McGwire. Yes or No.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

So now that Bruce Sutter got into the hall of fame by default, it's time to move on to a class with players who are actually deserving...

First time balloters for next year include Cal Ripken Jr., Tony Gwynn, and... Mark McGwire.

Now before last March 17th, there is no way Big Mac wouldn't have been a first ballot lock for Cooperstown, but today i'm listening to the radio and there's a guy from the daily news on who has a Hall of fame vote saying that he won't vote for McGwire and he doesn't think he'll get in on the first ballot.

So... a poll. Will he, won't he, should he?

 

[randhail]

Will he? That depends on the thought process of the baseball writers. His testimony before Congress certainly didn't help his cause, but he never did fail a drug test. You'll have some people vote for him because of the lack of a "smoking gun". Some people won't vote for him because of all the circumstantial evidence.

It's certainly going to be interesting to see how it plays out since he is basically the first and prime guys from the juiced era to become eligible.

As much I as I may hate myself for this, I'd vote for him and I think he will get in. The summer of '98 still lives on for me, even if it was tainted. He and Sammy did bring baseball back in a big way that summer. If he had ever failed a test, I would say no way. The lack of definite proof puts him in, but with a lot of 2nd thoughts and doubt.

 

[MrBrau1]

No.

He's a stain on the game.

 

[Numb1075]

Yes, he should get in, unless some proof is brought to light.

 

[Hewson]

Only if he goes in tandem with Jose Canseco.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

maybe they can do the forearm bash on the stage

 

[randhail]

maybe they can do the forearm bash on the stage

 

[Chizip]

Not that I'm condoning it, by what I want to know is why everybody so outraged and quick to throw the book at steroid users yet look the other way from amphetamine use.

Both Willie Mays and Hank Aaron have admitted to using amphetamines to help give them energy and get up for games, much like steroid users do it so they can recover quicker and feel better. And considering Mays and Aaron, and so many others, were willing to use illegal harmful drugs then maybe they also would have used steroids if they were available at the time.

I just think it's funny that people are so quick to condemn anybody that uses steroids, yet blatantly ignore others who have used illegal drugs to enhance their performance.

That said, I don't see how you can keep McGwire out of the Hall with absolutely no hard eveidence against him.

 

[greeneyedgirl]

Thankyou, Chizip

 

[Mr. BAW]

He won't get in next year...Gwynn and Ripkin are locks but not McGwire...His performance in front of the Commission was his version of Costner's Waterworld...done, toast and jump the shark.

However, a few comments...who are the sportswriters that vote on the inductees? Are these young sportswriters who no longer remember the play of Jim Rice, Bert Blyleven, and 40 or so others who deserve entry to the Hall? How about the old sportswriters, is it possible that they remember and vote upon the integrity of the game where accomplishment and achievement was not tarnished by the thought or use of enhancements? Who are these voters and why do they have so much power to keep the deserved out of the Hall???? A future member requires 74% of the vote and there are 500+ voters...12 or so didn't even bother voting this ballot...what's up with that...maybe we should be able to vote on who gets to vote...

 

[MrBrau1]

Not that I'm condoning it, by what I want to know is why everybody so outraged and quick to throw the book at steroid users yet look the other way from amphetamine use.

Both Willie Mays and Hank Aaron have admitted to using amphetamines to help give them energy and get up for games, much like steroid users do it so they can recover quicker and feel better. And considering Mays and Aaron, and so many others, were willing to use illegal harmful drugs then maybe they also would have used steroids if they were available at the time.

I just think it's funny that people are so quick to condemn anybody that uses steroids, yet blatantly ignore others who have used illegal drugs to enhance their performance.

That said, I don't see how you can keep McGwire out of the Hall with absolutely no hard eveidence against him.

I didn't realise Mays and Aaron were juicers as well.

They should be removed from the HOF.

 

[popacrobat]

yes.

 

[MrBrau1]

He won't get in next year...Gwynn and Ripkin are locks but not McGwire...His performance in front of the Commission was his version of Costner's Waterworld...done, toast and jump the shark.

However, a few comments...who are the sportswriters that vote on the inductees? Are these young sportswriters who no longer remember the play of Jim Rice, Bert Blyleven, and 40 or so others who deserve entry to the Hall? How about the old sportswriters, is it possible that they remember and vote upon the integrity of the game where accomplishment and achievement was not tarnished by the thought or use of enhancements? Who are these voters and why do they have so much power to keep the deserved out of the Hall???? A future member requires 74% of the vote and there are 500+ voters...12 or so didn't even bother voting this ballot...what's up with that...maybe we should be able to vote on who gets to vote...

Greg Jeffries actually got 2 votes.

That's how dumb these writers are.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

mark mcgwire should get in on the first ballot.

his stats are good enough to be a first ballot hall of famer, and there is zero hard evidence out there to prove that he did, in fact, use steroids.

same goes for barry bonds.

rafael palmiero? i have no problem with him not being elected to cooperstown... there's hard scientific proof of his abuse, and he was caught when steroids were actually illegal and tested for.

baseball didn't test for steroids when mcgwire played, just as they didn't test for amphedamine's when mays and aaron played.

there are spit ballers in the hall of fame. whenever i bring that up in an argument people always think i'm nuts for comparing a spitball to using steroids. i don't think i'm that nuts... only a little nuts. the simple facts are that players cheated with what was available at the time... be it the spit ball, spikes sharpened to the point where they were like razor blades, amphedamines, and now steroids.

the history of baseball, and the halls of cooperstown are filled with cheaters. why should we now all of a sudden start caring?

 

[Chizip]

i agree, hell even babe ruth had his special corked bat

 

[popacrobat]

im biased as mcgwire was my favorite player growing up so i love big mac

 

[Mr. BAW]

mark mcgwire should get in on the first ballot....why should we now all of a sudden start caring?

Because the sportswriters think they can direct the future, not gonna happen...$50 that McGwire is not in next year...you know where to find me, and I'll sure find you!

 

[MrBrau1]

im biased as mcgwire was my favorite player growing up so i love big mac

Aren't you upset with him?

I used to like him too, but he disgusts me now.

 

[LMP]

If anyone deserves to be in the HOF, it's Pete Rose

sure he gambled, and he finally admitted to it, but he was a great player and one of my favorites too. Surely he deserves a spot over the Forearm Bashing Steroid Morons

 

[randhail]

If anyone deserves to be in the HOF, it's Pete Rose

sure he gambled, and he finally admitted to it, but he was a great player and one of my favorites too. Surely he deserves a spot over the Forearm Bashing Steroid Morons

strongly disagree with you there. Shoeless Joe Jackson should be there over Pete Rose. Rose has the numbers, but is a complete scumbag who has little respect for the game.

 

[Hewson]

rafael palmiero? i have no problem with him not being elected to cooperstown... there's hard scientific proof of his abuse, and he was caught when steroids were actually illegal and tested for.

But Miggy Tejada spiked his Flinstone daily vitamin (it was a Bam Bam of course), he is innocent, unless Viagra is a banned substance.

 

[phanan]

With Ripken and Gwynn up for next year as well, I wouldn't be shocked if McGwire was skipped until the following year, perhaps to send a message. He'll still get in though, eventually.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

But Miggy Tejada spiked his Flinstone daily vitamin (it was a Bam Bam of course), he is innocent, unless Viagra is a banned substance.

it's always bam bam


i take batting practice, i take fielding practice, i take hyperdemic needles up the butt, i take viagra.

 

[Mr. BAW]

With Ripken and Gwynn up for next year as well, I wouldn't be shocked if McGwire was skipped until the following year, perhaps to send a message. He'll still get in though, eventually.

That's exactly what I meant to say, Big Mac will be passed over to send a message ...

 

[Chizip]

For all the writers who don't vote for McGwire on the first ballot in order to "send a message" they better do the same when players like Bonds make it on the ballot. At least there is actual proof that Bond's used steroids.

What message is really being sent anyway, "well even though we can't prove anything, players better not do anything to make us suspicious or else we won't vote for you the first year, even though we already voted for other players who took illegal drugs to enhance their performance." sweet message theyre sending.

i still dont see why taking steroids is considered a mortal sin while taking speed before a game is accepted.

and why does a message need to be sent anyway? to dissuade current players from taking steroids? well there is an actual steroids policy to do that now, so i dont know what sending a message would do.

 

[popacrobat]

Aren't you upset with him?

I used to like him too, but he disgusts me now.

not really. he already was an amazing power hitter, see his rookie season when he set the home run record in 1987 for a rookie with 49. if i recall correctly he could have had over 50 easily but went to be with his wife for his kid being born or something? either way he missed a bunch of games down the stretch, i believe.

mcgwire was a class act all the way, regardless if he took steroids or not. you can't prove it, anyway. if you want to ban him and keep him out of the hall i suggest we look at every other player in the hall of fame closely to see if they may have given themselves an advantage.


additionally, who knows where baseball would be without him and sosa's homerun chase in 1998.


it also takes more than muscle mass to hit homers, baseball is a game of timing and eye hand coordination. i'm not that heavy, in fact i'm fairly sknny, but i can still go yard now and then.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

that's the thing that annoys me the most about this entire steroid thing...

that homerun chase of 1998 SAVED baseball. and now the same baseball people who knew very well that all this steroid stuff was going on back then but ignored it in order to pad their own pockets are the same ones who are "outraged" now and trying to change things.

hypocrisy at it's finest.

 

[speedracer]

This isn't a criminal trial -- it's perfectly fair for writers to conclude that McGwire used 'roids when they vote.

If I had a vote, I wouldn't leave him off the ballot as a punitive action. But I'd have to think long and hard about how his probable steroid use (which, though not banned by MLB at the time, was clearly unethical) affected his career. Before 1994, he was a powerful yet injury-prone slugger. After 1994 -- well, you know what happened.

Discounting the effects of steroid use on his stats, I'm not sure he comes out much better than, say, Cecil Fielder.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

it's not fair because they don't know. do i think he did? yea... do i know? no.

i don't know how the voting goes, exactly... how many players you're allowed to nominate... but in my mind there's 4 sure fire hall of famers on the ballot next year... ripken, gwynn, rice and mcgwire.

 

[MrBrau1]

For all the writers who don't vote for McGwire on the first ballot in order to "send a message" they better do the same when players like Bonds make it on the ballot. At least there is actual proof that Bond's used steroids.

I don't want Bonds in the HOF either.