see quotes like "It's such a thoughtless way to assemble a team".
Thoughtless? To whom? To the teams they want to beat? Are they supposed to try and lose?
 
I blame Major League Baseball more than I blame them, but I do think that they'd struggle if there was some sort of salary cap, and I think that's the overriding point here: how would the Yankees organization do if they could only spend $150 million? $130 million? They've made a lot of mistakes over the past decade and every year, they can just come back and throw more money somewhere and hope it works.

I mean, if they could put together a ballclub this good for $50 million less, they would, wouldn't they? But that takes a skill I don't think the Yankees organization has.
 
lazarus said:
Headache, it could be argued that the Yankees don't even get this far without A-Rod, Burnett, Sabathia, and Teixeira.

Whereas, unless he left someone out, Peef's list only showed Ibanez as a big free-agent signing, and he's nowhere near the most essential player.
Click to expand...

and it couldn't be argued, because it's fact, that the yankees wouldn't get that far without the home grown players they have. what is your point?

and you can't bring up a-rod... he was gotten in a fair trade, not as a free agent signing.

hate the yankees because of the smug arrogence of their douchebag fans, like i do... but to hate on them because of anything else is just sour grapes.

it's been proven that low budget teams can be highly succesful, and teams that pay large sums of money can flat out suck. teams like the pirates and royals just don't give a shit. they suck, threaten and hold their small market's hostage for new or renovated stadiums, and don't even attempt to put a good product on the field after they get what they want... and that's a crime, and a much bigger problem than the yankees, who've only been operating this way since the 1920's, ever have been or ever will be.

if how the yankees operate was any real threat to major league baseball's well being, then the sport would have folded decades ago, as they've been doing this since 19'fucking'19.
 
To argue that the lack of a cap doesn't hurt small market teams is ridiculous. Can small market teams compete? Yes. But they have everything line up just right for them to do so. Take a look at the Tigers. 2006 was a fantastic year because everything broke just right for them. Then they had a couple of bad signings and a few injuries and they're looking at a huge hill to climb to get back into the playoffs. As the PeefDawg said, the Yankees can afford to take bigger/more risks as an organization because they have a lot more money. However, I disagree with PDawg in that I believe the Yankees are well run.

Sure there are teams like the Pirates and the Royals who have terrible owners and organizations, but there are a whole host of small to midmarket teams that want to win and would greatly helped by a salary cap.
 
Wow, had no idea Seattle was that high.

And Purple Lips makes more than the entirety of the Pirates. There are so many funny-yet-sad facets to that.
 
Hewson said:
What...just because the Tiggers have The 5th highest payroll in MLB, they're still a small market team, only the Yanks, Mets Cubs and Red Sox are large market team.
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The Tigers have a high payroll after a conscious decision by a good owner to increase the payroll because he believed we had a window in which he could bring a World Series title to D-town. Now, the team would love to get back to the middle of the pack, but we've too many bad contracts to do so.

I heard fans bitch about the Marlins two firesales, but that's some damn good business by an owner with a limited revenue stream. I'm sure the fans in Pittsburgh or Kansas City would love (LOVE) if their organizations could build a team and then pour money to get them the extra mile. Fuck, I'm sure Twins fans would love that.

The Twins are a perfect example of how the lack of a salary cap hurts middle market teams. I don't think you'd find many knowledgeable fans that would argue that the Twins are one of the best run organizations in the sport. BUT, because of their limited revenue streams, they cannot go out and spend outrageous money on top level free agents year in and year out. So, they've got two options: they could build up their organization with home grown players until they have a strong nucleus, trade away the next level of prospects for pieces and spend a lot to bring in veteran free-agents that will push them over the top. The problem with that is that they can't sustain a payroll that high for more than a year or two, so inevitably they're going to have a fire sale and start the process over again. Or they can choose to go primarily with home grown talent and midlevel free agents and hope that they can get the mix just right every once in awhile and bring home a title.

The Yankees, on the other hand, are like the Twins in that they work hard at bringing up good home grown talent (though even here they have an advantage because the Yankees can afford to spend a lot more money on foreign players and pay the major league level salaries of the best prospects), but they have the revenue streams to supplement their home grown talent EVERY YEAR with the top free agents.

I don't hate the Yankees. They are abiding by the rules and they do what they do very well. BUT MLB would be a much more interesting league if there was some sort of cap that leveled the playing field a bit.
 
Imperor said:
Wow, had no idea Seattle was that high.
Click to expand...

Thanks to a couple really, really, really bad signings. 35 million coming off the books this offseasons (and that's not even including the dead weight of Carlos Silva).
 
The argument about Carl Pohlad being one of the wealthiest owners in the game is the most ridiculous arguments out there. You know why he's one of the wealthiest owners in the game, cause he knows it's really fucking bad business to pour more money into a business than you get out.

That doesn't make any sense. The Yankees don't have more money because the Steinbrenners reach into their private pockets every offseason. They have more money because their revenue streams are greater than any other team.

This shit ain't hard.
 
If the people behind the Marlins' organization had the Yankees kind of revenue, they'd probably win the World Series every year.
 
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