All Things Australia-ish

[KhanadaRhodes]

exactly. there's simply no excuse for such ignorance. even if a person isn't up on every country's multiple languages, past and present, common fucking sense dictates spaniards speak spanish, etc. the only country where you're close to guaranteeing someone spoke english hundreds of years ago is england, and even then it's still possible they spoke something else. though heck, go back far enough and the english spoke french.

[intedomine]

Originally Posted by Earnie Shavers

And fuck, in the end (and in the beginning) it's all about bogans and immigration, no? Man the fuck up and deal with that head on and stop pretending that locking up a boat of Afghan refugees = tough on immigration. That's fucking disgusting. And the bogans will figure it out at some point. They may be dumb, but at some point it will eventually dawn on them that not all immigrants are refugees. That is another hot potato that will soon enough turn into a grenade.

A concern I have is of how many people out there aren't so much about "getting tough on immigration" and stopping the boats", but are instead more about "keeping Australia white".

I fear that the immigration debate cloaks how xenophobic a vast portion of the bogan population really are.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by cobl04

That makes my blood boil, seriously. I just bought Go Back on DVD, I'd love to show it to all my racist, ignorant, bigoted friends but they won't watch it.

I seem to be pretty passionate about this sort of thing... maybe there's something I can get involved with, perhaps even as a career. It's definitely (aside from my crusade against Australian Shit-Hop) the thing I'm most passionate about in life.

I watched an episode at my folks once, it was pretty confronting. But yeah Danny, the ones who need to see it the most won't watch. They know their views will be changed, eyes opened but they don't want to see it. People around here seem to be happy with their racism.

[cobl04]

My boss says Howard was "one of the most sympathetic people" towards "boat people" (a term I wish we could ban). I don't recall him being oversympathetic. Mind you (and my boss is a fantastic bloke, really) he also hates Julia with a searing passion and thought JH never put a foot wrong.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by Earnie Shavers

... So why not set up some independent committee or whatever, one that is rigged bipartisan enough that it's agreed that whatever they decide can just sail through parliament un-politicised? ...

Totally, completely agree with all you have said about this. Perfectly put.

Originally Posted by Earnie Shavers

And fuck, in the end (and in the beginning) it's all about bogans and immigration, no? Man the fuck up and deal with that head on and stop pretending that locking up a boat of Afghan refugees = tough on immigration. That's fucking disgusting. And the bogans will figure it out at some point. They may be dumb, but at some point it will eventually dawn on them that not all immigrants are refugees. That is another hot potato that will soon enough turn into a grenade.

Precisely. Just look at popular perceptions at the moment. Your usual "we need to protect our borders and be tough on boat people!" bogans automatically assume that if they see any dark non-Aboriginal person on the street, they're probably some boat person scum leeching thousands of dollars a week off Centrelink. When that bullshit misconception comes tumbling down and they realise basically all those people are actually here legitimately, didn't come via sea, probably have a job, and if they are picking up a Centrelink benefit it's not any more than anybody else ... well, it'll prove my point that the White Australia Policy is damn fucking engrained in this society even if it was officially dropped decades ago.

Originally Posted by cobl04

Earnie, Ax, et al... it drives me to very close to tears the amount of hatred and lack of compassion from so many people in this country. It truly makes me ashamed to be Australian. I just came across this facebook group:

I AM NOT RACIST JUST SPEAK FUCKING ENGLISH IN MY COUNTRY YOU IMERGRANT FUCK | Facebook

That makes my blood boil, seriously. I just bought Go Back on DVD, I'd love to show it to all my racist, ignorant, bigoted friends but they won't watch it.

I seem to be pretty passionate about this sort of thing... maybe there's something I can get involved with, perhaps even as a career. It's definitely (aside from my crusade against Australian Shit-Hop) the thing I'm most passionate about in life.

I'm genuinely terrified by the lack of compassion in this country, and it gets worse every week. You know one reason why I am quite happy to stay in the ivory tower of academia? Because the rest of this country seems riddled with so much fucking hatred and animosity towards any form of difference.

And Danny, you're aiming to be a journalist. For the love of god, use that for the force of good. This country needs as many ethical journalists as it can get, given the way the Hun sensationalises everything until the truth is long forgotten (do they miss the irony in their slogan being "stories start here"?!) and the way the Chris Mitchell-led Australian has become a tabloid in broadsheet clothing. I mean, fuck, News Limited papers in general dominate the market so much that The Age and the SMH have to pretty much compete on their terms, and when we're looking to Fairfax papers as the saviours of public decorum in print media, that's when we know we're fucking doomed.

Originally Posted by The Sad Punk

Should be noted that many white ~TRUE BLUE~ Australians would have had ancestors who wouldn't have spoken English when they first arrived here. I'm not just talking about post-war migrants, but those much earlier - German speakers, Dutch and a lot of folk from the British Isles. As far as family records are concerned, my greatxwhatever grandfather could only speak Manx Gaelic when he first came here.

It's kind of strange to note that Australia has a much better record on this than New Zealand. Significant percentages of Australians today are descended from ancestors who spoke no English when they arrived in Australia. New Zealand, on the other hand, largely received English speaking migrants from England, Ireland, and in Otago/Southland, Scotland. Even those who arrived speaking another language, e.g. some form of Gaelic, also spoke English (Scottish immigrants, for example, were 90% Lowland Scots who mainly or only spoke English). Migrant communities who arrived speaking no English - the French at Akaroa, the Germans in Moutere, the Scandinavians in the Forty Mile Bush - were statistically very small and left much less cultural influence. Yet New Zealand has much less of a problem with "fucken speack English or piss of!" It certainly happens, but you don't see it to the same level of vitriol as here.

Now of course the role of Maori in creating a somewhat bi-lingual society would moderate that somewhat, but historically, Maori was pretty marginalised through to the sixties. Unless you were Maori or lived in a rural area heavily populated by Maori, you probably never heard a word of it in your everyday life. Nowadays, of course, Maori (and to a lesser extent other Pasifika culture) has had a linguistic influence on Pakeha New Zealand, but Australian white culture still draws on a hell of a lot more non-English heritage.

/tangent

Originally Posted by cobl04

My boss says Howard was "one of the most sympathetic people" towards "boat people" (a term I wish we could ban). I don't recall him being oversympathetic. Mind you (and my boss is a fantastic bloke, really) he also hates Julia with a searing passion and thought JH never put a foot wrong.

Ooh yeah the poor sods on the Tampa sure felt fucking beacons of sympathy emanating from John Howard.

[Axver]

Also, can I say that Sophie Mirabella is just as much a nutjob as the Tea Partiers?

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by Axver

And Danny, you're aiming to be a journalist. For the love of god, use that for the force of good. This country needs as many ethical journalists as it can get, given the way the Hun sensationalises everything until the truth is long forgotten (do they miss the irony in their slogan being "stories start here"?!) and the way the Chris Mitchell-led Australian has become a tabloid in broadsheet clothing. I mean, fuck, News Limited papers in general dominate the market so much that The Age and the SMH have to pretty much compete on their terms, and when we're looking to Fairfax papers as the saviours of public decorum in print media, that's when we know we're fucking doomed.

I absolutely would. The media have a hell of a lot to answer for.

Looking forward to rewatching Go Back.

[Axver]

Can you people believe this?!

Opposition open to migration law talks - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says if the Government wants to amend the Migration Act he is ready to cooperate.

"We don't want the Government to use the High Court's decision and the solicitor-general's opinion, to drop offshore processing, because offshore processing is an essential part of any effective plan to stop the boats," he said.

Or in other words, "fuck the High Court, fuck due process, fuck respecting the judgements of the highest courts in the land, we're going to do what we want no matter how much we have to change the law to do it".

Fuck me, this is absolutely insane. Democracies do not set out to subvert their own highest court for political gain. I don't want to use scare language or anything like that, but jesus christ this is actually just a bit worrisome to me.

[KhanadaRhodes]

Originally Posted by Axver

the Germans in Moutere

next year i get to learn aaaaaall about this :halfexcitedhalfscared:

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by Axver

Can you people believe this?!

Opposition open to migration law talks - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



Or in other words, "fuck the High Court, fuck due process, fuck respecting the judgements of the highest courts in the land, we're going to do what we want no matter how much we have to change the law to do it".

Fuck me, this is absolutely insane. Democracies do not set out to subvert their own highest court for political gain. I don't want to use scare language or anything like that, but jesus christ this is actually just a bit worrisome to me.

that's very scary. how exasperating it must be for those in the high court.

[coolian2]

Originally Posted by Axver

Yet New Zealand has much less of a problem with "fucken speack English or piss of!" It certainly happens, but you don't see it to the same level of vitriol as here.

it only drives me crazy with foreign students. someone who either doesn't understand a simple question or sentence, or effectively has someone translating for them - what the hell are they picking up trying to learn accounting/tax/law/whatever? they're wasting everyone else's time.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by cobl04

I absolutely would. The media have a hell of a lot to answer for.

The articles in this series might prove interesting reading for you: Media and democracy Views & Research - The Conversation

(The Conversation, incidentally, is a good new media outlet founded by various Aussie universities written by actual experts that provides a meaningful alternative to News Limited and Fairfax. I recommend it to everybody.)

Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes

next year i get to learn aaaaaall about this :halfexcitedhalfscared:

The Germans in Moutere in one sentence: They arrived, lived hard, made beer, hooray!

Originally Posted by coolian2

it only drives me crazy with foreign students. someone who either doesn't understand a simple question or sentence, or effectively has someone translating for them - what the hell are they picking up trying to learn accounting/tax/law/whatever? they're wasting everyone else's time.

I had a really hard time marking the essays of a couple of international students ... they clearly had the ideas, analysis, and research, but their English expression was so awkward. I could tell they had really tried, so I didn't mark them down as heavily as I would've marked down the same expression from a native English speaker (as it would just be laziness in that case), but god, this is tertiary education - not the place where you should be struggling with your English. If you're good enough to have sophisticated ideas and analysis on the basis of thorough research, you're good enough to hone your English skills beforehand so that you can convey your ideas and get the mark you deserve.

[cobl04]

A wonderful idea.

School classes to beat racism | Herald Sun

[Axver]

Originally Posted by cobl04

A wonderful idea.

School classes to beat racism | Herald Sun

Unless it's implemented very, very well, it won't work. We all know how cynical kids are and how badly they respond to anything they perceive to be lame and that tells them what to do.

[cobl04]

Well maybe they could just show Go Back in those strange subjects that aren't officially anything (we called them pastoral, or religion)

[Axver]

Oh, Go Back should be compulsory viewing, and you'd reckon it'd slot nicely into SOSE or whatever the fuck they've decided to call the Geography/History hybrid now.

I should talk to one guy I work with. He's part of the committee working on the proposed national curriculum. It's kind of frustrating; the curriculum was dead easy to come up with - it's getting ideologues who know nothing about it to stop being hostile and let it be implemented that's the problem.

[cobl04]

SOSE

[Axver]

I was so bummed when I found that there was just SOSE, no separate Geography and Modern History, for my first two years of high school. The two subjects I most wanted to do, forced together into an unsatisfying merger. Was so happy when I got to year ten and I could do them both separately.

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by Axver

Unless it's implemented very, very well, it won't work. We all know how cynical kids are and how badly they respond to anything they perceive to be lame and that tells them what to do.

Haha, so true.

[KhanadaRhodes]

Originally Posted by Axver

The Germans in Moutere in one sentence: They arrived, lived hard, made beer, hooray!

haha. the class is officially called german something something in the pacific. influence or something i dunno. i was looking forward to the class, but we actually had one lecture about this same subject in a class i took last semester, and the guest lecturer was the guy who teaches the class. SO FUCKING BORING.

i have him for a class this semester and he's not that boring so i'm hoping he just didn't do well for the guest lecture or had an off day or something. plus hey, anything for me to be able to take a class counting towards my german degree that has no fucking german in it whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Axver

I had a really hard time marking the essays of a couple of international students ... they clearly had the ideas, analysis, and research, but their English expression was so awkward. I could tell they had really tried, so I didn't mark them down as heavily as I would've marked down the same expression from a native English speaker (as it would just be laziness in that case), but god, this is tertiary education - not the place where you should be struggling with your English. If you're good enough to have sophisticated ideas and analysis on the basis of thorough research, you're good enough to hone your English skills beforehand so that you can convey your ideas and get the mark you deserve.

god, yes.