Harry Potter & the Deathly Hallows discussion ***SPOILERS!!!***

[Varitek]

No that isn't true according to the epilogue, I am pretty sure it was the grandmother. Ron and Hermione's kids' names piss me off as they are unexplained, Harry should have had another little one to be Sirius, and where was George with a little Fred?? Actually I'm just pissed I didn't get any George closure, there's many things I'm pissed about not getting closure on, many unanswered questions I thought would be answered, so I'm satisfied with pretty much all the answers we've got but unsatisfied with many things we didn't get. Hopefully between interviews and that charity book she might publish, we'll get answers.

And yes, everything they posted is 100% correct, and I'm incredibly glad I made it to the safety of my house without hearing any of it.

THough an obnoxious kid on a bike rode by as I made a beeline for my car and shouted "Harry dies on page 482." I said "Nice try, but it's 800 pages long, you'll have to do better than that." The page number, however, was shockingly close to the place in the book where I cried the most tears, about 10 pages earlier at Dobby's incredibly heroic and perfectly Dobbyish death.

 

[Butterscotch]

The "Harry dies" screamers must have been in every town, they were here too. Teenage boys driving by in cars outside the Books A Million hollering it out and upsetting the little kids. Funny it wasn't true. I didn't get a book but my friend did and I'm going to borrow hers when she's done. I am anxious though and don't mind spoilers, it won't ruin it for me because I want to know. I wouldn't want to go thorugh all that and then have Harry die so it's good to know now he won't.

I agree with you there should have been nore of a tribute to Fred, and why didn't Ron name a kid after him? I like what I see of the epilogue, it even sounds like something I'd make up, but there should have been even more detail.

Looks like overall JKR went for crowd pleasing instead of shocking, and that's fine with me.

 

[Varitek]

I'm ok if George named a kid after him, like I said, there's just so much I wanted to know that wasn't there, and for this much of a world that she created, fanfic or my own imagination/hopes are not going to cut it.


I do think JKR went for fulfilling the plot she laid out 17 years ago, actually.


I think in the end, I'd read and done too much academic analysis on books 1-6, I wanted Snape to be more complex than she made him. And I think in the end, she's an amateur, untrained writer with a brilliant imagination, that the plot holes in other books could be explained away in the future or in interviews and maybe some of the open questions I have now will be explained, so I'll be less unsatisfied by those holes later (again, totally satisfied by what was there...there's just so much that wasn't...). And I think after the "nice big knot" stuff and all that pressure, I kept finding things she should have done in the books. Many already have criticized her pacing, and I agree, it was terribly awkward, but I'm not sure how that could be fixed. But there were just little things (I'm not even going to get into the gaping epilogue holes) that I would have put in to make it more poignant, more meaningful, which I think it lacked in some ways from the other ones. Like, laying clothes on Dobby's grave, a better goodbye to Fred from George, a scene in the Pensieve to explain the question she KNEW we'd all still have about why Lily got with James - he could have simply given Harry a memory after the OWLS and before the prophecy/Godric's Hollow where Snape continued his old ways and spied on Lily, either getting with James or at the wedding with some explanatory speech. Things like that, and the awkward pacing, made me lose some respect for her as a writer, but I maintain my immense respect for her imagination and plot skills, for the world she created, for what the Deathly Hallows turned out to be, to surprise us when the Horcruxes were so much more easily guessed - which after all makes sense, if we couldn't guess them after many rereads, how would Harry ever have known or figured it out from living it once??

And with that, I'd better clean up the wreckage of coffee cups and tissues that surround the couch and go to bed.

 

[Irishteen]

I just finished reading it, I absolutely loved it

But why did Dobby have to die?

 

[anitram]

I finished it a couple of hours ago.

Overall I liked it but thought the epilogue was totally lame and formulaic and predictable. It's like fit peg A into slot A and you get an InstaFamily. Really could have done without it.

Fred's death could have been written to have more impact. It just happened very quickly for me, maybe a little too quickly. I feel vindicated re: Snape because he's always been my favourite, since the very beginning. Although his love for Lily was also kind of lame, I do like his general path to redemption. I really wish we'd have gotten more Snape, though, because the opening chapter where he was heavily featured was really dynamic. And Dumbledore definitely became a more interesting character to me in this last book. You saw some of that emerging from OOTP onwards, but this one esepcially.

 

[Varitek]

Dobby was the saddest part for me, Harry's death wasn't because a little piece of me thought he'd come back somehow. The first time I got really teary, though, was when Harry finds Lily's letter - and I loved James's disembodied legs chasing Harry in the picture, and Sirius giving Harry a broom.

Snape's death was quick, but then we got the whole chapter of his memories, which made up for it. And the part where he asks Harry to look at him, damn.

I don't see how we could have had more Snape, it's from Harry's point of view and he had to think Snape was a Death Eater. Maybe at the Malfoys' but we needed Voldemort to still like Snape.

I am really quite angry at how Snape flew, Voldemort too, but Snape especially. What, did he transfigure himself into a bat? It was one of those things that seemed a little too convenient, like Harry's visions.

I don't think they did justice to the twins' relationship after Fred's death.

 

[corianderstem]

OHMYGODTHATWASSOGOOD

Now to read the thread and see if any of the spoilers were right.

Okay, so those spoilers in that fake YouTube video were true, so I was spoiled for a few of those deaths. UP YOURS, CANADIENS.

But yeah, the epilogue was a little silly. But I can live with it.

I always hated those stupid house elves, and was surprised that I teared up at Dobby's death. Loved the big battle scenes. It didn't bother me all that much that not much time was spent dwelling on Fred's/Lupin's/Tonks' deaths. Everything moved so fast at that point - if JKR had taken time to put more emotion/fallout into the aftermath, the damn book would have been another 100 pages. Maybe they could have done a little more with that in that scene in the great hall, where Harry puts on the cloak again, but I think it's safe to say that all the characters were pretty stunned and exhausted, and everything probably hadn't yet sunk in.

I think I enjoyed this book the most out of the series.

There were a couple of tidbits that made me laugh out loud, which I don't recall reading in previous books:

"Our headmaster is taking a short break," said Professor McGonagall, pointing at the Snape-shaped hole in the window.

Snape-shaped hole!

 

[Varitek]

I think some of the disappointment I'm feeling with all my unanswered questions is just disappointment that it's over, that I'll never again read the early books with the great mystery (I'm sure this book will enhance them in a different way, though), and we'll get some answers out of interviews. I really did love reading it, I tore through it, I laughed, I cried, I felt their despair camping and so happy when they put 2 and 2 together on RAB and the diadem and there were many moments that made me so proud of so many supporting characters. And I always wanted the 4 to survive, I couldn't bear if they didn't, and now that they did it seems kind of Disney, but still, I finished with this elation that my brain full of unanswered questions then got in the way of.

 

[YellowKite]

I was home by 12:30 and read it all straight through. I alternately jeered and cheered aloud and a few times I put it down just to absorb it.

I was actually more torn up about Hedwig dying than you would imagine. Possibly because I know how much my pets comfort me.

I still want to know what Dudley saw as his worst memories and who did magic late in life?

I thought that Ginny was shortchanged. Just a bit about how her underage magic would hinder them on their quest and a discussion with Harry at some point that was more than her saying she didn't want to be left behind again and again and a kissing scene.

I thought Snape deserved to have a bit more redemption that maybe he realized his actions were remorseful on their own than only for the loss of Lily as friend and possible love.

If Snape had to die to be redeemed then don't you think that the Malfoys deserved to lose someone?? I mean I was surprised that JK didn't kill Lucius. I can see how she might not kill Draco or his mom, but for Lucius to survive - maybe some mention of his being punished at least.

Did anyone think that Ron's character was shortchanged by his leaving? That his struggle with being less than Harry somehow has been done and could have been dealt with in a direct confrontation without separating the threesome for weeks.

And didn't you just really want to know what the hell Aberforth was up to with those goats to get in trouble all those years ago!!

I am dying waiting for my friends to finish reading. I have even gone back and done a review of some chapters.

Overall I loved it. I am distraught that it is at an end and I am hoping that my next reread from Book one to seven still holds the magic knowing the ending. Although that epilouge was a little fan-fiction-ny

 

[shika]

Varitek, I agree with a lot of what you say. I read the book in one sititng (we got it at 9 am local time, fortunately) and was dismayed that it took some 200+ pages for any "action" to commence... I kind of realised then that it wasn't going to the Big Emotional Ending that I had been hoping for.

I had suspected that Harry would be some sort of Horcrux himself, so I was glad to see that happen, but I was immensely disappointed in other aspects. The build up to "main characters" dying was, I felt, completely unwarranted. Snape's death seemed inevitable, (if clumsily dealt with - too many 'empty' pages before his Double Agent thing was confirmed) but I personally only count Harry, Hermoine, Ron, Ginny and perhaps Hagrid and Neville as main characters and none of them went down. (If I sound disappointed, it's not because I'm sadistic; more that I wanted a "real" ending, not a Disney one. Perhaps JK was influenced by the growing cinematic audience, rather than any burning desire to challenger her readers?) I feel a bit fooled, to be honest.

As for Neville - there were allusions in earlier books that he might be a link with the ending and yet his beheading of Nagini was just washed over - and perhaps I didn't read closely enough - but where/how did he get the sword??? And I thought, seeing as she so neatly linked characters together at the end, that he and Luna would ride off into the sunset...

I also wanted to see Voldermort react more to the destruction of the Horcruxes.... the fact that he had to go back and check on them was just laughable - surely he would have been able to sense when they were destroyed? Voldermort, in this volume, appeared to be skittish, cartoon-ish, and not the intimidating force that JK had created in earlier books.

And what about Neville's parents? Luna's mother? Sirius going behind the curtain-thing? The role of the Ministry? The Malfoys, for crying out loud?! I thought that Draco would have a more pivotal role in proceedings, although the wand link was interesting. And the foreshadowing of Petunia and perhaps Dudley in the beginning went nowhere - Snape's pensive memories filled in a few gaps, but not enough, I thought, to tie it all together.

Perhaps, as I think Varitek said earlier, I also read the previous books too closely and looked for links and deeper meanings when they never really existed... I do feel deeply disappointed however. I wanted JK to be 'brave' and take us as readers to a place that literature doesn't always take us. I guess I didn't necessarily want the "happy ending".

I've got tonnes more to say, but I shall wait to hear others' comments and in the meantime, start a second reading. Convince me that I'm wrong, peoples, and that this is indeed a great book!

 

[Varitek]

I don't think she was influenced by the cinema - she's been clear that she's had a plan all along, two extra people died (I think Lupin and Tonks) and one got a reprieve. My money's on Hagrid, as he appeared dead for a bit and came back, and she's always said she loves Hagrid, but it also could be Draco or Neville or another Weasley. I didn't think any of the 4 would die, as I said upthread, and I don't think she ever planned it, having read the book, because of the burgeoning romances and the fact that none of them looked ready to die in a major battle. Though maybe originally Ginny was meant to be killed by Bellatrix, but she decided to add the "NOT MY DAUGHTER BITCH" scene instead.

I'm a little ways in on my second reading and being hypercritical, I'm trying to get back to where I was the first time when I was just lost in the book (except those little "we guessed it" moments) and really enjoying some of the humor and the moments of pride.

 

[corianderstem]

I'm a horrible Harry Potter fan - I didn't feel sad about the deaths of Lupin, Tonks OR Sirius!

They just never grew on me, and I felt no connection to them.

 

[Varitek]

If Snape had to die to be redeemed then don't you think that the Malfoys deserved to lose someone?? I mean I was surprised that JK didn't kill Lucius. I can see how she might not kill Draco or his mom, but for Lucius to survive - maybe some mention of his being punished at least.

Did anyone think that Ron's character was shortchanged by his leaving? That his struggle with being less than Harry somehow has been done and could have been dealt with in a direct confrontation without separating the threesome for weeks.

And didn't you just really want to know what the hell Aberforth was up to with those goats to get in trouble all those years ago!!

Haha goats. Anyway...

I liked the Malfoys. I liked that Draco's parents showed that they loved their family more than Voldemort and his power, unlike Bellatrix. I liked how Narcissa lied to see her son, and I liked that the good side could then demonstrate forgiveness.

I was a little pissed at Ron, but it was in some ways about time he and Harry had a row, and I do think the locket had a much stronger affect on him...something about those Weasleys and pieces of Voldemort's soul... It sucked, but so does life, and in the end, as Harry said after that great scene where Ron comes back, Ron always would come back.


One more thing...Hermione is brilliant. I love it!

 

[Varitek]

http://gawker.com/news/biggest-spoi...rry-potter-and-this-is-how-it-ends-280299.php

Best spoiler ever...I had a whole bunch I wanted to look at after the book, and that one is hilarious!

 

[Saracene]

I think I need to re-read the book more slowly to let the details sink in because I practically raced through it yesterday. A few thoughts:

- Wow, it was *dark*. I braced myself to see one of the Weasleys die, but Lupin and Tonks, Dobby, Hedwig? Sheeeeesh. I was so convinced that at least one of the Marauders would have a happily-ever-after, That entire generation has been dealt one crappy deal.

- Dumbledore, posthumously, turned out to be a much more ruthless, flawed, manipulative and complicated character than I ever imagined and JKR thoroughly debunked the whole saintly twinkly image he's had for the last six books. Personally I loved this unexpected development, I look forward to re-reading the series with this new twist on the character in my head.

- Snape... bless his black broken heart; I totally picked him for a secret die-hard romantic behind that cold, dead-eyed exterior. No real surprises there except that I wasn't expecting to find out that Snape really did ask Voldemort to spare Lily, as many fans suggested, and that he and Lily were childhood friends. I liked the way his general unpleasantness and blood prejudice came to the surface in those childhood flashbacks, and the way Dumbledore underlined that Snape was willing to let James and Harry die as long as Lily was safe. Love for Lily may have made him cross over to the good side but did not automatically make him a better person. Snape's last line before death was incredibly poignant.

Unlike many fans, I fully expected Snape's story to be quite straightforward in the end; at the end of the day the books have never been about him and all those speculations about Snape playing both sides or being the ultimate puppet master never really rang true for me.

- The Pottercast had me in stitches.

- I really did not expect Voldemort to take over so soon into the book and Snape, of all people, to become a Headmaster.

- Neville kicked major ass! With so many loose ends and characters to deal with, I'm glad that JKR gave characters like him a chance to shine, however briefly.

- I'm still annoyed with the way JKR portrayed the Slytherins. Yeah, she gave us one Slytherin character who is utterly brave and capable of self-sacrifice, but then she also had DD say that perhaps Snape was sorted into Slytherin too soon. It's like, all Slytherins are self-serving bastards but Snape is not so maybe he didn't really belong there.

 

[corianderstem]

http://gawker.com/news/biggest-spoi...rry-potter-and-this-is-how-it-ends-280299.php

Best spoiler ever...I had a whole bunch I wanted to look at after the book, and that one is hilarious!

Ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa!

 

[GibsonGirl]

I finished reading it about half an hour ago. I always knew there was a reason why Snape was my favourite character.

It's a little surreal, you know. I first picked up Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone back in 1999 at the age of twelve. I was well aware of the Pottermania at the time, but I thought the books were for little kids, not for someone on the brink of being a teenager. How wrong I was. After thoroughly enjoying the first, I devoured the next two books in quick succession. I can still remember the excitement surrounding the build-up to the release of the fourth book. It was the same thing this time around, except it was mixed in with a bit of sadness. I am not ashamed to say I bawled like a little girl throughout the last few chapters. I'm probably going to have to go back and re-read the whole damn ending, as most of it was blurry. You know, on account of all the sobbing.

I really can't believe it's over.

 

[Tiger Edge]

I just finished it a few minutes ago.

I even read it in the car and while my friends came over to spend time with me. I must have been the worst friend to anyone today because I really didn't pay attention to anyone except Mr. Harry Potter.

The book was fucking brilliant. BRILL-IANT.
I really hated that I had to read it so fast because I know that I definitely missed a bunch of important details. I hadn't even realized that Lupin was dead until it was mentioned for the second time. Either way, I thought he was treated a little unfairly by JK. I never would have pegged Lupin for acting "cowardly," but I guess the major theme of this book is that people have varying levels. The good and the bad. I can see how Lupin would even be afraid of his own child and afraid of any blame that Tonks or her family would put on him for putting his family in danger. I nearly cried when he addressed Harry in the Pottercast and thanked him for calling him to his senses. You really got the feel that he saw Harry as an adult, especially since he had hurt him earlier. (!)

I really really loved Snape's storyline. He had always been one of my favorite characters, even moreso than Harry. It was obvious to me, from book one actually, that Snape was not a bad guy. He risked his neck for Harry too many times, and it was never because he owed James anything. His last words had so much weight behind them. He wanted to tell Harry the truth, to see Lily's eyes in her son's one last time...it was really chilling. I cried (almost aloud) when I saw that Harry had named his son "Albus Severus" and he said that Snape was one of the best Headmasters that Hogwarts had ever had.

As for the epilogue, I really wanted it, and I'm very glad we got it. It might teeter on cheesy, as some people here have mentioned, but would there be any other way to end such a heavy book? So many people had died, it was only right that the ending be filled with happiness by the new magical generation. No more Voldemort, no more worry. Everything right as rain.

Teddy Lupin! How adorable! That was a complete shock to me and a wonderfully pleasant surprise. Even though Lupin and Tonks had to die. I think it was really fitting to have the Sirius/Harry parallel. Especially since they were close to each other at the end.

Fred's death went by so fast, but I guess that's how it would be in battle.
Dobby's death had to be the saddest in the novel for me. If Fred's death was shocking, Dobby's was ten times over. I cried when Harry wrote the epitaph. "Here lies Dobby, a free elf."

Anyway, I'm very glad that I was away for the week on vacation and avoided every single little spoiler. It really did give me an incentive to read quickly before any word got out. Haha, we left the parking lot avoiding all cars with open windows fearing another "Snape killed Dumbledore" disaster.

I think I'll let it sink in a little longer before I pick it up and re-read a few choice chapters. Especially the chapter with Snape's memory. "Snape's Worst Memory" and this one are two of my absolute favorite chapters.

 

[corianderstem]

As for the epilogue, I really wanted it, and I'm very glad we got it. It might teeter on cheesy, as some people here have mentioned, but would there be any other way to end such a heavy book?

Plus, this way? Less horrid fanfic spawned by Potterfans needing to find out what happened 19 years in the future.

 

[U2MaNaIcWeIdO]

Plus, this way? Less horrid fanfic spawned by Potterfans needing to find out what happened 19 years in the future.

I like horrid Potter fanfiction

 

[Tiger Edge]

Plus, this way? Less horrid fanfic spawned by Potterfans needing to find out what happened 19 years in the future.

Although now Rowling has opened up a new can of worms with Albus, James, Hugo, Teddy, Lily and Rose. The fanfiction that will sprout from that will be overwhelming, I bet.

 

[bono_212]

It was so good...but that freakin' epilogue....I know we were all dying to now what becomes of Neville and also that Ted Lupin seems to be the unwanted child that's not REALLY a part of the family

Ok complaining aside, that's definitely tied as my second favorite book of the series, and if you knew me, you'd know that's a shock, as I was dead set to hate it after those last two books

 

[schnazdoodle]

I finished reading it about half an hour ago. I always knew there was a reason why Snape was my favourite character.

It's a little surreal, you know. I first picked up Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone back in 1999 at the age of twelve. I was well aware of the Pottermania at the time, but I thought the books were for little kids, not for someone on the brink of being a teenager. How wrong I was. After thoroughly enjoying the first, I devoured the next two books in quick succession. I can still remember the excitement surrounding the build-up to the release of the fourth book. It was the same thing this time around, except it was mixed in with a bit of sadness. I am not ashamed to say I bawled like a little girl throughout the last few chapters. I'm probably going to have to go back and re-read the whole damn ending, as most of it was blurry. You know, on account of all the sobbing.

I really can't believe it's over.

I feel the same way... I began Potter in 99 as well, but I was about 14... I waited in line for the midnight release of Goblet... It's really sad for me to think that, despite getting a reasonably satisfying ending, there is no more and that "chapter" of my life is now somehow ended... It's really quite sad.

And that epilogue -- good, but too short and no enough info!!! What about everyone ELSE?! Plus, there are still not enough details about those she does speak of...

 

[AtomicBono]

I also wanted to see Voldermort react more to the destruction of the Horcruxes.... the fact that he had to go back and check on them was just laughable - surely he would have been able to sense when they were destroyed? Voldermort, in this volume, appeared to be skittish, cartoon-ish, and not the intimidating force that JK had created in earlier books.

Well, I think maybe she was trying to show that Voldemort wasn't an all-powerful, fearless being just as Dumbledore wasn't a perfect beam of light. Surely all the times Harry had evaded death were taking their toll on Voldy. Though it does seem strange he couldn't even sense when the Horcruxes were destroyed... you'd think he'd feel something...

well i thoroughly enjoyed reading the book. I agree that the epilouge was cheesy, but I guess we needed it. I thought the most intriguing chapter of the book was Harry's conversation with Dumbledore. I was kind of hoping Harry was in fact dead and Rowling had actually chosen to take us with him beyond death, but the fact that he was sort of in limbo and had the choice to live or die...that was cool.

the fight scenes are gonna be so cool in the movies

 

[Varitek]

It was so good...but that freakin' epilogue....I know we were all dying to now what becomes of Neville and also that Ted Lupin seems to be the unwanted child that's not REALLY a part of the family

While the epilogue was immensely unsatisfying for what it didn't tell us, and Lupin and Tonks dying did not seem to get the attention it deserved, Ted came to dinner four nights a week and they were excited he was courting a Weasley (Bill and Fleur's daughter...which means he must be rather good looking...). Ted was raised by his Grandma Tonks.

I wanted to know where was George's son Fred, or somebody's son Fred.

I will second the notion that the epilogue at least prevented horrible fan fiction, though it may have spurned a "2nd generation" fan fiction minefield.

Voldemort - it made sense he didn't feel anything, at that point he was so terribly detatched. He didn't even know Harry was part Horcrux; coudn't feel that part dying right in front of him.

What do you guys think about the Dumbledore conversation - was it in Harry's head? Was it Dumbledore using his immense power to come halfway back from the dead to meet Harry, who was halfway dead but still tethered to the living world if he wanted to rejoin it? Was it just a jumped-the-shark plot trick by JKR to allow DD to come back and have the annual chat with Harry and explain it all? for we got some much needed explanations...

 

[struckpx]

I'm pissed Snape died. He was my dawg. He was Mr. Cool. It's cool how he went out, though. of course, this is going by what wikipedia said, haha.

If we aren't allowed to say this, please delete it moderators.

 

[Total U2 Nut]

Plus, this way? Less horrid fanfic spawned by Potterfans needing to find out what happened 19 years in the future.

True, but I thought the epilogue was pretty terrible. Albus-Serverus? God, imagine giving a kid that name.

I'm glad I managed to finish it before someone told me what happened, I was so twitchy yesterday when I went to buy it The saddest bit by far was Dobby's death "Here lies Dobby, a free elf." I thought the whole thing was a bit fast paced, and the last few chapters (bar the epilogue) were amazing Kinda sad it's all over now, ah well.

 

[major_panic]

Ye gods, talk about your lack of closure on a LOT of loose ends... the future of the entire Weasley family bar Ron for one, the various deaths which were almost a "by-the-way" thing, WHO becomes Minister after the 19 years, etc.

Could have been dealt with a LOT better, but still a bloody fantastic end to the series. It's been a long time coming, and that ridiculously gigantic battle of Hogwarts was what I think we all wanted. (Good luck to those who've gotta make that movie).

All in all, yeah, it was enjoyable.

 

[Butterscotch]

Why does everyone not like the epilogue? The only problem I have with it is it's not detailed enough, but I love who they married off to who and the happy ending, and the open door for a 'next generation' series someday. Sure, it's just like fanfic, but isn't it better to have that in the real story than to wait for fans to rewrite a miserable ending into something like that? What do you want, sad, lonely, tragic future after al they'd been through? Not for me.

 

[Tiger Edge]

Why does everyone not like the epilogue? The only problem I have with it is it's not detailed enough, but I love who they married off to who and the happy ending, and the open door for a 'next generation' series someday. Sure, it's just like fanfic, but isn't it better to have that in the real story than to wait for fans to rewrite a miserable ending into something like that? What do you want, sad, lonely, tragic future after al they'd been through? Not for me.

Even though I never really like the Harry/Ginny relationship because it moved so quickly in the 6th book. It felt like they dated for a week before it ended. But I can live with it. I was never a shipper for anybody in the first place.