BOY OH BOY WOWEE It's the 2014 AFL Thread

[Axver]

Failed: AFL report says of Hawthorn's Tasmanian push

Oh just give them their own goddamn team already. Even if it is just a relocated Melbourne or St Kilda.

 

[bono_man2002]

Yeah they do. But a relocated team won't work. If I was Tasmanian both my heads and I would hate the idea of a club from Victoria that has been woeful for years to be sent down "re-badged" to Tassie.

Give them their own side built from scratch like the previous two expansion clubs. If they share home games between Launceston and Hobart it would work well. For the fans it's only a two hour drive from one town to the other and I think the strength of the local league could work as feeder to the team a bit like the VFL does for some clubs.

 

[Axver]

Do we have the depth of players to support more than eighteen teams? There is already a concern that we are draining the talent pool a bit much with Gold Coast and GWS. Now if footy can get New Zealand to be a source of players in a few decades, that would help (though New Zealand is already struggling to support ambitions to be good at anything other than rugby; just check out our on-again-off-again cricket team!). I'd love to see a proper expansion team in Tassie, but I feel like a relocated team is the more reasonable way to do it - and relieve Melbourne of the burden of supporting one of its unsuccessful, poorly supported, financially weak clubs.

Alternatively, force mergers to create two teams out of Melbourne, St Kilda, North Melbourne, and Footscray (North Melbourne Demons and Western Saints, anybody?), and you'll free up space to create a new Tassie team and give WA the third team it wants.

 

[intedomine]

The merger thing is such a touchy issue. The only club that I think would be willing to be a part of such arrangement world be the Melbourne Demons (a significant majority of their members supported the proposal to merge with Hawthorn in '96). But who with?

The Western Bulldogs are always bandied about as possible merge-material but they have significant growth possibilities, especially with the urban sprawl Westwards. Very much a team supported by their region, hence why you find very few fans in the Eastern/Northern/Southern sides of Melbourne and an absolute abundance of Bulldogs stickers on cars in western suburbs.

Melbourne Kangaroos perhaps?

 

[bono_man2002]

Let's just have Collingwood in Victoria and abolish everyone else.

EDIT: Sorry guys it looks like Eddie McGuire has hacked my account.

No. While I think yes depth is an issue but Tassie is an AFL state there is literally no competition for fan support at least. And bringing a team down there may increase the spotlight on the local state league meaning more players get sighted by AFL clubs. They don't have an A-League team, Netball, Basketball the only other sport that Tasmania is represented on a large scale is Cricket. (Unless I've totally missed something?!) it would be a massive boost for the whole state.

 

[Axver]

The merger thing is such a touchy issue. The only club that I think would be willing to be a part of such arrangement world be the Melbourne Demons (a significant majority of their members supported the proposal to merge with Hawthorn in '96). But who with?

The Western Bulldogs are always bandied about as possible merge-material but they have significant growth possibilities, especially with the urban sprawl Westwards. Very much a team supported by their region, hence why you find very few fans in the Eastern/Northern/Southern sides of Melbourne and an absolute abundance of Bulldogs stickers on cars in western suburbs.

Melbourne Kangaroos perhaps?

I think at some point fans have to accept their team will never be competitive by itself and, despite occasional bright spots, will always be the competition's whipping boy. St Kilda have had over a century to sort it out and still haven't. The Dogs are approaching a century to sort it out and still haven't. Melbourne were once great but haven't been for over half a century and don't look like getting back any time soon. North Melbourne have had their moments but have essentially no fans and limited prospects. However, merge those four into two teams and suddenly you have teams that are well-supported, possess considerable potential, and probably won't be short on cash. It makes sense for everyone except the one-eyed supporter who'd rather their team be bottom four forever than merge and win premierships.

Also, I suggested North Melbourne Demons because within that name you get to keep the "Melbourne Demons" name that the AFL and various aristocrats so desperately want to keep, what with it being the first team, but you also get to keep North Melbourne's identity - and you stop having a team just called "Melbourne", which is silly when there are so many other teams from the inner suburbs.

No. While I think yes depth is an issue but Tassie is an AFL state there is literally no competition for fan support at least. And bringing a team down there may increase the spotlight on the local state league meaning more players get sighted by AFL clubs. They don't have an A-League team, Netball, Basketball the only other sport that Tasmania is represented on a large scale is Cricket. (Unless I've totally missed something?!) it would be a massive boost for the whole state.

Judging by that article's stats Tassie is already over-performing in producing players, but you make good points. Especially re: not having teams in anything apart from cricket. I know I've said this in a past thread, but the AFL needs to not take Tassie for granted. If they don't set up a team there (through whatever means) and secure their market, the A-League or Super Rugby will eventually move in.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Dwayne Russell thinks Wingard is the best player in the competition ... after having a couple of touches.

Time to seek help Dwayne.

 

[Axver]

Dickhead Russell is a dickhead, but I am curious what would convince you, Vlad, that Wingard is even in the top ten. I can see you bagging him out even if in one season he won the Coleman by kicking 150 goals, won the Brownlow by a country mile, won the Norm Smith, and singlehandedly introduced full communism to Australia.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I think he's close to the top 10, maybe borderline. But the flashy stuff masks the inconsistency, in the same way it did/does for Cyril.

If he did the last thing though I would forgive him for everything.

 

[LemonMelon]

I'm so glad I've completely given up all hope for this season.

 

[Axver]

But but but inconsistency is delicious!

/bruce

 

[Axver]

Can't believe Giants went from being thumped by a team as woeful as Richmond to running the Hawks right down to the wire and now going blow for blow with the Bombers. I can't say I'm feeling entirely confident with just an eight point lead at quarter time...

 

[cobl04]

This made me feel sick.

Warning: Queensland being Queensland.

How about Bootsma getting the boot (sorry), folks? Classy fellow, sending nude snapchats to a teenage girl even though 1. he has a girlfriend and 2. she's pregnant.

I wonder if a half-decent footballer would have been dealt the same, ruthless treatment?

What fucking pissed me off was the fact that Heath Scotland, who was fucking convicted for assault, was kept on the books, but because Bootsma was fucking shithouse the club sees a chance to make a tough stand. Fucking bullshit.

 

[LemonMelon]

Well, yeah. If you have a shitty team and your season has been shitty yet your membership is huge despite years of being shitty you don't go out of your way to can your good players. Instead, you let the courts work it out and welcome them back when it's over. Then you hope their on field play erases the memories.

Talent = success = higher membership = $$$ = lenience

 

[cobl04]

I know, but it's still bullshit.

 

[Axver]

Giants look really good tonight, lots of pressure; they've shut down some of our best players, e.g. Watson. Thank god we're still in front.

Also, who on earth do the Saturday night boofheads mean when they refer to "Big Bear"? All I know it's a GWS player, and he's obviously doin thangs.

 

[cobl04]

Doubt we'll ever see a merger again. At least not in the forseeable future. Completely disagree with pretty much everything you said Ax, those clubs you mentioned aren't really struggling as much as you say and there is not a fucking chance that the support for a merged club anyway between St K, Dogs, Melb and North would grow. Supporters would be fucking furious, there's no way that the two supporter bases would simply come together and keep following a new club.

I am a firm believer in a standalone Tassie team but it won't happen for a long, long time.

Fuck I love Wayne Schwass.

 

[Axver]

Well, like I say, if people want to keep following perennial bottom four teams rather than maximise resources and win premierships, it's their loss. The Hawthorn/Melbourne proposal was stupid; Brisbane/Fitzroy worked but made no geographical sense (and as a result completely appropriated the old Lions); merging a couple of the weaker Melbourne clubs will make them more financially viable and competitive on-field and makes perfect geographical sense.

In an ideal world I'd love to see a competition with all the existing teams plus six or eight additions (e.g. Launceston, Hobart, WA 3, SA 3, New Zealand, North Queensland, NT, Canberra), but you have to wonder how many more teams the AFL can support without too much dilution of talent.

 

[Axver]

On an unrelated note, BT and Friends need to be banned from ever calling Mumford "Big Mummy" ever again.

 

[Axver]

Oh god Essendon please don't blow this.

 

[intedomine]

Another different jersey worn by West Sydney?! Looks like some sort of power cord or something this week. Good luck trying to build some sense of identity when you keep wearing something different every week.

I think it's a bit harsh on St.Kilda, that they should merge. They've marketed themselves pretty nicely in the Bayside strip towards Frankston. And they were a couple of kicks and bounce away from two more premierships in the past 5 years. Footscray have made a 5 prelims in the past 25 years or so which is a decent (and enviable) return (just weren't able to convert), and North won a couple of flags in the nineties. They've just been very mid table since.

They are all relatively successful (aside from the Dees). If we're talking Premierships as the sole yardstick for success, then there are actually only three successful Victorian clubs in the past thirteen seasons.

 

[Axver]

Phew, what a relief. GWS really did play very well and if they can keep playing like they have the last fortnight, they'll claim another big scalp sooner rather than later. I'm just glad we escaped by a bigger margin than the Hawks!

 

[Vlad n U 2]

What fucking pissed me off was the fact that Heath Scotland, who was fucking convicted for assault, was kept on the books, but because Bootsma was fucking shithouse the club sees a chance to make a tough stand. Fucking bullshit.

Similarly, Nathan Bock's 'indefinite' ban only turned out to be for a few matches when his incident was brought to light. Still on an AFL list.

 

[bono_man2002]

Fuck you Brisbane Lions. I changed my tip this afternoon to the Bulldogs

 

[Axver]

They are all relatively successful (aside from the Dees). If we're talking Premierships as the sole yardstick for success, then there are actually only three successful Victorian clubs in the past thirteen seasons.

I wasn't using that yardstick though. I was using the entire history of three of the four, and Melbourne for the last fifty years. I was also not only referring to on-field lack of success, but to financial problems and a very limited supporter base (North, even at the height of their on-field success, seem to have troubles with both of those).

As I noted above, ideally I'd love a viable, competitive tournament (both on- and off-field) that features all existing clubs plus a few more, both to represent AFL heartlands without a team or with insufficient teams - e.g. Tassie the former, WA the latter - and to penetrate new markets, like Northern Queensland and New Zealand. 24 teams in particular would be very welcome as we could finally return to a non-compromised fixture. I can't think of much better. But if there is little ability to expand beyond the existing 18 thanks to talent dilution (this is the important factor here; I'm not saying we need mergers just for the sake of it, or out of disdain for the teams involved), there are three options:

1. Merge the weakest Melbourne teams so that they are more competitive, and so that one or two new teams can be established in Tassie, etc.
2. Relocate and rebrand an existing weak Melbourne team, and hope it is accepted by its new home rather than viewed as a cast-off.
3. Keep the competition unchanged, leave traditional AFL areas unrepresented in an allegedly national competition, fail to spread the game to new markets, and risk other national competitions taking the AFL's market share in its absence.

To me, #1 is vastly preferable, especially given the AFL's current programme of aggressive expansion.

(Of course, it's a shame nobody in the 1980s had the good sense to create a proper national competition above the state leagues, using state teams as feeders to ensure support, rather than letting the VFL grow into the AFL...)

 

[Axver]

Good lord Gold Coast, if you'd kicked straight this would be agonisingly close.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Hey look it's the shit Adelaide Crows again.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

It's unbelievable how often we just stop trying when the game's there to be won. The entire quarter was spent in Freo's forward half because we didn't bother to use our fucking brains.

 

[Axver]

I'm just impressed your lot were in front at half time. It's Freo, after all, and at home. I figured you'd never get a proper look-in at all.

 

[LemonMelon]

The game was close for a while, but I knew Adelaide had fallen behind when I saw Vlad under New Posts.