Desert Island Album Game II: Semi Final 2

[LJT]

Woah the prog genre seems more complicated than I thought

 

[Axver]

Woops, didn't mean to click post then. Oh well, I'm lazy, I'll do a second post.

Very true, and that's one of the challenges with this. Trying to make a mix that pulls those different sounds together. Obviously, today's neo-progsters have a different sound from classic prog, and in my preliminary stages of trying to sequence this thing together, I'm finding it difficult to make a good mix without it sounding too jarring from one song to the other.

I actually haven't found it too hard to weave classic prog in and out of modern stuff, though that may be due to my prog leanings being conducive to that sort of thing. For example, I'm not using any Yes; seventies Rush is much easier to slot in between 2000s neo-prog and a prog metal epic.

On the whole, I feel I've got the eras interwoven nicely, but at one point, I make a very deliberate point of having a sharp transition. I'm sure that may surprise some people familiar with my commitment to fluidity and flow in playlists, but I really want to make an artistic statement here and I think this sudden transition is a great way to illustrate that prog is a genre of considerable variation, possibly rock's most diverse subgenre.

I want to include as many artists as I can, but I often just prefer their longer songs. So far, I have six songs that breach the ten minute mark...it's enough to give some people in B&C a hernia. I might have to break up my killer ending. One song is 11:45 and the other is 10:45. It's no problem for me to listen to two long songs back to back, especially when I love them so much, but others might get bored.

You're going to break up such a short ending?

Personally, I've decided to throw all caution to the wind and simply make an artistic statement. I want to show that lengthy songs do not necessarily mean longwinded excess; some things simply cannot be adequately expressed within 5 minutes. To that end, my closing duo are 13:05 and 26:06 in length. Yes, I realise approximately two people are going to check out the 26 minute song.

 

[phanan]

I have Kayak on my list. "And I don't know if it's you I'm looking for, I'm only trying to find a reason for it all." Yes, they were blatant Yes ripoffs (made even funnier by the fact that I'm following their song with a Yes song), but they wrote some fantastic work.

Speaking of blatant Yes ripoffs, I was debating on using Starcastle, but I think they are going to miss my final cut.

And I have quite a few long songs as well. I don't want to leave things out, but at the same time, I really like how it's coming together, so there will be sacrifices.

 

[GibsonGirl]

You're going to break up such a short ending?

Personally, I've decided to throw all caution to the wind and simply make an artistic statement. I want to show that lengthy songs do not necessarily mean longwinded excess; some things simply cannot be adequately expressed within 5 minutes. To that end, my closing duo are 13:05 and 26:06 in length. Yes, I realise approximately two people are going to check out the 26 minute song.

See, this is why I love the prog desert island. Most people would recoil in horror at the idea of a 26 minute song, whereas we embrace it. This competition is going to be fantastic. I really hope it gets more folks in B&C interested in the genre.

 

[GibsonGirl]

I have two quick questions, by the way.

1. What is the proposed tracklist time limit for the upcoming tournaments? I remember a few threads back it was suggested that the limit should be allowed to exceed the 2 CD format of the current Desert Island game.

2. Are we limited to one song per artist? I think the original rule was that if one song bled into the other (as they so often do on prog albums), both songs could be used. I can't remember and couldn't be arsed to search for the old thread.

 

[got_edge]

Prague?

 

[Tiger Edge]

Prague?

Aks...
nevermind.

 

[got_edge]

lolololooooool


I'm awesome

 

[Screwtape2]

I have two quick questions, by the way.

1. What is the proposed tracklist time limit for the upcoming tournaments? I remember a few threads back it was suggested that the limit should be allowed to exceed the 2 CD format of the current Desert Island game.

2. Are we limited to one song per artist? I think the original rule was that if one song bled into the other (as they so often do on prog albums), both songs could be used. I can't remember and couldn't be arsed to search for the old thread.

1. It's now a 4 hour limit.
2. You CAN use multiple songs by an artist.

 

[GibsonGirl]

1. It's now a 4 hour limit.
2. You CAN use multiple songs by an artist.

I think I'll have to make mine a little shorter than that, as I already find it difficult enough to make a good tracklist with 2 CDs worth of music. Three hours seems like a good bet for me.

As for multiple songs, does that even apply to songs that don't flow into one another? Because that certainly would make things a lot more interesting for my own list.

 

[Screwtape2]

As for multiple songs, does that even apply to songs that don't flow into one another? Because that certainly would make things a lot more interesting for my own list.

Yep. For example I have two very different Pink Floyd songs (Careful With That Axe, Eugene and Dogs) in my playlist.

 

[GibsonGirl]

Fantastic. I have Dogs as well - it was my tracklist opener and I wasn't very comfortable with it there. Now I think I might put One Of These Days there...the Works compilation version that has the DSOTM effects at the beginning.

 

[Lila64]

Just thinking about Screwtape's five subsections of prog, I think it would be fair to add in a sixth, as I think a number of bands in this grouping really don't fit in any of the five categories.

6. Neo-prog: While some use "neo-prog" to refer to just about anything post-seventies, I'm using it here to refer to the "second wave" of prog that arose in the eighties at the hands of groups such as Marillion, IQ, and Pendragon. It really infused prog with some structural sensibilities derived from more popular music *cough*Marillion'sKayleigh*cough* and heightened the prominence of synethesisers in a way not seen in any other style of prog.



I'd be very interested to see what he'd submit. I'll probably start the rules/sign-up thread after the final of this tournament, so in about 5-6 days. If I were him, I'd give myself a goal or objective for the tracklist to help narrow down selections. Personally, when I realised I had 6.5 hours of songs, I decided prog metal wasn't the way I wished to go, so I cut it and focused on the development of a more sweeping atmosphere than is possible with the intensity of bands such as Dark Suns and Hammers Of Misfortune.



Heh, no, Genesis was very much one of the big prog bands of their time. I have a couple of their albums and they've done some fine work, but nothing I've massively fallen in love with. I'm glad I have The Lamb Lies Down and Selling England By The Pound, but it's a rare day when I'll pick them over, say, Porcupine Tree or Marillion or Pure Reason Revolution.

Keep me posted so I can keep him posted. Hard to keep up since this is actually a voting thread that's turned into a discussion

And he probably wouldn't be all "this flows into that" song. He just thinks he'd have some obscure stuff that you might not have heard of. Who knows. I think it would be interesting for him to do it, since this group of competitors might actually listen to the CDs as a whole.

 

[GibsonGirl]

Lila, you wouldn't happen to have Kayak II, would you? I've been looking for that album EVERYWHERE.

 

[Lila64]

I'll ask hubby

 

[Lila64]

He said there is no "II". There is a collection called "Kayak" and most of it is on there. The rest of it is on "Royal Bed Bouncer" as bonus tracks.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Go on, you know you want to vote for me. After all, mine's the only one of the two with Split Enz goodness.

actually, after much, much deliberation, i did decide to go with you.

i kept looking and comparing and couldn't decide, so i looked at both lists and wrote down the songs from each list i really liked. then, i also wrote down the songs from each list i really didn't like.

i liked u2vf's U2 song better, as well as the queen song. but i liked your police song better. your use of crowded house, neil finn, and split enz of course swayed it greatly in your direction. the fact that there were less songs on your list i didn't like sealed it.

of course, whoever loses this round i'll definitely be voting for in the next round, because like i said these are definitely two of my favourite playlists

 

[Axver]

17-17 with just under an hour to go?! Bah!!

It doesn't help that we lack a coherent policy on what happens in case of a draw.

And he probably wouldn't be all "this flows into that" song. He just thinks he'd have some obscure stuff that you might not have heard of. Who knows. I think it would be interesting for him to do it, since this group of competitors might actually listen to the CDs as a whole.

New prog stuff.

I'll certainly check out everything I don't already know and listen to the playlists in order.

actually, after much, much deliberation, i did decide to go with you.

i kept looking and comparing and couldn't decide, so i looked at both lists and wrote down the songs from each list i really liked. then, i also wrote down the songs from each list i really didn't like.

i liked u2vf's U2 song better, as well as the queen song. but i liked your police song better. your use of crowded house, neil finn, and split enz of course swayed it greatly in your direction. the fact that there were less songs on your list i didn't like sealed it.

Hooray! You know, I actually agree on the point that Bad > Treasure, but I feel Treasure worked so perfectly in that spot in the tracklist. I love the run from 6 to 10; I think all those tracks slotted together well. Though I can't agree at all that Radio Ga Ga > Long Away; sure, the former's a nice song, but Long Away is my favourite Queen song ever.

 

[Screwtape2]

17-17 with just under an hour to go?! Bah!!

It doesn't help that we lack a coherent policy on what happens in case of a draw.

A test of setlist knowledge?

Seriously, I guess we would poll the contestants either by them posting or responding to a PM in a 12 or 24 hour period.

 

[Axver]

A test of setlist knowledge?

Seriously, I guess we would poll the contestants either by them posting or responding to a PM in a 12 or 24 hour period.

Hmm. Perhaps. My preference is to follow the tournament's one precedent that we set with Fitz and Amy, by running the round again. However, as we'd all like to progress to the 3rd place play-off and the final, the re-run would only be open for a day.

What do you think?

(Though preferably, a last minute voter will rock up! This is nerve-wracking.)

 

[Screwtape2]

That would work but if we did that I don't think we should do the 3rd place game.

 

[Axver]

That would work but if we did that I don't think we should do the 3rd place game.

Why not? Is it your argument that such a run-off would clearly establish the loser as 3rd?

 

[Screwtape2]

Why not? Is it your argument that such a run-off would clearly establish U2VertigoFly as 3rd?

No, I just think that having the loser compete for another two days after three days of this round would be overkill for the voters. Plus when we do the awards it will be clear who would have been in 3rd place.

 

[Axver]

Aaaaand THAT'S A DRAW!

The way I see it, we have three options:

1. Both U2VF and I advance to the final and we have a three-way contest. I'm well aware that Screwtape's not a fan of this sort of option.
2. We run the round again, with the poll open for a day. This could, however, lead to the loser being declared outright 3rd and no 3rd place playoff being held. I feel a bit bad about this, as I don't want to deny Lance his shot at 3rd place. Though, that said, he'd lose that shot in the case of option #1 no matter what.
3. We poll the 24 contestants and the winner of that poll goes through. I quite dislike this system as I don't like the idea of an exclusive group determining the outcome.

I favour option #2, with further discussion on whether or not the 3rd place playoff will be held.

 

[Axver]

No, I just think that having the loser compete for another two days after three days of this round would be overkill for the voters. Plus when we do the awards it will be clear who would have been in 3rd place.

Damnit, you got to my post before I edited it. That old copy makes me look really bad! There was meant to be an "or I" in there, but when I edited, I figured "the loser" rather than "U2VF or I" was more clear. It just took forever for my edit to go through due to my Internet temporarily dying.

But anyway, I see your point. I'm honestly not sure what to do. I'd like further discussion and input.

 

[Screwtape2]

Aaaaand THAT'S A DRAW!

The way I see it, we have three options:

1. Both U2VF and I advance to the final and we have a three-way contest. I'm well aware that Screwtape's not a fan of this sort of option.

Actually, I'd choose option #1. I'm not a fan of three-way matches but it's the simple solution plus you and U2VF had such a tight match that the both of you deserve the spot. Part of me thinks it would be a tie if we ran it another day.

 

[Axver]

Actually, I'd choose option #1. I'm not a fan of three-way matches but it's the simple solution plus you and U2VF had such a tight match that the both of you deserve the spot. Part of me thinks it would be a tie if we ran it another day.

Well, yeah, that's true. For this entire match, neither contestant achieved a lead of more than 2 votes, and it was generally tied or just a margin of a single vote. The more I think about it, the more I wonder what the point of running it again would be - in most cases, the same people will be voting, and it'll really be a question of "who doesn't show up?"

Plus, like you say, it's quicker. I want to just get on with things. And this brings the Prog Island and the third edition of the full game closer.

Damnit, I don't know. Give me some time to think. I want to make a new round before I go to bed, but it's midnight already here so we don't have too much time to reach a decision. I just know that no matter what we do, SOMEONE will stroll in and say "whiiine, why didn't you do blah?" From past experience, that someone is usually a person who never would have contributed while we were working out what exactly to do though, so eh.

 

[Screwtape2]

Axver, when you make the final can you throw this in there too (it's the critic's corner which I'll keep score of):

With the final here we also reach the end of the year awards. The 24 contestants can fill this out to determine who deserves each award sort of a Critic’s Choice Awards. Vote for the top 3 who you feel deserve these various awards by ranking them 1-3 next to the corresponding award. Each 1st place vote equals 3 points and 2nd place 2 point and 3rd place 1 point. These will be tallied and the person with the most points receives that award. ONLY the 24 contestants can vote.

Best-
Most creative-
Most diverse-
Best songs-
Best mood-
Best flow-
Most unique-

 

[Axver]

Axver, when you make the final can you throw this in there too (it's the critic's corner which I'll keep score of):

With the final here we also reach the end of the year awards. The 24 contestants can fill this out to determine who deserves each award sort of a Critic’s Choice Awards. Vote for the top 3 who you feel deserve these various awards by ranking them 1-3 next to the corresponding award. Each 1st place vote equals 3 points and 2nd place 2 point and 3rd place 1 point. These will be tallied and the person with the most points receives that award. ONLY the 24 contestants can vote.

Best-
Most creative-
Most diverse-
Best songs-
Best mood-
Best flow-
Most unique-

I'm thinking I should actually make that as a separate thread, or perhaps try to personally e-mail/PM all the contestants. I don't want to add any more clutter to the final thread, especially as it may have three full tracklists - I'm currently swinging in favour of going with option #1.

Also, will we prohibit people from voting for themselves or not? Personally, I know I'll definitely vote for myself for "best songs", and I suspect most people will similarly vote for themselves in that category, if not others too.

 

[Screwtape2]

I'm thinking I should actually make that as a separate thread, or perhaps try to personally e-mail/PM all the contestants. I don't want to add any more clutter to the final thread, especially as it may have three full tracklists - I'm currently swinging in favour of going with option #1.

Also, will we prohibit people from voting for themselves or not? Personally, I know I'll definitely vote for myself for "best songs", and I suspect most people will similarly vote for themselves in that category, if not others too.

The e-mail/PM would work the best and yeah you can't vote for yourself. I forgot to add that. You could send the results to me and I'll do the tallying.