Vertigo Tour post New Orleans: major changes technically?

[lovveu2]

Originally posted by gabrielvox


You take me taking issue with what posters on Interference say personally? Whoa, since when did you join the Blue Mob?

After all, that is all I've been commenting on

That the notion that Americans cant/dont care about both issues is to me ridiculous.

And you seemed to agree with that comment.

So why are you still on me again? lol

Remember when we would debate who should be President...(I was a Kerry Girl)? Remember that in the end I told you whoever won I would support (which I do)? This is the same thing...these are MY PEOPLE, MY LEADERS, MY COUNTRY....so I get very upset when someone comes in and questions the actions we are taking or NOT taking to help OUR people.

BTW see you next week and then we can debate this in person or not

[gvox]

Originally posted by lovveu2


so I get very upset when someone comes in and questions the actions we are taking or NOT taking to help OUR people.

BTW see you next week and then we can debate this in person

OK! Finally! Hurrah! Then might I respectfully suggest, that you direct your arrows at the people in this thread who were questioning the actions YOU/AMERICA are/are not taking?

Youre still not listening.

(and no, we wont be debating this, we'll be respectfully listening to Bono discuss both issues - and then enjoying the rest of the show and week!! )

[lovveu2]

Originally posted by gabrielvox


OK! Finally! Hurrah! Then might I respectfully suggest, that you direct your arrows at the people in this thread who were questioning the actions YOU/AMERICA are/are not taking?

Youre still not listening.

(and no, we wont be debating this, we'll be respectfully listening to Bono discuss both issues - and then enjoying the rest of the show and week!! )

Ok then I guess I wouldn't be seeing you...

[gvox]

Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


no one's saying eliminate it... all i'm saying is that if he bloviates on for 5 minutes at a time, which he's known to do, that the message will get lost.

I hear you Headache, but let's not forget. The man is human. He's onstage and while he's very good at what he does, he does sometimes get bogged down even in calm situations where he speaks publicly. Now multiply that by a million times: sweaty, alternately extremely hyped/extremely exhausted, holding a guitar trying to remember your chords for the next song and looking down at faces, some that understand the issue, some that havent a clue, and finding the right words as you try to emphasize the importance of it. Trying to make sure you say the right thing that people will remember and have ringing in their ears for the next few days. It's not easy, and after having been in similar situations on a smaller scale, I can say downright unnerving at times.

Sometimes we put way too much pressure on the man. He's just doing the best he can..

[gvox]

Originally posted by lovveu2


Ok then I guess I wouldn't be seeing you...

Um., ok so since I wont debate you wont see me?

Grrrrrrr

lol

[lovveu2]

Originally posted by gabrielvox


Um., ok so since I wont debate you wont see me?

Grrrrrrr

lol

yep.....goodbye

[gvox]

[Chizip]

I don't think anybody has said to eliminate to Africa thing completely. Just that if Bono rambles on about Africa at doesn't say anything about New Orleans then it could turn some people off. Yes there is room for him to say something about both, and I expect him to do that. Like someone else said, he will probably bring them together talking about poverty, much like he did after 9/11.

It seems like you went onto this big rampage without really reading what people had to say.

[ruffian]

Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase

i'm not saying eliminate the africa talk... i'm just saying cut it back a tad. there is a point where a message, as great and wonderful as that message may be, can start to get annoying. like it or not, that's just fact.

live8 happened... the g8 made progress on the issue... and now america is worried about what's going on in the gulf region. you could be a doctor or social worker... whatever... someone who deals with helping other people, but if someone in your own family suffers a horrific tragedy, your focus is obviously going to shift to your own family, even though there are still others out there suffering as much if not more. it's simple human nature. it's the same with a nation... yes, there's people around the world suffering as much if not more than those in new orleans and the rest of the gulf region. but those suffering down south right now are our own people. they're part of our family. obviously our thoughts will be with them first.

First, you are assuming that most people are going to hear the message over and over--that simply isn't the case. Maybe 5% of fans will be hearing multiple concerts, and if they get "annoyed" then I'd say that concern for their reaction is outweighed by the 95% of people who haven't heard the message yet on this tour. I really don't give a crap if people are tired of hearing about Africa. It is an unconscionable situation given the immense wealth that exists in the first world.

Secondly, I think that the crisis in Africa is qualitatively different than the natural disaster's we've seen with the Tsunami and New Orleans. While I don't think that we can "rank" tragedies like these, I do know that the legacy of European colonialism in Africa has created and perpetuated structural, institutionalized inequalities. The actions of the rest of the world have directly contibuted to famine, violence, disease, and widespread poverty in Africa. The West has categorically ignored these problems. Live8 and the G8 are not the end result of the campaign to reduce debt. They are barely a starting point, and more likely than not, the leaders at the G8 summit will find (and have already found) ways around their promises of debt relief.

I'm sure U2 can acknowledge that New Orleans is a tremendous tragedy that has displaced hundereds of thousands of people--but the fact that it is our own nation and "our own people" (and those people who are victims of the natural disaster have their own experiences with inequality) doesn't merit, in my opinion, letting the issue of Africa recede.

[gvox]

Originally posted by Chizip


It seems like you went onto this big rampage without really
reading what people had to say.

If you are referring to me, I suggest you read some of the initial posts, it was not yours that I was responding to.

When I logged onto the thread I responded to the initial comments such as

'Above all else, America does not want to hear about Africa right now. That's my sense of things... '

'..please no more Africa'

etc

I think I've reiterated a few times now that I think he can address both and tie them in without diluting the other, and that the good people of America should be able to handle that.

Clear?

[gvox]

Originally posted by ruffian


First, you are assuming that most people are going to hear the message over and over--that simply isn't the case. Maybe 5% of fans will be hearing multiple concerts, and if they get "annoyed" then I'd say that concern for their reaction is outweighed by the 95% of people who haven't heard the message yet on this tour. I really don't give a crap if people are tired of hearing about Africa. It is an unconscionable situation given the immense wealth that exists in the first world.

Secondly, I think that the crisis in Africa is qualitatively different than the natural disaster's we've seen with the Tsunami and New Orleans. While I don't think that we can "rank" tragedies like these, I do know that the legacy of European colonialism in Africa has created and perpetuated structural, institutionalized inequalities. The actions of the rest of the world have directly contibuted to famine, violence, disease, and widespread poverty in Africa. The West has categorically ignored these problems. Live8 and the G8 are not the end result of the campaign to reduce debt. They are barely a starting point, and more likely than not, the leaders at the G8 summit will find (and have already found) ways around their promises of debt relief.

I'm sure U2 can acknowledge that New Orleans is a tremendous tragedy that has displaced hundereds of thousands of people--but the fact that it is our own nation and "our own people" (and those people who are victims of the natural disaster have their own experiences with inequality) doesn't merit, in my opinion, letting the issue of Africa recede.

I definately couldn't have said this better, my hat's off to you ruffian.

[U2girl]

People who don't want to hear about the troubles of a whole continent for a few minutes - at a U2 show, go figure - can stay home. I'd love their ticket.

I also don't see how some people are so sure he won't say anything about New Orleans. That said, let's keep the focus on what is the bigger issue.

Interestingly enough, people moaned about his Africa activism back on Elevation yet everyone loved it when Bono talked about 9/11.

[norsehorse23]

Well said... but I do think that some people in the US aren't really worried about Africa now. Like others have said, it isn't fair to compare the tsunami, the hurricane, or Africa. They are three completely different situations (one was predicted, one was a surprise, one is a result of the previously mentioned colonialism) with one common theme: people are suffering. Not to beat a dead horse and not to sound bitter or start a verbal war, but Europe hasn't exactly stepped up to the plate in helping out the displaced people in the South. Why does America always have to be the one that's criticized for doing too much or too little? Is the attitude in Europe: "America can handle this while other nations can't?" I certainly hope that isn't the attitude that is existing in Europe. I am not going to point fingers, but I am a little embarrassed by the apparent lack of action by people before the hurricane hit and afterwards. U2 can play a part in the healing process, but of course only a small part. Hurricane Katrina, although a disaster of unprecedented proportions in the US, was not a premeditated heartless act like 9/11.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally posted by U2girl
People who don't want to hear about the troubles of a whole continent for a few minutes - at a U2 show, go figure - can stay home. I'd love their ticket.

I also don't see how some people are so sure he won't say anything about New Orleans. That said, let's keep the focus on what is the bigger issue.

Interestingly enough, people moaned about his Africa activism back on Elevation yet everyone loved it when Bono talked about 9/11.

people who pay hundreds of dollars for tickets to see a singer who's wealthy beyond any of their imaginations talk about how we're not doing enough to help the poor will bitch and moan.... period.

those who are already educated on the issue know that the fact that he's wealthy has nothing to do with it and that throwing dollars at the cause is just a band aid on a gaping head wound.

but it's kinda tough to explain that to a half drunk crowd in 5 minutes. thus... people will bitch and moan about it once again.

the pain caused by events such as 9/11 and katrina is easy to understand. you can feel it. you can touch it. the issues in africa are a bit more complex.

before you start bashing americans, how many eurpoeans used the sarajevo satellite feeds as a bathroom break?

assholes are not limited to a single continent.

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


people who pay hundreds of dollars for tickets to see a singer who's wealthy beyond any of their imaginations talk about how we're not doing enough to help the poor will bitch and moan.... period.

those who are already educated on the issue know that the fact that he's wealthy has nothing to do with it and that throwing dollars at the cause is just a band aid on a gaping head wound.

but it's kinda tough to explain that to a half drunk crowd in 5 minutes. thus... people will bitch and moan about it once again.

the pain caused by events such as 9/11 and katrina is easy to understand. you can feel it. you can touch it. the issues in africa are a bit more complex.

before you start bashing americans, how many eurpoeans used the sarajevo satellite feeds as a bathroom break?

assholes are not limited to a single continent.

People going to U2 shows should know what to expect from Bono and the band. PERIOD.

It's not about issues being more complex, it's about "this happened here and I can relate but the other stuff is miles and miles away and I don't want to deal with it" attitude, or even better, "I'm at a rock show and want to have fun, no serious stuff better be talked about tonight".

I wasn't bashing Americans - this goes for everyone that is so eager to jump at a rock star actually promoting a good cause.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally posted by U2girl


People going to U2 shows should know what to expect from Bono and the band. PERIOD.

It's not about issues being more complex, it's about "this happened here and I can relate but the other stuff is miles and miles away and I don't want to deal with it" attitude, or even better, "I'm at a rock show and want to have fun, no serious stuff better be talked about tonight".

I wasn't bashing Americans - this goes for everyone that is so eager to jump at a rock star actually promoting a good cause.

the number of times i've heard the "if he cares about it so much why doesn't he just give them all his money and stop asking for ours we're already paying enough" is quite high.

[ruffian]

Originally posted by U2girl


It's not about issues being more complex, it's about "this happened here and I can relate but the other stuff is miles and miles away and I don't want to deal with it" attitude, or even better, "I'm at a rock show and want to have fun, no serious stuff better be talked about tonight".

[U2Man]

Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


the number of times i've heard the "if he cares about it so much why doesn't he just give them all his money and stop asking for ours we're already paying enough" is quite high.

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


the number of times i've heard the "if he cares about it so much why doesn't he just give them all his money and stop asking for ours we're already paying enough" is quite high.

How did we get from Bono talking about Katrina/Africa to Bono donating money?

Well, first I would say what he's doing is far more effective on the long run than him just giving his money, second people are very quick to assume he didn't/doesn't/won't donate money.

Besides either way he loses. He doesn't talk in public about his donations, people will say "he doesn't donate but wants to preach to us."
If he talks about his donations people will say "he's bragging about his charity, easy donating when you're a millionaire."

[u2wedge]

I think Bono could easily compare the two issues. Perhaps Bono could use what happened in New Orleans to associate a feeling with what is happening in Africa. I mean, it's one thing to tell us about it and that it needs to be corrected, but perhaps he can use the poverty evident in New Orleans as a tangible segue into the plight of Africans who are also suffering? I mean, his intro's into "Streets" have mentioned Louisiana, maybe he'll just tweak that a bit?