Pearl Jam was right.
- Thread starter JOFO
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
PurpleSeven
The Fly
Damn Straight.
innocent_eyes
Refugee
mmhmm, maybe if their music was better people would have listened...lol, jk!
Russty Cat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
Pearl Jam was definetly on to something when they took on the big demon that is Ticketbastard! I have much love for PJ when it comes to the crap they've gone thru to make it affordable for their fans. I was so happy with the way they handled their fan club tickets last tour. I saw many great shows, from awesome seats for only $50 a piece. You can't beat that.
Zoomerang96
ONE love, blood, life
Jamila said:I supported Pearl Jam's principled stance then - I see the wisdom of it now!
I only wish that U2 wouldn't have gotten involved with Fanfire and Ticketmaster.
i agree, and you can add clear channel to the mix.
I thought U2 originally did that also when they did their own tkts thru Prop. Other groups did not do that really before U2 that I remember. Now most do for their fan club members, still only 10% of the tkts, since Tbastard won't let them do more than 10%. I remember U2 being vocal along with Bruce Springsteen about TM. Since there's no govt. agency doing a thing about the monopoly, repubs wouldn't want to hurt "corporations," and most venues are owned by those "in bed" with TM, and isn't TM now owned by Clear Channel, thus all the channels of concert going are not only a monopoly (which is illegal except in repubs America), but there is no legitimate way for a group to perform unless they would own their own venues as well. Most of the arenas in the U.S. are owned by Anshutz, or Clear Channel, all financed by taxpayers, who then don't even get any tkts.
So U2, Bruce, etc. should all get together and buy all the arenas, and the radio stations too while they're at it, all they do is play the same rap song nonstop over and over, or whatever other crap they receive their payola to play, and then good music would be back on the radio, and tkts would be abundant for regular people.
So U2, Bruce, etc. should all get together and buy all the arenas, and the radio stations too while they're at it, all they do is play the same rap song nonstop over and over, or whatever other crap they receive their payola to play, and then good music would be back on the radio, and tkts would be abundant for regular people.
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editorinchief
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no ticketmaster=no tour
Ticketmaster has exclusive contracts with just about every major venue in the country. If you want to put on a viable tour and especially one the scope of a U2 tour then you have no alternative.
U2 doesnt have a choice who the ticket provider is when they tour.
This is also true for ClearChannel. In fact, ClearChannel is worse because they own over 100 radio stations. If you dont play ball with them they drop you from their playlists and your album doesnt sell.
Pearl Jam is my favorite band. I commend them for what they did and they were right. However, from a touring perspective it crippled them until they were willing to use Ticketmaster again starting in 98'.
Ticketmaster has exclusive contracts with just about every major venue in the country. If you want to put on a viable tour and especially one the scope of a U2 tour then you have no alternative.
U2 doesnt have a choice who the ticket provider is when they tour.
This is also true for ClearChannel. In fact, ClearChannel is worse because they own over 100 radio stations. If you dont play ball with them they drop you from their playlists and your album doesnt sell.
Pearl Jam is my favorite band. I commend them for what they did and they were right. However, from a touring perspective it crippled them until they were willing to use Ticketmaster again starting in 98'.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I remember Pearl Jam's non-Ticketmaster tour in 1996...unfortunately TM is a necessary evil.
Everyone likes to complain about them, but try getting tix without their service, try waiting in a line of thousands at a box office.
Everyone likes to complain about them, but try getting tix without their service, try waiting in a line of thousands at a box office.
Fast Eddy
The Fly
I remember PJ's ballsy move well--they were at the height of their popularity and they took on the monster.
It was sad to see them struggle, though--they were shut out of all the decent venues and ended up playing some pretty funky places. Pretty much crippled them. I think after that tour they gave in.
What I want to know is what sorts of conversations were going on about ticketbastard among U2 and Paul McGuiness, or Springsteen? What prevented them from falling in behind PJ? Was it simply fear that they'd foul up their careers? U2 had just come off Zoo TV and had just about lost their shirts (only merchandising saved them from a total financial disaster), so maybe they were scared to risk anything.
Thing is, if all the big artists had joined PJ and told TB that they couldn't charge exorbitant fees to ticket purchasers, it probably would've forced TB to come to negotiate. As it was, TB pretty much told PJ "it's our way or the highway." End of story.
Also, where is the Dept. of Justice in all this? Remember, the PJ thing happened during a Democratic Administration. At the time they were whipping the piss out of Microsoft, but if you ask me TB and CC have a more blatant monopoly than MS ever did, and they abuse it with impunity.
It's sad. Not to knock U2, after all this is how they make their money, and their whole mission is to "sell U2," as McGuiness once said, but I don't understand why they spoke up in defense of Pearl Jam and then didn't back it up with any action.
As far as I can see, the big artists have pretty much resigned themselves to the state of things (the lesser artists don't have a choice), and TB and CC pretty much call the shots. It's the music industry at its absolute sleaziest.
It was sad to see them struggle, though--they were shut out of all the decent venues and ended up playing some pretty funky places. Pretty much crippled them. I think after that tour they gave in.
What I want to know is what sorts of conversations were going on about ticketbastard among U2 and Paul McGuiness, or Springsteen? What prevented them from falling in behind PJ? Was it simply fear that they'd foul up their careers? U2 had just come off Zoo TV and had just about lost their shirts (only merchandising saved them from a total financial disaster), so maybe they were scared to risk anything.
Thing is, if all the big artists had joined PJ and told TB that they couldn't charge exorbitant fees to ticket purchasers, it probably would've forced TB to come to negotiate. As it was, TB pretty much told PJ "it's our way or the highway." End of story.
Also, where is the Dept. of Justice in all this? Remember, the PJ thing happened during a Democratic Administration. At the time they were whipping the piss out of Microsoft, but if you ask me TB and CC have a more blatant monopoly than MS ever did, and they abuse it with impunity.
It's sad. Not to knock U2, after all this is how they make their money, and their whole mission is to "sell U2," as McGuiness once said, but I don't understand why they spoke up in defense of Pearl Jam and then didn't back it up with any action.
As far as I can see, the big artists have pretty much resigned themselves to the state of things (the lesser artists don't have a choice), and TB and CC pretty much call the shots. It's the music industry at its absolute sleaziest.
Russty Cat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
Fast Eddy I agree with what you had to say totally! I often wondered why some of the bigger bands didn't back PJ in the whole fight. There are power in numbers. And I seriously think the goverment should step in, if CC and TB don't have a monoply then I don't know what one is.
I can understand being weary about loosing money and all, but at the end of the day wouldn't you rather have your morals intact and have fought one for the little guy. In the end I guess it truly is all about the almighty dollar.
I can understand being weary about loosing money and all, but at the end of the day wouldn't you rather have your morals intact and have fought one for the little guy. In the end I guess it truly is all about the almighty dollar.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Tix for U2's Oakland shows were sold online thru what outlet?
Oh yeah...Tickets.com
Sorry to say, Ticketmaster does not have a monopoly, so the government is not going to do anything about them.
Their fees are outrageous, but didn't many of us get reduced fees on some of our U2.com presale tix? I know I did, so U2 did do a small bit of negotiating with TM for some fans' benefit.
The truth is Ticketmaster has created the most efficient system for ticket distribution, and the fans pay for that system, not the artist or the venue...so we as fans are doomed to pay their convenience fees, but you would be surprised at how much more bitching there'd be if TM didn't exist and ticket buying was much more of a hassle, requiring us to get off our butts and away from our computers and phones and spend several hours in line to buy tickets for any show we want to attnd.
Oh yeah...Tickets.com
Sorry to say, Ticketmaster does not have a monopoly, so the government is not going to do anything about them.
Their fees are outrageous, but didn't many of us get reduced fees on some of our U2.com presale tix? I know I did, so U2 did do a small bit of negotiating with TM for some fans' benefit.
The truth is Ticketmaster has created the most efficient system for ticket distribution, and the fans pay for that system, not the artist or the venue...so we as fans are doomed to pay their convenience fees, but you would be surprised at how much more bitching there'd be if TM didn't exist and ticket buying was much more of a hassle, requiring us to get off our butts and away from our computers and phones and spend several hours in line to buy tickets for any show we want to attnd.
editorinchief
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Hewson said:
So one show in the USA is sold via another ticketing service means that there is a blanced and equitable market?
editorinchief
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I was using Oakland as an example, Buffalo is also on Tickets.com.editorinchief said:
Is the market balanced and equitable...no...does Ticketmaster have a monopoly...no.
Is any market in our economy "balanced and equitable"?
How did you get your luxury box seats for the Fleetcenter?
Not thru Ticketmaster I'm guessing.
There are ways of avoiding TM, but they are less convenient.
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editorinchief
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if 95+ % of the major arenas have exclusive contracts with Ticketmaster then I would call that a monopoly as nobody else can compete for the business.
I agree that Ticketmaster has the best system as they should. Who is going to invest money in creating technology they cant use?
Are companies going to invest tens of millions of dollars to service the metropolis of Buffalo and their ticketing needs? Probably not?
If only one guy has a car then nobody else will bother trying to build a better wheel.
I agree that Ticketmaster has the best system as they should. Who is going to invest money in creating technology they cant use?
Are companies going to invest tens of millions of dollars to service the metropolis of Buffalo and their ticketing needs? Probably not?
If only one guy has a car then nobody else will bother trying to build a better wheel.
editorinchief
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I got my luxury box seats because I work for a major music magazine and have connections at the Fleetcenter because of it.
Yes, if you want to get a degree in english/journalism and spend years working in the music industry and networking then you can "find a way around" Ticketmaster.
Yes, if you want to get a degree in english/journalism and spend years working in the music industry and networking then you can "find a way around" Ticketmaster.
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
You can also go to the venue box office to buy your tickets and avoid Ticketmaster.editorinchief said:
However for a lot of people its worth the $10.00 or so per ticket to sit at home on Saturday morning rather than venture to the venue and stand in line.
Believe me I don't like Ticketmaster, but I've experienced how things work without them, and that side of things is no fun either.
editorinchief
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In the internet age with shows selling out in less than a minute I dont think going to the venue, or outlets, is a viable option to purchase tickets.
Im not picking a fight with you. Yes, you are right that Ticketmaster does have the best system and technology. However, with nobody else to compete against there is nobody to keep them honest. If they want to charge 25% convenience fee there is nobody to stop them. If they want to be erratic in how they distribute tickets or handle customer service issues there is nobody to stop them.
U2 may be able to negotiate a better fee for presale tickets for their fan club. U2 is the exception rather than the rule.
What about the mid level bands charging 20-30 a ticket and then Ticketmaster imposes $10 convenice fee. It prices fans out of that show and, potentially, breaks that band.
Its not the end of the world. We are only talking about concerts but Ticketmasterand and ClearChannel do have monopolies. The whole basis of anti-trust laws is so companies cant bully their patrons, price gauge and stifle innovation. These are the exact things these two companies are doing.
Im not picking a fight with you. Yes, you are right that Ticketmaster does have the best system and technology. However, with nobody else to compete against there is nobody to keep them honest. If they want to charge 25% convenience fee there is nobody to stop them. If they want to be erratic in how they distribute tickets or handle customer service issues there is nobody to stop them.
U2 may be able to negotiate a better fee for presale tickets for their fan club. U2 is the exception rather than the rule.
What about the mid level bands charging 20-30 a ticket and then Ticketmaster imposes $10 convenice fee. It prices fans out of that show and, potentially, breaks that band.
Its not the end of the world. We are only talking about concerts but Ticketmasterand and ClearChannel do have monopolies. The whole basis of anti-trust laws is so companies cant bully their patrons, price gauge and stifle innovation. These are the exact things these two companies are doing.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I hear ya, and I agree that the system is definitely flawed, and TM and CC wield way too much power...it would be nice if there were some regulation or capping of convenience charges, especially as you pointed out for the smaller shows, so your convenience fee isn't 35-40% of ticket price (which I've seen).
But sadly the Gov't is not gonna do anything, TM is an efficient system that ultimately works reasonably well, the main problem is the cost, and since only the consumer bears it, artists(most of them anyway) and venue owners aren't gonna do much to try and change it.
But sadly the Gov't is not gonna do anything, TM is an efficient system that ultimately works reasonably well, the main problem is the cost, and since only the consumer bears it, artists(most of them anyway) and venue owners aren't gonna do much to try and change it.
vespertine
Babyface
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You do not know what a monopoly means. Or at least you do not demonstrate a good understanding of the term. A monopolistic industry does not have to be an industry controlled 100% by one firm. Ticketmaster is a monopoly because they alone can determine where bands play (#1), and they set the prices in the market, ie the fees they tack onto your ticket (#2). The market itself does not determine these two things, which in a competitive industry of competing venues and ticketing agencies it (the market) would (determine prices via competition).
jachba
The Fly
It's even worse here in Canada. We also have to factor in the currency differences and the sales taxes. That means that I can no longer afford to see U2.
the olive
The Fly
I am not as concerned with the service fees as I am with where the tickets are going. How come so many of the best seats are not even available when tickets go on sale? These tickets seem to go directly from TM to the "brokers". How come I am subjected to a 2 or 4 ticket limit, yet the brokers can get hundreds of tickets? The days of scalpers offering bums $20 to stand in line at the ticket booth overnight are over, these tickets are coming right from the source.
A Pearl Jam tour is on the horizon, check out their website with the mods checking in making sure everyones memberships are up to date.
In response to PJ taking on ticketmaster and selling tickets for 35-45 dollars, they are a special band. Other bands should not be compared to them in terms of fan loyalty bc none will compare
In response to PJ taking on ticketmaster and selling tickets for 35-45 dollars, they are a special band. Other bands should not be compared to them in terms of fan loyalty bc none will compare
editorinchief said:
wrong analogy; a better one is:
If only one guy has a car and tries to charge you $165 a ride, someone else should manufacture another car and charge less.
in fact, dozens of people should manufacture cars and then it will be a fair and competitive market.
who's to say ticketmaster won't start charging $250 for GA anytime soon? they can do whatever they want....and don't tell me no one will buy them; they will sell.
editorinchief
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jammin909 said:A Pearl Jam tour is on the horizon, check out their website with the mods checking in making sure everyones memberships are up to date.
In response to PJ taking on ticketmaster and selling tickets for 35-45 dollars, they are a special band. Other bands should not be compared to them in terms of fan loyalty bc none will compare
Im up to date- membership number 38XXX !!!!
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I understand the term fine, TM does not have a monopoly.vespertine said:
I don't necessarily think you understand who Ticketmaster is:
Ticketmaster doesn't set the ticket prices...the band/band's management/promoter do that.
They don't determine where the band plays, again, same people do that.
They only provide the system for selling tickets for most of the venues.
They do determine the fee they charge, as Tickets.com determines what fee they charge (shockingly their fees are often as high and sometimes higher than TM's), and NEXT ticketing in New England determines their fees and many other regional ticketing outlets determine their own fees.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Damn, I thought I had a kick ass member # at 70XXXeditorinchief said:
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