Interference Random Movie Talk V: The Final Frontier

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Well that certainly makes sense... they're trying to cloud the reality and truth of their situation by diffusing it through other means, especially in Bill's journey:

+ The orgy sequence with Mandy's sacrifice is later rebutted by Victor's explanation of the same events
+ Millich dealing with his daughter and the cross-dressers at night directly oppose what happens the morning after
+ Bill almost goes through his "transaction" with Domino, which would seem like a welcome release at the time... then he finds out she's HIV-positive.

In every instance, it's almost like he forces himself into believing the easier way out even when confronted with the evil or disgusting side of the same thing. When Bill and Alice meet again at the end, that definitely is reality, and also one of the only instances where they're in an actual, "normal" environment, like Laz said, and they just fucking decide to ignore all of what's occurred because they can't handle it... then the title made perfect sense. I pitied both of them by that point, but they're only resigning themselves to a loveless and poor fate by doing that, so I don't sympathize with either of them.

So I guess that means I'm subscribing more to your idea about the suppression of reality, but would have to watch it again with that mindset to really be sold on it.
 
Maybe not even suppression of reality, since that almost makes it sound like these two people are just in denial, and I think it's deeper than that. Because of the surrealism of the whole thing I feel it's almost more that they never really knew things were wrong to begin with (spend their whole lives not seeing the plain reality of it all... eyes wide shut, witnessing but not truly seeing) and that the events captured in the film just mark the last fraying fibers of that ignorance, before it all cracks under the pressure.
 
Maybe not even suppression of reality, since that almost makes it sound like these two people are just in denial, and I think it's deeper than that. Because of the surrealism of the whole thing I feel it's almost more that they never really knew things were wrong to begin with (spend their whole lives not seeing the plain reality of it all... eyes wide shut, witnessing but not truly seeing) and that the events captured in the film just mark the last fraying fibers of that ignorance, before it all cracks under the pressure.

True, and in the end they just decide to go back to keeping their eyes closed to the world around them. I think the surrealism comes into play when it's questioning their beliefs in how the world works, not knowing what's "true" and what's at work in their subconscious, kind of like you said, but now that it's in the forefront, they are only suppressing that reality, in a sense.
 
I don't think that at all. I don't think they're trapped in some state of denial or unhealthy marriage. A good sex life IS the solution to not being consumed by fantasies and jealousies. Just as her dream about running away with the sailor isn't something that really happened, Bill's explorations, real or unreal, don't amount to any kind of cheating either.

Read this final dialogue again:

Alice: Maybe I think...
...we should be grateful.

Bill: Grateful...

Alice: ...that we've managed to
survive through all of our...
...adventures...
...whether they were real...
...or only a dream.

Bill: Are you sure of that?

Alice: Am I sure?
Only as sure as I am...
...that the reality of one night...
...let alone that of a whole lifetime...
...can ever be the whole truth.

Bill: And no dream is ever...
...just a dream.

Alice: The important thing is...
...we're awake now...
...and hopefully...
...for a long time to come.

Bill: Forever.

Alice:Forever?

Bill: Forever.

Alice: Let's not use that word. You know?
It frightens me.
But I do love you...
...and you know...
...there is something very important...
...that we need
to do as soon as possible.

Bill: What's that?

Alice: Fuck.

***

To me, the point is that you can never know everything that your partner is thinking. Temptation is not something you can hide from or avoid, it's only something you can resist. And an imagination, including sexual fantasy, is part of being human. It's natural. But it's something that doesn't necessarily need to be shared. She's acknowledging that perhaps she shouldn't have voiced her fantasies to Bill in the first place; maybe she had because they weren't sleeping together much anymore. This sets him off on his own jealous journey, perhaps because he couldn't admit to himself (or her) that he DID have his own fantasies. Once he experiences them, opens himself up to them-and they're made much more vivid than her recollected monologues, he's clear-headed enough to understand the solution she presents to they're problem.

In short, I think they're going to be fine, even if Alice is uncomfortable with the pressure of the word "forever".
 
I agree with pretty much all of that. I said I don't agree that they're in some sort of denial to begin with. And I actively avoided getting into the meaty thematic content purposely because that could start another very long discussion on this. So, mesh Laz's thematic analysis with what I've said about the cinematic presentation of the story and you get something close to how I read it.
 
Hah, well said.

I should be getting either Barry Lyndon or Paths of Glory from Netflix within the next few days.
 
I'm about to eat a pizza and watch this brad pitt Jesse James movie.

i'll baffle you fuckers with my review tomorrow.
 
The Review of The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford by the Hooligan Girls Aloud Fan.

I can't wait.

lg_spectators_ap.jpg
 
I thought it was pretty great but it is a bit slow.

Laz-that picture is hilarious.
Those White Sox fans must make GAF proud.
Oh well, at least you got Obama.
 
Watchmen AND Star Trek... I don't know what I'm going to do with myself.

EDIT: For the Father and Son, a cast picture from Nine:

nine-cast1a.jpg
 
Well why not abbreviate "This city is afraid" to "This city's afraid" on top of it? Can't you see how unbalanced it sounds?

Not how Rorshach talks, either.

Hurm.
 
It would be easier to pass NSW through the eye of a needle than for Lance to enter heaven.

Let's just leave it at that.

Where the hell is NSW, anyway?
 
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