CKONE
Acrobat
U2@NYC said:
Just be a little bit more objective, please.
Yeah, right, Garrincha...
garrincha was unbelievable. easily better than maradona.
in what way do you need me to be more objective??
Diego Maradona
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garrincha was unbelievable. easily better than maradona.
in what way do you need me to be more objective??
U2@NYC
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
CKONE said:
Well, I understand that it is hard. Given that you are English and it will be hard for you to admit Maradona in the Halls of Greatness...
1stepcloser
Rock n' Roll Doggie
CKONE said:
You may be a villa fan, which is great news, but garrincha was never better than maradona.
i saw that Brazil documentry too last night. Garrincha and Pele were amazing together but i still don't think maradona's level of talent has ever been reached or surpassed by anyone.
babyman said:
1960 Real Madrid
1961 Peñarol
1962 Santos
1963 Santos
1964 Inter Milan
1965 Inter Milan
1966 Peñarol
1967 Racing Club
1968 Estudiantes La Plata
1969 AC Milan
1970 Feyenoord
1958 Brazil
1962 Brazil
1966 England
1970 Brazil
Europe had nothing to teach to Pelé.
CKONE
Acrobat
1stepcloser said:
oh sod it - as a villa fan what the hell do I know about football!
The pro's obviously know what they are talking about and for them to pick Pele top is probably the closest we will ever get to settling the debate!
Cant beleive Garrincha isnt on the list though - he was amazing and that you must admit.
Better than Maradona?..........................probably
babyman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
guill said:
This means nothing, these are different kind of games. To play constantly in a championship for 34 to 38 games is pretty different. Playing in Europe would have increased his level in my opinion, you cannot compare the brazilian championship with the strongest european leagues. Not today, nor at that time
1stepcloser
Rock n' Roll Doggie
babyman said:
I agree. Also i don't like to bring stereotypes into it but Brazilian football is very, very attack-based. Almost every player on the pitch likes to attack or get forward. In Europe the game is more restrained and more emphasis is placed on defence. Most of the worlds top defenders play in Europe and i think would have been interesting to see how Pele would have got on against Europe's finest defenders on a club level week in, week out instead of once every 4 years for a few games.
babyman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Adding to that what you said, 1stepcloser, brazilian defenders learn in Europe how to defend. Brazil's football is amusing right because it is full attack, but under a defence-tactics point of view Brazil must thank that many of their defenders play in Europe. But in the same time European learn from Brazilians forward players
Di Stefano, Sivori, Didi, Vava, Altafini, Schiaffino, etc. They are all big stars and legends in Europe, i doubt that Pelé was inferior to them, give me a break, people played football outside Europe.
If all the South American players decided to leave European leagues and came back to their original clubs, European leagues would collapse.
If all the South American players decided to leave European leagues and came back to their original clubs, European leagues would collapse.
1stepcloser
Rock n' Roll Doggie
guill said:
Yep 'cos there's so many big name south americans that play in the English Premiership
babyman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
guill said:
They would never take the same money they take in europe!
Anyway, I doubt european leagues would collapse, at the contrary, many young guys would get their chances to affirm themselves. Don't forget that many talents are obscured by southamericans players (obviously because they're already affirmed).European football has got so many schools. Look at Ajax for example, they got bunches of new young dutch players every year, they bring them up, and then they sell them making lots of money. In Italy we got Atalanta for example, they got the brightest football school. Maybe, if all the southamericans would go away, like you have supposed, the level of many european kids would increase, and even the nationalteams would become stronger
jimmmm
Refugee
guill said:
Then where would all the south american players, playing in south america now, play, if all the south american players playing in Europe now decided to leave the European leagues, to go back to their original clubs?
intedomine
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
Celticfc said:
Cruyff was better than Maradona, so was Zidane. Puskas might have been to...
Maradona was good though. And I could watch the his perofrmance in the 1986 World Cup match against England over and over and over....
....mind you he was crap in the 1990 World Cup final.
CKONE
Acrobat
intedomine said:
and then further disgraced himself on and off the field in 94!!
babyman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
CKONE said:
You dislike the man, and this makes you completely blind on his football abilities. You should look at Maradona from 2 perspectives, not only from the negative one
CKONE
Acrobat
babyman said:
ok, putting aside my view that he is a cheating , overrated, drug abusing scrote I think it is fair to say he did disgrace himself on and off the pitch in 1994. He was nothing more than a mediocre player in 90. He cheated in 86. I think thats all pretty agreeable.
Was he a genius? - of course he was. Was he better as a footballer than Pele? - I dont think so. Was he better than Cryuff. Platini, Zidane, Puskas? - I couldnt say. Is he is own worst enemy? - yes. Has he clouded football judgement by his drug abuse? - almost definately. Had he remained clean his talent and skill and strength would never be in doubt. The fact he dabbled in all sorts means that whilst his early years can 'probably' be correctly assessed as genius the remainder of his career cannot be fairly judged because no-one but he knows what he was taking and the effect it had!
U2@NYC
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
CKONE said:
Sure, you can keep on saying that.
But you are clearly the minority.
The majority of football / soccer fans believe that Maradona was a genius. Like Pele.
So, fine, keep on sustaining your argument. I will not change my mind.
babyman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Maradona=
Oh, come on. you talked last time about Garrincha, don't you know that he was an incredible alcohol addicted and died when he wasn't neither 50 (I think), George Best had even the same attitudes, but you can't discuss his strenght, or can you?
He cheated in 86, but how many similar episodes are there in football? Tons. It's just because it was against England that makes you hate him. You never mention when he twisted a half team starting form the midfield, Shilton is still looking after Maradona, he still dreams him all the nights long
Hand of God..................., I prefer the left feet of Maradona.
Man of shit................., I prefer the football magician
Oh, come on. you talked last time about Garrincha, don't you know that he was an incredible alcohol addicted and died when he wasn't neither 50 (I think), George Best had even the same attitudes, but you can't discuss his strenght, or can you?
He cheated in 86, but how many similar episodes are there in football? Tons. It's just because it was against England that makes you hate him. You never mention when he twisted a half team starting form the midfield, Shilton is still looking after Maradona, he still dreams him all the nights long
Hand of God..................., I prefer the left feet of Maradona.
Man of shit................., I prefer the football magician
U2@NYC
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
intedomine said:
CKONE
Acrobat
babyman said:Maradona=
Oh, come on. you talked last time about Garrincha, don't you know that he was an incredible alcohol addicted and died when he wasn't neither 50 (I think), George Best had even the same attitudes, but you can't discuss his strenght, or can you?
He cheated in 86, but how many similar episodes are there in football? Tons. It's just because it was against England that makes you hate him. You never mention when he twisted a half team starting form the midfield, Shilton is still looking after Maradona, he still dreams him all the nights long
Hand of God..................., I prefer the left feet of Maradona.
Man of shit................., I prefer the football magician
Garrincha was a raging alcoholic apparantly as was Best. Of course the only difference here is that alcohol is proven NOT to enhance performance but if anything it detracts from performance. Maradona was taking illegal perfomance enhancing drugs in '94. Had he taken them before when the tests were far less rigorous? Who knows but it is that doubt that he himself created that makes it impossible to judge him.
Garrincha on the ball was clearly a better player than Maradona, It could be argued that Best was aswell (as endorsed by Pele!) although I dont like Best either.
Now if you want to talk proper footballers lets get onto Gary Shaw, Tony Morley, Dennis Mortimer, Peter Withe
CKONE
Acrobat
roy keane said:
love is blindness - so who is insane?
1stepcloser
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Only a short video i really don't think there have been any players quite as talented as this guy. Whether he took drugs at the end of his career doesn't really matter to me if we're judging players on football ability alone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YssYgOhwhVk&search=maradona
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YssYgOhwhVk&search=maradona
1stepcloser
Rock n' Roll Doggie
CKONE said:
Now if you want to talk proper footballers lets get onto Gary Shaw, Tony Morley, Dennis Mortimer, Peter Withe
Peter Withe - European Cup Final 1982 - Legend
Aston Villa FC - more European Cup victories than Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Tottenham put together
Then Doug Ellis took over...
CKONE
Acrobat
1stepcloser said:
Peter Withe - European Cup Final 1982 - Legend
Aston Villa FC - more European Cup victories than Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Tottenham put together
Then Doug Ellis took over...
You can add a lot more teams to that list aswell.
You might be interested in www.wmcollective.com
babyman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Drugs don't work at feet
