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U2Kitten said:


The point ALL of you are missing is of course he can spend it any way he wants, BUT he can't expect to be one way and speak another, or people will not take him seriously. And if they don't , he's not getting anywhere.


No...YOU are missing the point!

Despite the fact that many think he's a rich hypocrite...

People DO take him seriously, and he has gotten very, very far and IT WILL CONTINUE!!!
 
Babydoll said:
I agree Lies...being from there as well I have had first-hand knowledge about what he does, and although there is a little that I don't agree with about what he does, I do know for a fact that he has done his utmost to help. Help is prolly not even the right word, since he isn't doing it out of pity and sympathy. In his words, it's all a matter of justice. How can he expect us to achieve economic growth when we are too busy paying off loans to the Western nations? In that regard, he's done a lot.

And to risk repeating myself, he's done plenty on the Aids issue as well as malaria and clean water. He's given money literally out of his pocket to a bunch of kids to "go enjoy themselves." That's been on several occasions.


I read you loud and clear BD:yes: :up: We all feel that Bono is doing this not to gain fame. He already has that. He sees the injustice and just wants to make what should be, happen for those less fortunate.
 
Carmelu2fan said:



We all feel that Bono is doing this not to gain fame. He already has that. He sees the injustice and just wants to make what should be, happen for those less fortunate.

Disclaimer: I do NOT personally feel he is doing it to gain fame.

But let me tell you about someone who does. While I was waiting in the very long Baltimore GA line in 2001, I met this lady who was a surgeon (nice to get enough time off from emergencies to sit all day in a GA line and see a concert!) and she told me she was convinced Bono was doing his Africa stuff to get a place in the history books for something besides music. She did not mean that he did not really care, only that a place in history seemed very important to him over this. You know how he is always listing the things our age will be remembered for? She thinks he wants to be a part of that. Something- besides his music- to live on after him.

While far from a band "insider", because of her high income level she was able to travel in the same circles, stay at the same hotels, and party at the same places as the band. She had met Bono many times, in casual way, just part of a group in a resturant or something. She had been following the band since the beginning when she was still in med school. That was her honest opinion. At the time I was shocked by it, but she was not, and did not think any less of him for it, it was just a matter of fact to her. She loved him and the band just the same. But think, if a diehard fan can think that of him, can you expect Joe Blow on the street to give him any more benefit of doubt?
 
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U2kitten, why, every time we give you decent arguments, you ignore them and go on about something different?
If you can't win a battle, don't fight it, but don't start playing dirty, cause that's not the way to play!
 
There is no battle. I just think most of you are letting what you WANT to think of Bono take over for what the truth may actually be. I guess this is the wrong place to preach, though. Maybe I will try a thread on EYKIW. Or maybe I will just shut up! :happy:
 
U2Kitten said:
There is no battle. I just think most of you are letting what you WANT to think of Bono take over for what the truth may actually be. I guess this is the wrong place to preach, though. Maybe I will try a thread on EYKIW. Or maybe I will just shut up! :happy:

:happy: I think you shutting up would be the best thing, because you are using my argument for you for yourself now...
please stop before my opinion of you becomes even lower :happy: if that is possible...

and just for the record :happy:
I just think you are letting what you WANT to think of Bono take over for what the truth may actually be.
 
U2Kitten said:
There is no battle. I just think most of you are letting what you WANT to think of Bono take over for what the truth may actually be. I guess this is the wrong place to preach, though. Maybe I will try a thread on EYKIW. Or maybe I will just shut up! :happy:

Well maybe I'm just not understanding you correctly.

Based on your posts, the way I understand it is that your criticism stem from Bono blowing money on houses, cars, nice hotels, etc while you understand that at the same time he's asking people like you and I to make sacrifices for Africa. Am I on the wrong track?

I guess if we are understanding each other, my questions are this:

1) Where did you get the idea that Bono is asking us to make sacrifices like give up our money, cars, houses, vacations etc? I've never heard him say this. I have, however, heard him say many times that this is not about money and donating to charity but about voicing our opinions to Congress and following through with our votes. Justice, not charity - his words, not mine.

If it were that he was asking us to do this, give up everything and be more like martyrs (kind of like Rich Mullins, if we need and example from music), then yes I would agree he's a flaming hypocrite. But he's not asking anyone to do that, period.

2) Like you said earlier, he's spent a lot of time lobbying political groups and governments to drop debt and increase aid, which is ultimately paid for by the taxes of people like you and I. However, of everyone in the debate, Bono pays MORE in income taxes than most likely ALL of us combined. He's already giving more to charity (millions, and that's just the unpublished figure) and millions to the Irish government in taxes. He's already practicing what he preaches. He's never said that he hates paying taxes and doesn't want to pay his income taxes.

It's not like he's saying we should lobby for Congress to make a NEW tax that goes directly to Africa - no one wants to pay, or should pay more taxes. He's simply asking that the money the government ALREADY has in taxes be allocated more fairly. We spend what like a billion dollars a week on this war we can't even win, but private foundations are out there giving more in aid than our own government? That's sick! The money is there, it's just not going in the right direction.

3) You're calling us out saying that we only see what we want to see, but in reality all of YOUR arguments are based on terrible written, misinformed news articles, not on ANY of the facts and figures regarding how much Bono donates, how much debt has been relieved, how much more money has gone into the Global Fund, what types of programs have been funded or started by or because of Bono.

The problem is that your "truth" is more like celebrity gossip and conspiracy theory than good hard evidence.
 
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U2Kitten said:


Disclaimer: I do NOT personally feel he is doing it to gain fame.

But let me tell you about someone who does. While I was waiting in the very long Baltimore GA line in 2001, I met this lady who was a surgeon (nice to get enough time off from emergencies to sit all day in a GA line and see a concert!) and she told me she was convinced Bono was doing his Africa stuff to get a place in the history books for something besides music. She did not mean that he did not really care, only that a place in history seemed very important to him over this. You know how he is always listing the things our age will be remembered for? She thinks he wants to be a part of that. Something- besides his music- to live on after him.

While far from a band "insider", because of her high income level she was able to travel in the same circles, stay at the same hotels, and party at the same places as the band. She had met Bono many times, in casual way, just part of a group in a resturant or something. She had been following the band since the beginning when she was still in med school. That was her honest opinion. At the time I was shocked by it, but she was not, and did not think any less of him for it, it was just a matter of fact to her. She loved him and the band just the same. But think, if a diehard fan can think that of him, can you expect Joe Blow on the street to give him any more benefit of doubt?

Your anecdote doesn't seem to have much connection with anything, but here are some thoughts:

A) What was so awful and "shocking" about what that woman expressed as her opinion? Don't most of us wish that the world might be a better place for our lives having been lived, and that when we die we might be remembered for something? That's hardly a damning comment, and has nothing to do with hypocrisy.

B) Even doctors get time off, or aren't they allowed to without being slagged off?

C) There are several people here who have met Bono in a casual way. Why ascribe so much weight to this stranger's opinion? Is it because she was a "lady", and someone with a high income level, while the people here are just a "bunch of girls"? Is there some sort of hierarchy of authority?

D) I still think it's all about the hair.:wink:
Seriously, would you be feeling this vehemently anti-Bono if he hadn't become, in your words, an unattractive, chubby, bald middle-aged man who no longer looks like "the man of your dreams"?
 
Liesje said:


Well maybe I'm just not understanding you correctly.

Based on your posts, the way I understand it is that your criticism stem from Bono blowing money on houses, cars, nice hotels, etc while you understand that at the same time he's asking people like you and I to make sacrifices for Africa. Am I on the wrong track?

I guess if we are understanding each other, my questions are this:

1) Where did you get the idea that Bono is asking us to make sacrifices like give up our money, cars, houses, vacations etc? I've never heard him say this. I have, however, heard him say many times that this is not about money and donating to charity but about voicing our opinions to Congress and following through with our votes. Justice, not charity - his words, not mine.

If it were that he was asking us to do this, give up everything and be more like martyrs (kind of like Rich Mullins, if we need and example from music), then yes I would agree he's a flaming hypocrite. But he's not asking anyone to do that, period.

2) Like you said earlier, he's spent a lot of time lobbying political groups and governments to drop debt and increase aid, which is ultimately paid for by the taxes of people like you and I. However, of everyone in the debate, Bono pays MORE in income taxes than most likely ALL of us combined. He's already giving more to charity (millions, and that's just the unpublished figure) and millions to the Irish government in taxes. He's already practicing what he preaches. He's never said that he hates paying taxes and doesn't want to pay his income taxes.

It's not like he's saying we should lobby for Congress to make a NEW tax that goes directly to Africa - no one wants to pay, or should pay more taxes. He's simply asking that the money the government ALREADY has in taxes be allocated more fairly. We spend what like a billion dollars a week on this war we can't even win, but private foundations are out there giving more in aid than our own government? That's sick! The money is there, it's just not going in the right direction.

3) You're calling us out saying that we only see what we want to see, but in reality all of YOUR arguments are based on terrible written, misinformed news articles, not on ANY of the facts and figures regarding how much Bono donates, how much debt has been relieved, how much more money has gone into the Global Fund, what types of programs have been funded or started by or because of Bono.

The problem is that your "truth" is more like celebrity gossip and conspiracy theory than good hard evidence.

Brilliant!
 
U2Kitten said:


Disclaimer: I do NOT personally feel he is doing it to gain fame.

But let me tell you about someone who does. While I was waiting in the very long Baltimore GA line in 2001, I met this lady who was a surgeon (nice to get enough time off from emergencies to sit all day in a GA line and see a concert!) and she told me she was convinced Bono was doing his Africa stuff to get a place in the history books for something besides music. She did not mean that he did not really care, only that a place in history seemed very important to him over this. You know how he is always listing the things our age will be remembered for? She thinks he wants to be a part of that. Something- besides his music- to live on after him.

While far from a band "insider", because of her high income level she was able to travel in the same circles, stay at the same hotels, and party at the same places as the band. She had met Bono many times, in casual way, just part of a group in a resturant or something. She had been following the band since the beginning when she was still in med school. That was her honest opinion. At the time I was shocked by it, but she was not, and did not think any less of him for it, it was just a matter of fact to her. She loved him and the band just the same. But think, if a diehard fan can think that of him, can you expect Joe Blow on the street to give him any more benefit of doubt?

this is ONE opinion from ONE fan.....you are talking as if this a universal opinion or something and us "bunch of fan girls" are the only people who appear "oblivious" or "blind" to the truth!!!

you are going on like you think we should all change our opinions on Bono just because you say so! most of what u say is speculation, assumption and not factual

everyone has different opinions and i dont know why you cant accept that. its like you think your point of view is the only right one! and again...people have said they dont disagree with the fact bono is seen as a hypocrite by many people....but we dont personally think that way for reasons mentioned before. so we dont deserve to be treated like we are stupid and have you suggest that our admiration for Bono only stems from drooling over him!!!
 
Liesje said:


Well maybe I'm just not understanding you correctly.

Based on your posts, the way I understand it is that your criticism stem from Bono blowing money on houses, cars, nice hotels, etc while you understand that at the same time he's asking people like you and I to make sacrifices for Africa. Am I on the wrong track?

I guess if we are understanding each other, my questions are this:

1) Where did you get the idea that Bono is asking us to make sacrifices like give up our money, cars, houses, vacations etc? I've never heard him say this. I have, however, heard him say many times that this is not about money and donating to charity but about voicing our opinions to Congress and following through with our votes. Justice, not charity - his words, not mine.

If it were that he was asking us to do this, give up everything and be more like martyrs (kind of like Rich Mullins, if we need and example from music), then yes I would agree he's a flaming hypocrite. But he's not asking anyone to do that, period.

2) Like you said earlier, he's spent a lot of time lobbying political groups and governments to drop debt and increase aid, which is ultimately paid for by the taxes of people like you and I. However, of everyone in the debate, Bono pays MORE in income taxes than most likely ALL of us combined. He's already giving more to charity (millions, and that's just the unpublished figure) and millions to the Irish government in taxes. He's already practicing what he preaches. He's never said that he hates paying taxes and doesn't want to pay his income taxes.

It's not like he's saying we should lobby for Congress to make a NEW tax that goes directly to Africa - no one wants to pay, or should pay more taxes. He's simply asking that the money the government ALREADY has in taxes be allocated more fairly. We spend what like a billion dollars a week on this war we can't even win, but private foundations are out there giving more in aid than our own government? That's sick! The money is there, it's just not going in the right direction.

3) You're calling us out saying that we only see what we want to see, but in reality all of YOUR arguments are based on terrible written, misinformed news articles, not on ANY of the facts and figures regarding how much Bono donates, how much debt has been relieved, how much more money has gone into the Global Fund, what types of programs have been funded or started by or because of Bono.

The problem is that your "truth" is more like celebrity gossip and conspiracy theory than good hard evidence.


You go girl!!! :up: Well said my fellow pleban!:wink: :applaud:

No one could of said it better!:hug:
 
nikkyjade said:


this is ONE opinion from ONE fan.....you are talking as if this a universal opinion or something and us "bunch of fan girls" are the only people who appear "oblivious" or "blind" to the truth!!!

you are going on like you think we should all change our opinions on Bono just because you say so! most of what u say is speculation, assumption and not factual

everyone has different opinions and i dont know why you cant accept that. its like you think your point of view is the only right one! and again...people have said they dont disagree with the fact bono is seen as a hypocrite by many people....but we dont personally think that way for reasons mentioned before. so we dont deserve to be treated like we are stupid and have you suggest that our admiration for Bono only stems from drooling over him!!!

The thing that always strikes me about Bono is that people such as politicians, celebs and other activists who have met and worked with him in a professional capacity through his humanitarian work always only seem to have good words to say about him -what a knowledgeable, humble, caring guy he is etc etc. They can't all be wrong! I know I'm far more likely to listen to well judged comments from people who are qualified to actually talk about him rather than from those who've never met him or have only met him very briefly and have an axe to grind!
 
U2Kitten said:


Disclaimer: I do NOT personally feel he is doing it to gain fame.

But let me tell you about someone who does. While I was waiting in the very long Baltimore GA line in 2001, I met this lady who was a surgeon (nice to get enough time off from emergencies to sit all day in a GA line and see a concert!) and she told me she was convinced Bono was doing his Africa stuff to get a place in the history books for something besides music. She did not mean that he did not really care, only that a place in history seemed very important to him over this. You know how he is always listing the things our age will be remembered for? She thinks he wants to be a part of that. Something- besides his music- to live on after him

That's just one persons opinion.

Perhaps she changed her mind after the last "60 minutes" interview U2 did--Bono did say that for his efforts on behalf of Africa he hoped to be forgotten!

And "Joe Blow" saw that one.

In fact, there is a lot of positive press out there: Time, Newsweek, NBC News, Oprah, etc. Positive press overseas, too.

Most of the negative press is from columnists and tabloid style journalism.

All your impressions come from a few people in real life and some Internet message boards. The Internet draws cranks like flies to honey, and you are just generalising from the real life examples.

And add my voice to those who resent your stereotyping of us as drooling fangirls...many of us have actually read up on this stuff, you know.

:mad:
 
The other point (Liesje really covered everything!) is that it's great to imagine what we might do if we won the lottery. But what do you do now? Bono earned his money, he didn't win it. He says he is very lucky, obviously. But we all know how hard he works, how much time he spends on his work and his humanitarian endeavors (as well as talking to fans) He doesn't have to give a penny away. If he enjoys fine wine and clothes and cars he's more than earned it. Yet, he does give money to charity. We know that he does even though we don't know how much he gives. I think it's a lot easier to imagine what we would do with winnings which aren't earned than to step up and give what you can from what you earn.
 
nikkyjade said:


this is ONE opinion from ONE fan...

The difference is, she actually talked to him and hung out with him many times. (and I don't mean a few minutes meeting him at a concert and getting an autograph.) We didn't. This is not just a long distance observation.

There really is nothing left to say because you're all going to believe what you want anyway. But the entire point I was trying to make, and Mystery Girl stated too, is that in order to help his cause he HAS to care what people think! He needs to worry about how he's perceived, and spin his image, which is not favorable among the general public. He also seems to be losing steam in Washington. (though, speaking of hypocrisy, the US gov't could save the world for what they're wasting on that war, but that's another story.)

Oookay, I'm movin' along :wave:
 
..and again, you all ignore mine! :sexywink:

Maybe you don't think my points are good. And maybe I don't think theirs are. Oh well! :shrug:
 
Whatever happened to Lola? Haven't heard any comments on her in awhile, and this was her thread! Poor Lola! It's been hijacked!
 
Well not to toot my own horn but I've hung out with him several times. Once had a five hour conversation with the guy and that's not my impression at all.
 
U2Kitten said:


The difference is, she actually talked to him and hung out with him many times. (and I don't mean a few minutes meeting him at a concert and getting an autograph.) We didn't. This is not just a long distance observation.

There really is nothing left to say because you're all going to believe what you want anyway. But the entire point I was trying to make, and Mystery Girl stated too, is that in order to help his cause he HAS to care what people think! He needs to worry about how he's perceived, and spin his image, which is not favorable among the general public. He also seems to be losing steam in Washington. (though, speaking of hypocrisy, the US gov't could save the world for what they're wasting on that war, but that's another story.)

Oookay, I'm movin' along :wave:

No he doesn't have to care about how he's perceived by the "general public" Anyone who's made a difference in this world has not cared a solitary bit what the "public" thought about them. Jesus (who Bono clearly follows by his own admissions more than anyone else), Martin Luther King Jr, Gahndi, Nelson Mandela, etc. none of them had a very high repertoire with the general public. They certainly had their many supporters, but one would argue that just as many if not more people hated them and thought everything they tried to do was "wrong". It clearly stemmed from misunderstanding and arrogance on the part of these other individuals. Clearly Bono wants public support on this issue, but for anyone who has the audacity to criticize someone who is at least trying to make a difference while they sit on their lazy asses, and throw stone; I doubt those are the people he wants to attract. THOSE are the people who would only do something if they got a return from it.:|
 
MissMoo said:
Well not to toot my own horn but I've hung out with him several times. Once had a five hour conversation with the guy and that's not my impression at all.

I'm assuming "the guy" you're referring to is Bono, and it makes me wonder...why do people always come here and try to act like they know the band personally, and think they'll be believed?:huh:
 
U2Kitten said:


The difference is, she actually talked to him and hung out with him many times. (and I don't mean a few minutes meeting him at a concert and getting an autograph.) We didn't. This is not just a long distance observation.

hahaha! you still dont get it!! its ONE opinion from ONE person!!! and still you are making it sound like this is the general opinion of every joe-public out there!! there may be a few people that agree with her but im sure there are plenty more that dont!! the only evidence you have of "all the general public" hating him or whatever is from a couple of internet forums or a few individuals opinions written in a tabloid newspaper. that for me is not a general or fair representation of public opinion


There really is nothing left to say because you're all going to believe what you want anyway. But the entire point I was trying to make, and Mystery Girl stated too, is that in order to help his cause he HAS to care what people think! He needs to worry about how he's perceived, and spin his image, which is not favorable among the general public. [/B]

why should he care what people think?! he isnt the issue! he isnt trying to get himself credibilty for this or extra fame or brownie points. its the worlds poor who are the issue....and it shouldnt matter whether its Bono or bloody Dame Edna Everage who is campaigning....if they get the right peoples attention, know their stuff and have the passion and determination to actually make ground with their campaign and give it the exposure it needs then thats all that matters. after all Bono isnt doing this for him...he is doing for the needy, sick and hungry people of the poorest parts of this world. if people want to call him a hypocrite then let them....but if they choose not to realise the true issue here, the poor, and would rather not supprt the cause because of how much of a "bad hypocritical egotistic man" Bono is then they must live in a sad, pathetic, shallow world
 
biff said:

D) I still think it's all about the hair.:wink:
Seriously, would you be feeling this vehemently anti-Bono if he hadn't become, in your words, an unattractive, chubby, bald middle-aged man who no longer looks like "the man of your dreams"?

bingo.

.
 
WHATEVER :rolleyes::yawn:

You have all totally missed what I was trying to get across and made crap out of it in your own minds. Just forget it, it's useless. If you quit quoting my posts, I will stop answering back.

Back to Lola? Anyone for Lola?
 
just unsubscribe to the thread then.. People are going to continue to post here until they close this thread which I imagine is soon.. Stop responding to people's posts then if don't want to continue this..:huh: I have this strong feeling that if you stop responding/posting the discussion will end as well. It's real easy thing to do..
 
U2Fanatic4ever said:
I have this strong feeling that if you stop responding/posting the discussion will end as well. It's real easy thing to do..

Then why don't you?
 
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