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Old 03-13-2011, 03:27 PM   #121
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Me too!

 
Yeah, I totally get what you mean, you explained it very well.

I think the difference in perspectives with us is that while you guys "are not great believers," we're more "active non-believers." The reason I call myself agnostic is because I'm not so firmly entrenched in my beliefs that if presented with some sort of evidence of an afterlife, I'd still deny it. It would just take evidence to get me to believe. So while what happened on screen may have been real to the characters and was part of their experience, to me, it's akin to telling a very engrossing, compelling story, and then having it end by making the characters fall down into the hole and go into Wonderland, or having them end up at Santa's workshop in the North Pole. It didn't resonate with us, because according to our core beliefs, the afterlife where all of this happened to them doesn't exist, and so it wasn't real, as opposed to it happening in the real-world here-and-now, and so all of those good things didn't really happen to them. And as I mentioned, we wanted those things to happen for them SO much that when they weren't real (to us), it was crushing, and very, very disappointing.

All that said, I do realize that there's a disconnect in the way that we couldn't accept the ending with the afterlife because of our beliefs, and yet we were able to accept the premise of an island in the tropics that had polar bears and smoke monsters, and all that shit. Weird, I know.

Does that explain any better how it was for us? Like, I get the whole science vs faith thing, and I do have faith in some things - for example, personally, faith that when I'm in the midst of a bad situation, things will ultimately turn out okay, or that making one decision over another is best. But as far as religious faith or the belief in an afterlife, I have none at all, and that's why it didn't work for me, and why the last 10 minutes was so disappointing to me.
I get ya.

 
And I agree that the final 10 minutes put it pretty heavy handed on the faith side, so I took that as just part of the story. Again characters learning about both sides of the coin. I'm sure it has much to be attributed to the writer's own beliefs. But in all, a very satisfying 6 year run.
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:30 PM   #122
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@ the tags in this thread.
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:31 PM   #123
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I'm going to add one more thing to my Lost blab.

 
VP, you can also look at it like this: There really is nothing stating that the alt world was a Christian idea only, like an afterlife or a step to heaven. It very well COULD be a reality, an alternate reality. Remember at the beginning of the season we saw so many little things from both worlds bleeding into each other. So I think it is still very open to interpretation. (Another very smart thing about Lost!)

I also see the very clear definition as Dharma were the men of science: they saw the island as only a source of power to be used and expoited for research into stuff like time travel. That it was.

The others were the men of faith, who had Jacob and the Man in Black dictating their lives and destiny. Both groups saw the same thing, but from their own perspectives. Our characters in the show saw these things too, but they experienced parts of both POV's.

The Man in Black as a character was no different, he had the mind of a scientist, wanting to harness the power of the island.

time for me to stop.
.
 
That's a really good point about looking at it as an alternate reality as opposed to an afterlife of whatever religion. I suppose the sticking point with me for thinking of it in that way is that Christian was supposed to be dead in those scenes, and so it seemed pretty clear to me that their intention was to show it as an afterlife. Oh, and the stained glass window where Jack and Christian were talking, showing the symbols of various religions. They were very careful to be inclusive of all viewers' beliefs. All except for atheists/agnostics.

But again, all that said, the series was the most important, intense tv viewing experience I've ever had, and the ending doesn't take away from that for me. I still absolutely batshit crazy love the show.

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Old 03-13-2011, 03:32 PM   #124
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@ the tags in this thread.
It's been a slow week.
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:34 PM   #125
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@ the tags in this thread.
I just noticed them.


So yesterday I went grocery shopping, and bought a bunch of mini cupcakes to take to a dinner party I'm going to tomorrow. I thought I could resist the lure of those damn tempting cupcakes, but I couldn't. I just ate 3 of them. I should have waited to buy the cupcakes until I was on the way to my friends' house, because now I'm going to have to buy an entirely new pack of them - it wouldn't look so good to show up with some of them eaten. At least they're cheap!
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:38 PM   #126
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I just noticed them.


So yesterday I went grocery shopping, and bought a bunch of mini cupcakes to take to a dinner party I'm going to tomorrow. I thought I could resist the lure of those damn tempting cupcakes, but I couldn't. I just ate 3 of them. I should have waited to buy the cupcakes until I was on the way to my friends' house, because now I'm going to have to buy an entirely new pack of them - it wouldn't look so good to show up with some of them eaten. At least they're cheap!
That sounds like something I would do!
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:39 PM   #127
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Who could resist those cupcakes? They're so appealing
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:39 PM   #128
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Just finished another essay!!

Only two more to go
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:41 PM   #129
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.
 
That's a really good point about looking at it as an alternate reality as opposed to an afterlife of whatever religion. I suppose the sticking point with me for thinking of it in that way is that Christian was supposed to be dead in those scenes, and so it seemed pretty clear to me that their intention was to show it as an afterlife. Oh, and the stained glass window where Jack and Christian were talking, showing the symbols of various religions. They were very careful to be inclusive of all viewers' beliefs. All except for atheists/agnostics.

But again, all that said, the series was the most important, intense tv viewing experience I've ever had, and the ending doesn't take away from that for me. I still absolutely batshit crazy love the show.

Same here I still haven't rewatched season 6 yet. (We just started 5) so I will probably be looking at it a bit differently this time,

 
but you still have the things like Daniel tellling Desmond that he believes he's triggered an alternate timeline, so there is still that to consider. But again yes, the final few minutes went heavy on faith, for example the window you mentioned, which I personally didn't think they needed to include, but again, I think that was the writers' beliefs and interpretations showing their own POV at the end.
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:43 PM   #130
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I jsut checked my mail downstairs... my energy bill has gone back down to below 100! That's very nice. Under 100 is more reasonable. Last month is spiked it 188...
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:45 PM   #131
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I get ya.

 
And I agree that the final 10 minutes put it pretty heavy handed on the faith side, so I took that as just part of the story. Again characters learning about both sides of the coin. I'm sure it has much to be attributed to the writer's own beliefs. But in all, a very satisfying 6 year run.
.
 
I should also clarify - I'm not opposed to using religion in a storytelling context at all. I can and do appreciate it on an artistic level, hence my love of U2 music. I think a huge part of it for me is that I felt SO close to these characters (what do you mean Hurley's not real?? LALALA, I can't hear you, shut up! ) that I needed for those things to be "real" for them, and when (in my view) they weren't, well...sigh.

But that's a huge testament to Cuse and Lindelof and the writers, and how wrapped up in the whole thing I was. If I wasn't so caught up in it, and didn't love it and them so much, it wouldn't have felt like...a personal betrayal or something.

Oh god, I'm SO geeky.

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Old 03-13-2011, 03:49 PM   #132
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I have nothing to say about Lost. I just felt left out of all the spoiler posts. Lonely PLEBAn is lonely..

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Old 03-13-2011, 03:51 PM   #133
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I have nothing to say about Lost. I just felt left out of all the spoiler posts. Lonely PLEBAn is lonely..

Sorry. There are a few of us Lost addicts in the thread, and when we get talking about it, we can (and have!) go (gone) on for days.
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:53 PM   #134
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I was helpless and could not resist. Damn tasty morsels of chocolatey goodness! I even tried hiding them in a bag in my storage closet. I fail.

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I have nothing to say about Lost. I just felt left out of all the spoiler posts. Lonely PLEBAn is lonely..

 
Aww!

Welcome to the Lost-y party.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:00 PM   #135
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.
 
I should also clarify - I'm not opposed to using religion in a storytelling context at all. I can and do appreciate it on an artistic level, hence my love of U2 music. I think a huge part of it for me is that I felt SO close to these characters (what do you mean Hurley's not real?? LALALA, I can't hear you, shut up! : wink: ) that I needed for those things to be "real" for them, and when (in my view) they weren't, well...sigh. : sad:

But that's a huge testament to Cuse and Lindelof and the writers, and how wrapped up in the whole thing I was. If I wasn't so caught up in it, and didn't love it and them so much, it wouldn't have felt like...a personal betrayal or something.

Oh god, I'm SO geeky. :reject : : lol:



 
And to prove I am just as geeky, you totally freaked me out for a second when you said Hurley's not real, I was like WHAT? He was too real! Do you mean because he really is Hugo?? And my brain started trying frantically to figure out what you meant, until it went, OH, she means in REAL LIFE.


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I have nothing to say about Lost. I just felt left out of all the spoiler posts. Lonely PLEBAn is lonely.. :reject :


 
Edge porn, for you.










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Old 03-13-2011, 04:01 PM   #136
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people are here?!!!??!!!


hi I'm at my sis's for about 90 mins
and she let me use her computer

hope everyone is doing well
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:03 PM   #137
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I was helpless and could not resist. Damn tasty morsels of chocolatey goodness! I even tried hiding them in a bag in my storage closet. I fail.
Hiding things from yourself doesn't tend to work so well, unless you have a memory disorder.

Omg, I just remembered a hiding story! I went on Slim Fast several years ago, and bought some of their meal replacement bars, cookie dough flavour. They were SO good. I was craving them all the time, completely negating the whole purpose of Slim Fast. So, I asked Sarah to hide them for me. A few days later, I went to do laundry, and when I started the dryer, I heard this really loud clunking in it. I freaked out, thinking maybe it was a mouse. My ex had dropped over, so I got him to look in the dryer for me. She'd put the Slim Fast box in there.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:04 PM   #138
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Hiding things from yourself doesn't tend to work so well, unless you have a memory disorder.

Omg, I just remembered a hiding story! I went on Slim Fast several years ago, and bought some of their meal replacement bars, cookie dough flavour. They were SO good. I was craving them all the time, completely negating the whole purpose of Slim Fast. So, I asked Sarah to hide them for me. A few days later, I went to do laundry, and when I started the dryer, I heard this really loud clunking in it. I freaked out, thinking maybe it was a mouse. My ex had dropped over, so I got him to look in the dryer for me. She'd put the Slim Fast box in there.
omg
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:04 PM   #139
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Sorry. I tried to get into lost... but it lost me.
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Old 03-13-2011, 04:06 PM   #140
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Hiding things from yourself doesn't tend to work so well, unless you have a memory disorder.

Omg, I just remembered a hiding story! I went on Slim Fast several years ago, and bought some of their meal replacement bars, cookie dough flavour. They were SO good. I was craving them all the time, completely negating the whole purpose of Slim Fast. So, I asked Sarah to hide them for me. A few days later, I went to do laundry, and when I started the dryer, I heard this really loud clunking in it. I freaked out, thinking maybe it was a mouse. My ex had dropped over, so I got him to look in the dryer for me. She'd put the Slim Fast box in there.
Omg, that's awesome!

The problem with me is that I didn't have an alternate source of chocolate in the house. That was the only chocolately thing, and I should have anticipated having a craving for chocolate, and bought something else just for me when I was at the store. Ah well. Not a big deal in the long run.
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