Vertigo Tour post New Orleans: major changes technically?

[gvox]

let's get real. America is more than capable of dealing with both its own problems and those of of another continent. The money that is spent to help Africa is a drop in a bucket compared to what is spent on war.

Im going to draw heat for this but while tragic, this hurricaine still can't compare (and neither event should be compared with the other) with thousands of people dying daily in Africa due to a situation that we can still address while taking care of homeless people here.

Bono doesn't need to 'be careful', alter his message one little bit. Leave the message the way it is during Streets and say something appropriate during another song like One

or how about Pride? with the human rights speech...food for thought...is what happened in N.O. a violation of people's basic human rights?

now there's a can of worms, if you ask me

[lovveu2]

Are you for real? American just suffered its biggest natural disaster. How could one have prepared for this?

What "basic human rights" were violated?

If you can figure away to get aid to people in three different states at the same time (with a radius that covers 426 square miles-just golf coast here) in like 3 seconds then maybe you should head the free world.

I love Monday Morning Quarterbacks............

[scottyT]

good call lovve.

[gvox]

Originally posted by lovveu2
Are you for real? American just suffered its biggest natural disaster. How could one have prepared for this?

What "basic human rights" were violated?

If you can figure away to get aid to people in three different states at the same time (with a radius that covers 426 square miles-just golf coast here) in like 3 seconds then maybe you should head the free world.

I love Monday Morning Quarterbacks............

Hi Barb

Did I say anywhere in my post that America should have been prepared for this? No. Funny for someone who knows me so well that you should consider my point of view so one-dimensional.

What basic human rights were violated? I don't know, maybe ask the people holed up inside the dome or the little girls that got raped or the people who felt so desperate that they committed suicide or the naked man who was taking a shit into a bucket. People waited days, not seconds, minutes or hours, for help. I consider that a basic rights issue.

To reiterate what I said, Bono doesnt need to be careful. The very notion sickens me. People can't stomach hearing him give proper attention to BOTH issues during a show? Americans don't want to hear about Africa right now?

The situation in NO is an anomaly. It's not happening daily. We will respectfully mourn the dead, chart ways to avoid the administrative mistakes in the future, and help to restore the displaced to some semblance of normal North American life.

What is happening in Africa is happening daily, it is millions of Africans reality. It is still the world's most pressing emergency, and I for one can't see why Bono would 'tone' down the message one little bit.

In a way, the message is universal. People in the low end of the class scale, the poor and the weak, always get the short end of the stick. They don't get the AIDS drugs in time, they don't get the relief efforts in time. No matter the continent, poverty is poverty, and in the case of NO, it turned out to be deadly.

I appreciate the 'monday quarterback' tag - you've always commented how you loved reading my opinions, and even more glad am I that you have finally decided to take me on!

[Muad'zin]

Originally posted by lovveu2
Are you for real? American just suffered its biggest natural disaster. How could one have prepared for this?

What "basic human rights" were violated?

If you can figure away to get aid to people in three different states at the same time (with a radius that covers 426 square miles-just golf coast here) in like 3 seconds then maybe you should head the free world.

I love Monday Morning Quarterbacks............

How could you not adequately be prepared? Hurricanes strike the coasts and the southern coasts several times a year. Surely somebody would sit up and think: hmm, with the yearly hurricane season it wouldn't hurt to have some adequate plans in case a major one comes along. Especially around NO which lies below sea level. Beter make sure the levees are up to the challenge.
Here in the Netherlands we had one major flooding in the 50's and we are still improving and raising our dykes to be prepared for the next one. To us it seemed like everybody in NO and the political higher ups couldn't care less and had this apres moi les deluge attitude. Nobody seemed to want to know the place was vulnerable so they just ignored it. A city of that magnitude in the Netherlands would have been protected by dykes of such magnitude it would have put the Maginot line to shame.

On a related sidenote. Whats with the houses made of wood in the US? Cause every hurricane or tornado seems to rip right through them. I once saw a docu on the Discovery channel where this street was ripped apart by a tornado and everybody had survived by taking shelter in the only house that survived. It was made out of bricks. Yet strangely nobody took the hint as everybody resorted to wood again for rebuilding their homes.

[prof_peabody]

Originally posted by Muad'zin


How could you not adequately be prepared? Hurricanes strike the coasts and the southern coasts several times a year. Surely somebody would sit up and think: hmm, with the yearly hurricane season it wouldn't hurt to have some adequate plans in case a major one comes along. Especially around NO which lies below sea level. Beter make sure the levees are up to the challenge.
Here in the Netherlands we had one major flooding in the 50's and we are still improving and raising our dykes to be prepared for the next one. To us it seemed like everybody in NO and the political higher ups couldn't care less and had this apres moi les deluge attitude. Nobody seemed to want to know the place was vulnerable so they just ignored it. A city of that magnitude in the Netherlands would have been protected by dykes of such magnitude it would have put the Maginot line to shame.

On a related sidenote. Whats with the houses made of wood in the US? Cause every hurricane or tornado seems to rip right through them. I once saw a docu on the Discovery channel where this street was ripped apart by a tornado and everybody had survived by taking shelter in the only house that survived. It was made out of bricks. Yet strangely nobody took the hint as everybody resorted to wood again for rebuilding their homes.

The Netherlands was saved from complete disaster in 1953 when a brave captain navigated his vessel into a breach in the dike system. They learned from that lesson, but large areas had to be flooded in order for the Paysbasians to do anything. The problems in New Orleans have been predicted for some time. In 2001 a paper was published in scientific american warning of the disaster. The US Army Corps of Engineers knew that the levees were only built to withstand a Category 3 hurricane. Everytime I went to New Orleans several people took time to explain the soup bowl concept to me and I asked what the plans were if they got a major storm surge and I got this dumbfounded look. You can watch the tankers float by ABOVE you in downtown New Orleans. Last year the American Association of Petroleum Geologists published an entire issue on the problems of coastal Lousiana.

Unfortunately politics is on too short a time scale for politicians to address huge problems of this nature. It almost requires a disaster to get their attention.

In the 1940s land around the San Andreas fault line were protected from development, but since then wealthy developers have had their way and been allowed to develop homes right on the fault zone. Very few buildings in that area can withstand a magnitude 9 Earthquake, but that are is being further developed every day. Talk to any US seismologist and they will tell you what kind of disaster looms in California. It will be worse than New Orleans.

[lovveu2]

Originally posted by gabrielvox


Hi Barb

Did I say anywhere in my post that America should have been prepared for this? No. Funny for someone who knows me so well that you should consider my point of view so one-dimensional.

What basic human rights were violated? I don't know, maybe ask the people holed up inside the dome or the little girls that got raped or the people who felt so desperate that they committed suicide or the naked man who was taking a shit into a bucket. People waited days, not seconds, minutes or hours, for help. I consider that a basic rights issue.

To reiterate what I said, Bono doesnt need to be careful. The very notion sickens me. People can't stomach hearing him give proper attention to BOTH issues during a show? Americans don't want to hear about Africa right now?

The situation in NO is an anomaly. It's not happening daily. We will respectfully mourn the dead, chart ways to avoid the administrative mistakes in the future, and help to restore the displaced to some semblance of normal North American life.

What is happening in Africa is happening daily, it is millions of Africans reality. It is still the world's most pressing emergency, and I for one can't see why Bono would 'tone' down the message one little bit.

In a way, the message is universal. People in the low end of the class scale, the poor and the weak, always get the short end of the stick. They don't get the AIDS drugs in time, they don't get the relief efforts in time. No matter the continent, poverty is poverty, and in the case of NO, it turned out to be deadly.

I appreciate the 'monday quarterback' tag - you've always commented how you loved reading my opinions, and even more glad am I that you have finally decided to take me on!

I'll tell you what...you debate how long it took to get aid to them or what and if Bono should mention and during what song. I will act. See as of last night Chicago received 143 people of the 5000 to 10,000 we are expecting. So while you play quarterback... I will act!

Sorry that is the best my simplistic mind can come up with...I'm tired... I was "working" for solutions last night and will be doing the same tonight when we hold a rally at my daughter's school to look for temporary housing, schools, etc for these misplaced people ( just can't bring myself to call them refugees). We can't change the past but we can effect the future!

BTW Americans are not so self centered that we can't hear about others in need. We are capable of taking care of OUR needs and anything else that is thrown into the mix! (it's call multitasking and we do it well)

[Headache in a Suitcase]

before this thread starts turning into an anti-american pissing thread...

yes, i know... in the grand scheme of things, what happened in new orleans is small time compared to the millions who die in africa, the tsunami, etc. etc. etc.

but fact of the matter is it is still a tragedy of an epic nature, and it's hitting americans hard right now. all i'm saying, which is exactly what chizip is saying, that if he does as much africa talk on the third leg as he did on the first, there may be a bit of a "oh shut up already" attitude from many people. not from me, but from the general masses.

i'm not saying eliminate the africa talk... i'm just saying cut it back a tad. there is a point where a message, as great and wonderful as that message may be, can start to get annoying. like it or not, that's just fact.

live8 happened... the g8 made progress on the issue... and now america is worried about what's going on in the gulf region. you could be a doctor or social worker... whatever... someone who deals with helping other people, but if someone in your own family suffers a horrific tragedy, your focus is obviously going to shift to your own family, even though there are still others out there suffering as much if not more. it's simple human nature. it's the same with a nation... yes, there's people around the world suffering as much if not more than those in new orleans and the rest of the gulf region. but those suffering down south right now are our own people. they're part of our family. obviously our thoughts will be with them first.

and just like if a family member of ours died for a stupid reason, we would get annoyed and pissed off if someone from another family started telling us how it was our own fault? yea... same goes for this. trust me... i know we fucked up. we know we fucked up. doesn't diminish the fact that thousands of our own are dead. so take your shnide little comments about how we should have known and it's our own fault and, frankly, to be kind, shove 'em up your fucking ass.

[gvox]

Originally posted by lovveu2


I'll tell you what...you debate how long it took to get aid to them or what and if Bono should mention and during what song. I will act. See as of last night Chicago received 143 people of the 5000 to 10,000 we are expecting. So while you play quarterback... I will act!

Sorry that is the best my simplistic mind can come up with...I'm tired... I was "working" for solutions last night and will be doing the same tonight when we hold a rally at my daughter's school to look for temporary housing, schools, etc for these misplaced people ( just can't bring myself to call them refugees). We can't change the past but we can effect the future!

BTW Americans are not so self centered that we can't hear about others in need. We are capable of taking care of OUR needs and anything else that is thrown into the mix! (it's call multitasking and we do it well)

Good God, get off your high horse. I'm elated that your city is doing everything it can to help. I'm not debating it whether Bono should say anything or not one little bit. There is no rational debate possible on the topic.

I'm playing quarterback??? Check this out - I believe that one of the main principles of giving is to let your giving be done in secret, at least that was His idea of it - but I will tell you that I'm doing what I can and you already know about some of it so what exactly are you on me about? In addition, my dad was one of those Maritime families who personally offered their homes to evacuees. Feel silly yet?

I wish you'd read my posts properly. I didn't say that Americans in general couldn't handle it, I asked the question rhetorically and sarcastically to the, note, I'll highlight it, *posters in this thread* who stated that that might be the case and that Bono should be careful, and that, I quote, "Americans dont want to hear about Africa right now"

I would HOPE that the majority of Americans (which group I know you to belong to) at U2 concerts could handle hearing about both tragedies in one night and not feel that their tragedy is being disrespected or whatever.

So please dont let me be misunderstood again.

[lovveu2]

Originally posted by gabrielvox





What is happening in Africa is happening daily, it is millions of Africans reality. It is still the world's most pressing emergency, and I for one can't see why Bono would 'tone' down the message one little bit.

I am sure you are not questioning my commitment to Africa are you? Since you know me "well" you know that I have worked tirelessly on this since the mid 80's.

My ONLY point was that everyone expected us (the people of the UNITED STATES) to react faster. I have grown tired of people questioning what happened in the first 72 hours...I want to see what people are going to do in the here and now.

[lovveu2]

Originally posted by gabrielvox



Feel silly yet?

Not in the least!

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
so take your shnide little comments about how we should have known and it's our own fault and, frankly, to be kind, shove 'em up your fucking ass.

my appologies for this one... i let my emotions take over.

i should have said friggin butt instead.

[U2dork]

Great post, Headache. You've sumed it up quite nicely.

[lovveu2]

Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase

and just like if a family member of ours died for a stupid reason, we would get annoyed and pissed off if someone from another family started telling us how it was our own fault? yea... same goes for this. trust me... i know we fucked up. we know we fucked up. doesn't diminish the fact that thousands of our own are dead. so take your shnide little comments about how we should have known and it's our own fault and, frankly, to be kind, shove 'em up your fucking ass.

Well said!

[gvox]

Originally posted by lovveu2


I am sure you are not questioning my commitment to Africa are you? Since you know me "well" you know that I have worked tirelessly on this since the mid 80's.

I don't know why you feel compelled to continue to remind me of what you are working on. I also don't know why you personalized this in the first place, I've repeatedly tried to clarify what I'm saying here, and you still keep applying it to yourself.

Therefore, I'm out. You and what you are doing was never a part of my opinion and you should damn well have known that.

[lovveu2]

Originally posted by gabrielvox



I'm out. .

As I said we are the "UNITED STATES of American...so I do take it personally.

[LPU2]

I think it's silly to think that Bono will suddenly change his focus from Africa to New Orleans. They're saying that the death toll on the Gulf Coast could reach 10,000. That many people die every couple of days in Africa.

But there is a common element in both of these tragedies: poverty. And how we ought to take better care of one another. I think that's what Bono will focus on. Because, when you think about it, hasn't that been the message all along?

[gvox]

Originally posted by lovveu2

As I said we are the "UNITED STATES of American...so I do take it personally.

You take me taking issue with what posters on Interference say personally? Whoa, since when did you join the Blue Mob?

After all, that is all I've been commenting on

That the notion that Americans cant/dont care about both issues is to me ridiculous.

And you seemed to agree with that comment.

So why are you still on me again? lol

[gvox]

Originally posted by LPU2

But there is a common element in both of these tragedies: poverty. And how we ought to take better care of one another. I think that's what Bono will focus on. Because, when you think about it, hasn't that been the message all along?

Thank you Thank you Thank you!!! What Ive been saying!

Treating poor people like shit ANYWHERE in the world is a situation worth our attention for a few seconds at a U2 concert!

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally posted by gabrielvox


Thank you Thank you Thank you!!! What Ive been saying!

Treating poor people like shit ANYWHERE in the world is a situation worth our attention for a few seconds at a U2 concert!

no one's saying eliminate it... all i'm saying is that if he bloviates on for 5 minutes at a time, which he's known to do, that the message will get lost.

what bono is doing is baisicly advertising his cause... like any advertising campaign, there comes a point where people don't want to hear it anymore... no matter how great the product is. what bono's selling here is a product of the greatest magnitude... simple human dignity for all. but continuing to run it into the ground could get his message lost, and that's the last thing we want to happen.

he educated us on the first leg... now, he can simply restate the issue, talk about the success, thank the people for hteir support in the one campaign, tell us that the work isn't done, and move on.

don't eliminate it... just tie it up nicely.