Logistics

[ntalwar]

$10 a head on merchandise is HUGE. When you consider that a t-shirt costs less than $1 to make (I know for a fact, I did screen printing to get myself through college) and they sell it for $40? And programs that cost $30-$40? You think those cost more than a fiver to make? There is clearly more made on merchandise than ticketing.

I think you need to reconsider your GROSS argument in light of the reality of finances.

I feel better now, Ouizy agrees with me! I knew I wasn't hallucinating!

If that's the case, why bother even touring? Just sell merchandise.

You might want to study Forbes list of high earning musicians. In almost every example, the artist's tour as a key source of income is mentioned. Merchandise is only mentioned for P. Diddy, who has a clothing line sold through retail outlets. Forbes does not mention merchandise sales at all for the other artists .

For Madonna:
"...grossing $125 million on a worldwide tour."

For Elton John:
"...Rocketman made a lucrative landing in Las Vegas, sold his management company and launched a worldwide tour..."

For Shania Twain:
"...But with her wildly successful "Up!" tour, Twain..."

For Van Halen:
"...Their first tour in years generated millions for the group—one of the biggest rock acts of the 80s and 90s..."

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/53/Musicians_Rank_1.html

 

[ouizy]

All I can say is that I trust Forbes as much as I can throw them.

They are very often inaccurate, and/or leave out information.

STING2 - as much as I love your posts, I honestly feel that the GROSS figure at some point includes merchandise.

I have always read - no matter who the band is, or what the venue is, that the real profit behind any tour is in the merchandise.

I believe this.

 

[STING2]

Source, please?

I'm willing to wager that is not even close to their costs. Yes, U2 are light years ahead, and I say this translates to significantly more cost than Green Day's or Coldplay's costs. I don't think they have nearly the talent behind them like O'Herlihy, Schoo, Morgan, O'Sullivan, Williams, etc. And they certainly don't have the technology. And both the people and the technology costs serious money. Do you think ticket prices jumped to the mid $100s just for kicks? No, they have to cover COSTS. The fact that they had to play for nearly 6 months before they even broke even is an indication of the staggering COSTS involved. Those folks don't work for free and they certainly don't pay their way around the world.

And what were the face values of the tickets on Green Day's tour, and Coldplay's? Not nearly $100 face, you say? Yeah, I thought so... (Note, Coldplay's top ticket in my area is $75)

And I don't think you need a lesson on NET vs. GROSS, do you? Because now that people are throwing around net worth and stuff, this is getting all bunged up.

$10 a head on merchandise is HUGE. When you consider that a t-shirt costs less than $1 to make (I know for a fact, I did screen printing to get myself through college) and they sell it for $40? And programs that cost $30-$40? You think those cost more than a fiver to make? There is clearly more made on merchandise than ticketing.

I think you need to reconsider your GROSS argument in light of the reality of finances.

I feel better now, Ouizy agrees with me! I knew I wasn't hallucinating!

1. I already gave you a source in prior posts. Carter Allen's "Outside Is America" list the daily cost of ZOO TV and the POPMART tour stadium legs. The IRISH TIMES reported that the cost of the European leg of the Vertigo Tour was 32 million Euros. The GROSS of European Leg of the Vertigo Tour was $155 million dollars which in Euros is 127 million Euros. That means the band walked away from the European leg of the tour, the most expensive part of the tour do to the number stadium shows played, with a whopping profit of 95 million Euros!

2. The band would never play a show where the cost exceeded money grossed from ticket sales. The band played a few stadiums on POPMART in the USA where sellouts were achieved with only 30,000 tickets sold and around a 1.5 million GROSS. Average GROSS for the Stadium legs in Europe is $4.9 million dollars and the cost adjusted for inflation is roughly the same as the POPMART tour.

3. Ticket prices were already in the mid 100s on the ELEVATION TOUR! There is nothing about the Arena leg of the Vertigo tour that is significantly more expensive than that for the Elevation Tour. The average ticket price in North America on Elevation was $81 US dollars, the average price on Vertigo is $96 US dollars in North America. The increase in price is profit.

4. The ticket prices for any U2 tour are determined by DEMAND. The band has never priced to tickets to simply cover cost. Every artist prices tickets based on their market value. For some artist, that means only covering cost with little if any profit. For U2, this translates into massive unprecidented profits.

5. The qoute you have from the Business Magazine about U2 only breaking even at the 6 month mark of the tour is actually not a direct qoute of McGuinness and even if it was, would not make sense. The Bands GROSS at that point was $204 million dollars (60 shows)! The GROSS for the entire Elevation tour was $143 million dollars(113 shows) and that tour had some of the bands largest profits given the huge difference between the cost of the arena tour and the GROSS from the highest ticket prices in U2's history at that time. In order for the 6 month mark claim by the mag to be accurate, the Vertigo Tour would have to cost DOUBLE the Elevation tour just to that point.

6. The same people who worked on the Elevation Tour are the people who are working on the Vertigo Tour. The labor cost and set up of the Arena tour on Vertigo is not substantially different than that on Elevation. While the Stadium cost for Vertigo are much larger than the Arena's, adjusted for inflation, there is nothing significantly different than the cost for POPMART. POPMART had a larger screen, required just as many trucks and crew, and had the same principle people operating and directing the tour.

7. Considering all this, there is no way that the Vertigo Tour could cost $204 million dollars after 6 months, considering that the previous tour Elevation only GROSSED $143 million dollars from the entire tour.

Those are the realities you need to look at. If more is made from Merchandising than ticketing, this will mean that the total cost of the VERTIGO tour once it finishes in November will be around $350 million dollars given that the total Merchandise profit will be around $45 million dollars and the GROSS from ticketing will be around $400 million dollars.

So you are saying that the VERTIGO Tour cost $350 million dollars + compared to the Elevation tour which GROSSED $143 million dollars. Even if we were to assume that the Elevation tour total GROSS of $143 million dollars equaled its total cost, this means that the Vertigo Tour cost 150% more than the Elevation tour, which is simply absurd given that most of the basic cost for the Arena portions are exactly the same!

I think you need to reconsider your arguement in light of the GROSS figures which are all well documented and reported, the source material for the daily cost of ZOO TV and POPMART stadium legs, and the SIMPLE comparisons between the gross figures for Elevation and Vertigo. No band would undertake a tour that cost more than any total previous tour GROSS the band has ever done.

Given what is known about the cost for the POPMART tour, the most accurate estimate of the cost of the current Vertigo Tour is around $100 million dollars. The IRISH TIMES reported that the cost for the European Leg of the Vertigo tour was 32 million Euros. The GROSS from the European leg was $155 million dollars which in Euros is 127 million! The profit just from the sale of tickets was 95 million Euros, while the profit from merchandise at 10 dollars per head was 20 million dollars or 16.5 million Euros. Profits from tickets on the European tour were nearly 6 times that for merchandise!

 

[STING2]

All I can say is that I trust Forbes as much as I can throw them.

They are very often inaccurate, and/or leave out information.

STING2 - as much as I love your posts, I honestly feel that the GROSS figure at some point includes merchandise.

I have always read - no matter who the band is, or what the venue is, that the real profit behind any tour is in the merchandise.

I believe this.

Generally that is true for MOST artist and bands but not in the case of artist like U2 and the Rolling Stones and some of the smaller grossing artist on tour.

If you believe that U2 will make the majority of its money on the Vertigo tour from merchandise as opposed to touring, then your claiming that the Vertigo Tour cost more than $350 million dollars. The band makes 10 dollars per person on merchandise. The Vertigo tour will be attended by 4.5 million people meaning a $45 million dollar profit from merchadise.

The GROSS for the tour will be around $400 million dollars. If the profit from Merchadise is greater than the profit from tickets, then this means the tour cost more than $350 million dollars, more than twice as much as the total GROSS for the Elevation tour 4 years earlier. The cost to put on the arena show on Elevation is not really any different than the cost of puting on the Vertigo Arena show.


The GROSS figures I have presented are only from the sell of tickets: U2's tour is not over yet, but here is the entire tour statistics for GROSS and attendance of every show on the tour played so far. The final numbers will come in after the band completes the tour in November/December of this year. 10 more stadium shows remain.




1ST LEG of VERTIGO WORLD TOUR: NORTH AMERICA

1, 2. San Diego, California : March 28, 30, 2005 : ipayOne Center at the Sports Arena : GROSS $2,909,029 : ATTENDANCE 29,140 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

3, 4. Anaheim, California : April 1-2, 2005 : Arrowhead Pond : GROSS $3,454,198 : ATTENDANCE 33,535 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

5, 6. Los Angeles, California : April 5-6, 2005 : Staples Center : GROSS $3,673,850 : ATTENDANCE 34,527 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

7, 8. San Jose, California : April 9-10, 2005 : HP Pavillion : GROSS $3,357,098 : ATTENDANCE 36,140 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

9, 10. Glendale, Arizona : April 14-15, 2005 : Glendale Arena : GROSS $3,198,861 : ATTENDANCE 34,905 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

11, 12. Denver Colorado : April 20-21, 2005 : Pepsi Center : GROSS $3,509,741 : ATTENDANCE 36,714 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

13, 14. Seattle, Washington : April 24-25, 2005 : Key Arena : GROSS $3,105,574 : ATTENDANCE 30,251 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

15, 16. Vancouver, British Columbia : April 28-29, 2005 : General Motors Place : GROSS $3,020,466 : ATTENDANCE 37,031 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

17, 18, 19, 20. Chicago, Illinois : May 7-12, 2005 : United Center : GROSS $7,541,679 : ATTENDANCE 77,173 : SHOWS 4 : SELLOUTS 4

21, 25. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania : May 14-22, 2005 : Wachovia Center : GROSS $3,767,178 : ATTENDANCE 39,273 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

22, 23. East Rutherford, New Jersey : May 17-18, 2005 : Continental Airlines Arena : GROSS $3,838,066 : ATTENDANCE 40,347 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

24. New York, New York : May 21, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $1,907,086 : ATTENDANCE 18,415 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

26, 27, 28. Boston, Mass. : May 24, 26, 28, 2005 : FleetCenter : GROSS $5,071,565 : ATTENDANCE 51,658 : SHOWS 3 : SELLOUTS 3

1ST LEG of VERTIGO WORLD TOUR TOTALS

GROSS: $48,354,391
ATTENDANCE: 499,109
AVERAGE GROSS PER SHOW: $1,726,942.5
AVERAGE ATTENDANCE PER SHOW: 17,825
AVERAGE TICKET PRICE: $96.88
SHOWS: 28
SELLOUTS: 28



2ND LEG OF VERTIGO WORLD TOUR: EUROPE

29. Brussels, Belgium : June 10, 2005 : Koning Boudewijn Stadion : GROSS $4,864,554 : ATTENDANCE 60,499 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

30. Gelsenkirchen, Germany : June 12, 2005 : Arena AufSchalke : GROSS $4,203,947 : ATTENDANCE 59,120 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

31, 32. Manchester, England : June 14-15, 2005 : City Of Manchester Stadium : GROSS $11,119,740 : ATTENDANCE 107,671 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

33, 34. London, England : June 18-19, 2005 : Twickenham Stadium : GROSS $13,677,410 : ATTENDANCE 110,796 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

35. Glasgow, Scotland : June 21, 2005 : Hampden Park : GROSS $5,819,053 : ATTENDANCE 53,395 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

36, 37, 38. Dublin, Ireland : June 24-25, 27, 2005 : Croke Park : GROSS $21,163,695 : ATTENDANCE 246,743 : SHOWS 3 : SELLOUTS 3

39. Cardiff, Wales : June 29, 2005 : Millennium Stadium : GROSS $6,406,073 : ATTENDANCE 63,677 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

40. Vienna, Austria : July 2, 2005 : Ernst Happel Stadion : GROSS $4,200,416 : ATTENDANCE 55,645 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

41. Chorzow, Poland : July 5, 2005 : Stadion Slaski : GROSS $3,127,416 : ATTENDANCE 64,711 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

42. Berlin, Germany : July 7, 2005 : Olympiastadion : GROSS $4,725,530 : ATTENDANCE 70,443 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

43, 44. Paris, France : July 9-10, 2005 : Stade De France : GROSS $11,822,645 : ATTENDANCE 160,349 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

45, 46, 47. Amsterdam, The Netherlands : July 13, 15-16, 2005 : Amsterdam Arena : GROSS $13,022,200 : ATTENDANCE 165,516 : SHOWS 3 : SELLOUTS 3

48. Zurich, Switzerland : July 18, 2005 : Stadion Letzigrund : GROSS $3,574,993 : ATTENDANCE 44,260 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

49, 50. Milan, Italy : July 20-21, 2005 : Stadio San Siro : GROSS $7,565,264 : ATTENDANCE 137,427 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

51. Rome, Italy : July 23, 2005 : Stadio Olimpico : GROSS $4,010,779 : ATTENDANCE 67,002 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

52. Oslo, Norway : July 27, 2005 : Valle Hovin : GROSS $3,765,136 : ATTENDANCE 40,000 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

53. Goteborg, Sweden : July 29, 2005 : Ullevi Stadion : GROSS $4,081,864 : ATTENDANCE 58,478 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

54. Copenhagen, Denmark : July 31, 2005 : Parken Stadion : GROSS $3,650,294 : ATTENDANCE 50,000 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

55. Munich, Germany : August 3, 2005 : Olympiastadion : GROSS $5,343,379 : ATTENDANCE 77,435 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

56. Nice, France : August 5, 2005 : Parc des Sports Charles-Ehrmann : GROSS $3,548,702 : ATTENDANCE 51,900 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

57. Barcelona, Spain : August 7, 2005 : Camp Nou : GROSS $5,130,437 : ATTENDANCE 81,269 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

58. San Sebastian, Spain : August 9, 2005 : Estadio de Anoeta : GROSS $2,936,571 : ATTENDANCE 43,720 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

59. Madrid, Spain : August 11, 2005 : Estadio Vicente Calderon : GROSS $3,679,354 : ATTENDANCE 57,040 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

60. Lisbon, Portugal : August 14, 2005 : Estadio Jose Alvalade : GROSS $4,492,762 : ATTENDANCE 55,362 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1





2ND LEG OF VERTIGO WORLD TOUR TOTALS

GROSS: $155,932,214
ATTENDANCE: 1,982,458
AVERAGE GROSS PER SHOW: $4,872,882
AVERAGE ATTENDANCE PER SHOW: 61,952
AVERAGE TICKET PRICE: $78.66
SHOWS: 32
SELLOUTS: 32







3RD LEG OF VERTIGO WORLD TOUR: NORTH AMERICA


61, 62, 63, 64. Toronto, Ontario : Sept. 12, 14, 16-17, 2005 : Air Canada Centre : GROSS $7,624,870 : ATTENDANCE 82,572 : SHOWS 4 : SELLOUTS 4

65, 66. Chicago, Illinois : Sept. 20-21, 2005 : United Center : GROSS $3,795,583 : ATTENDANCE 38,815 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

67. Minneapolis, Minn. : Sept. 23, 2005 : Target Center : GROSS $1,823,883 : ATTENDANCE 19,328 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

68. Milwaukee, Wis. : Sept. 25, 2005 : Bradley Center : GROSS $1,782,895 : ATTENDANCE 19,336 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

69, 70. Boston, Mass. : October 3-4, 2005 : TD Banknorth Garden : GROSS $3,381,429 : ATTENDANCE 34,488 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

71, 72, 73, 74, 75. New York, N.Y. : Oct. 7-8, 10-11, 14, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $9,658,009 : ATTENDANCE 93,275 : SHOWS 5 : SELLOUTS 5

76, 77. Philadelphia, PA : Oct. 16-17, 2005 : Wachovia Center : GROSS $3,773,053 : ATTENDANCE 39,305 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

78, 79. Washington, D.C. : Oct. 19-20, 2005 : MCI Center : GROSS $3,902,569 : ATTENDANCE 38,181 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

80. Pittsburgh, PA : Oct. 22, 2005 : Melon Arena : GROSS $1,636,798 : ATTENDANCE 16,899 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

81, 82. Auburn Hills, Mich. : Oct. 24-25, 2005 : Palace of Auburn Hills : GROSS $3,951,103 : ATTENDANCE 41,379 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

83. Houston, TX : Oct. 28, 2005 : Toyota Center : GROSS $1,652,699 : ATTENDANCE 17,002 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

84. Dallas, TX : Oct. 29, 2005 : American Airlines Center : GROSS $1,689,471 : ATTENDANCE 17,988 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

85, 86. Los Angeles, Calif. : Nov. 1-2, 2005 : Staples Center : GROSS $3,656,978 : ATTENDANCE 34,291 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

87, 88. Las Vegas, Nev. : Nov. 4-5, 2005 : MGM Grand Garden : GROSS $3,864,843 : ATTENDANCE 31,863 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

89, 90. Oakland, Calif. : Nov. 8-9, 2005 : Oakland Arena : GROSS $3,638,620 : ATTENDANCE 36,340 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

91, 92. Miami, Fla. : Nov. 13-14, 2005 : American Airlines Arena : GROSS $3,589,942 : ATTENDANCE 37,354 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

93. Tampa, Fla. : Nov. 16, 2005 : St. Pete Times Forum : GROSS $1,825,243 : ATTENDANCE 19,354 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

94, 95. Atlanta, Ga. : Nov. 18-19, 2005 : Philips Arena : GROSS $3,500,572 : ATTENDANCE 36,334 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

96, 97. New York, N.Y. : Nov. 21-22, 2005 : Madison Square Garden : GROSS $3,859,828 : ATTENDANCE 37,314 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

98. Ottawa : Nov. 25, 2005 : Corel Centre : GROSS $1,486,710 : ATTENDANCE 18,647 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

99, 100. Montreal, Quebec : Nov. 26, 28, 2005 : Bell Centre : GROSS $3,575,491 : ATTENDANCE 43,294 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

101, 102. Boston, Mass. : Dec. 4-5, 2005 : TD Banknorth Garden : GROSS $3,400,861 : ATTENDANCE 34,583 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

103. Hartford, Conn. : Dec. 7, 2005 : Hartford Civic Center : GROSS $1,542,471 : ATTENDANCE 16,165 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

104. Buffalo, N.Y. : Dec. 9, 2005 : HSBC Arena : GROSS $1,711,094 : ATTENDANCE 18,826 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

105. Cleveland, Ohio : Dec. 10, 2005 : Quicken Loans Arena : GROSS $1,791,497 : ATTENDANCE 19,765 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

106. Charlotte, N.C. : Dec. 12, 2005 : Charlotte Bobcats Arena : GROSS $1,672,440 : ATTENDANCE 17,804 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

107. St. Louis, Mo. : Dec. 14, 2005 : Savvis Center : GROSS $1,839,020 : ATTENDANCE 19,923 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

108. Omaha, Nebraska : Dec. 15, 2005 : Qwest Center : GROSS $1,500,834 : ATTENDANCE 16,134 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

109. Salt Lake City, Utah : Dec. 17, 2005 : Delta Center : GROSS $1,709,317 : ATTENDANCE 18,197 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

110. Portland, Ore. : Dec. 19, 2005 : Rose Garden : GROSS $1,670,879 : ATTENDANCE 18,233 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1






3RD LEG OF VERTIGO WORLD TOUR TOTALS TO DATE

GROSS: $90,509,002
ATTENDANCE: 932,989
AVERAGE GROSS PER SHOW: $1,810,180
AVERAGE ATTENDANCE PER SHOW: 18,659
AVERAGE TICKET PRICE: $97.01
SHOWS: 50
SELLOUTS: 50






4TH LEG OF VERTIGO WORLD TOUR: MEXICO, BRAZIL, ARGENTINA, CHILE


111. Monterrey, Mexico : February 12, 2006 : Estadio Tecnologico : GROSS $4,504,026 : ATTENDANCE 50,347 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

112, 113. Mexico City, Mexico : February 15-16, 2006 : Estadio Azteca : GROSS $10,257,284 : ATTENDANCE 141,278 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

114, 115. Sao Paulo, Brazil : February 20-21, 2006 : Estadio do Morumbi : GROSS $11,682,557 : ATTENDANCE 149,700 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2

116. Santiago, Chile : February 26, 2006 : Estadio Nacional : GROSS $5,000,589 : ATTENDANCE 77,345 : SHOWS 1 : SELLOUTS 1

117, 118. Buenos Aires, Argentina : March 1-2, 2006 : River Plate Stadium : GROSS $6,966,821 : ATTENDANCE 150,424 : SHOWS 2 : SELLOUTS 2





4TH LEG OF VERTIGO WORLD TOUR TOTALS TO DATE

GROSS: $38,411,277
ATTENDANCE: 569,094
AVERAGE GROSS PER SHOW: $4,801,409
AVERAGE ATTENDANCE PER SHOW: 71,137
AVERAGE TICKET PRICE: $67.50
SHOWS: 8
SELLOUTS: 8










Combined 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th LEG VERTIGO TOUR TOTALS TO DATE

GROSS: $333,206,884
ATTENDANCE: 3,983,650
SHOWS: 118
SELLOUTS: 118

 

[DubbalinGirl]

Still looking for NET numbers, and nope, still not seeing any.

Still looking for cost numbers, and nope, still not seeing any.

But I didn't think I would. Your extrapolation with nothing but gross data and estimates is weak, at best.

Funny though, you latch on to Paul McGuinness' $10 a head from the article I posted, yet you won't subscribe to the 6 months to break even factoid from the self-same article.

I give up.

 

[STING2]

Still looking for NET numbers, and nope, still not seeing any.

Still looking for cost numbers, and nope, still not seeing any.

But I didn't think I would. Your extrapolation with nothing but gross data and estimates is weak, at best.

Funny though, you latch on to Paul McGuinness' $10 a head from the article I posted, yet you won't subscribe to the 6 months to break even factoid from the self-same article.

I give up.

Do you have any numbers beside one line in a magazine that is not actually a qoute of McGuinness? Still have yet to see any.

I only latch on to the article stating they make 10 dollars a head for Merchandising because that is your central point in stating that they make more money from that than from ticket sales.



Look up Carter Allens Book "Outside Is America" and you will see cost numbers for ZOO TV Stadium leg and POPMART Stadium leg on a daily basis. The Irish Times newspaper reported that the cost of the European Leg of the tour was 32 million Euros as I stated above. Did your read what I actually posted? Total Gross for the European Leg of the Vertigo Tour was 127 Million Euros from ticket sales. That makes for a 95 million Euro profit on the European leg of the Vertigo Tour.

Why give up, the only facts and figures you have offered is a single line from a magazine article. You have yet to show any evidence that the Vertigo Tour cost nearly 3 times the amount of the Elevation tour which is what it would have to cost in order for profits from ticket sales to be smaller than the profit from merchandise.

I've shown you the GROSS amount of money made from this tour as well as other tours in addition to attendance. I have also shown you where you can look up figures for the daily cost of ZOO TV and POPMART. In addition, the Irish Times reported at the time of the U2 concerts in Dublin the cost of the tour in Europe.

To all of this, you have one unqouted line in a single magazine.

 

[indra]

I have always read - no matter who the band is, or what the venue is, that the real profit behind any tour is in the merchandise.

I believe this.

I agree.

But if STING2's figures are correct, you all got fucked really bad.

 

[ntalwar]

^
I'm still skeptical on that one. That was probably more accurate when tickets used to cost around the same as t-shirts (e.g. $20). With ticket prices of $160 (more in SA), it is less relevant. I also don't remember the merchandise stands being overwhelmed with fans, or seeing the crowds teeming with their new Vertigo t-shirts.

 

[STING2]

Back in the 1980s, it was indeed true that much of a bands profits from a tour came from merchandise. But this is when ticket were similar to the price of buying a rock concert T-Shirt.

The ticket price by by the biggest artist from 1980 through 1989 was between $15 dollars and $20 dollars. There were a couple of tours that charged more, but this was rare. Essentially, for the biggest artist, the ticket price was about double of the price of the album. The T-shirts although lower than the ticket price were not far behind and sometimes equaled the ticket price.

1994 was the year that turned the concert industry around in terms of prices, at least for the biggest artist. When U2 went out on the ZOO TV tour and charged $30 dollars a ticket in 1992, many noted this was the highest ticket price ever charged for a major stadium tour, with the exception of the Jackson Victory Tour in 1984.

But two years later in 1994, Pink Floyd came out with a tiered system of multiple ticket prices. While seats far away from the stage were as little as $22.50. Thousands of seats were as much $80 dollars a ticket.

The Eagles who reunited in 1994 after 14 years apart were the most notorious for charging $110 dollar a ticket for the best seats. They actually followed Pink Floyd's lead on this, but got all the media coverage because of the block of tickets that were sold at $110 dollars.

Also in 1994, Billy Joel/Elton John did their first co-headlining tour. Such a multi-bill line up back in the 1970s and 1980s ALWAYS meant seeing two artist for the price of one, usually at prices of no more than $15 to $20 dollars. But, following the lead of the Eagles and Floyd, the tour sold thousands of tickets $75 dollars a pop.

Not to be outdone in 1994, and the last big artist of the year to announce a major tour, the Rolling Stones jumped on the bandwagon as well. They did not go with a tiered pricing system except for a small section of tickets at the very back. More than 95% of the tickets sold for each show were $50 dollars. Many would see that as a bargain unless you read the details. It was $50 dollars for front row as well as some of the worst nosebleed seats in the stadium. This was nearly double the price anyone had ever charged for a nosebleed seat at the back of a football stadium. The Stones ended up with the biggest GROSS of the year of all the major tours.

Despite similar expenses in terms of the scale of playing Stadiums and associated cost, the Greatful Dead kept their tickets at $30 dollars in 1994, although its likely they could have jumped on this bandwagon as well.


1994 was the year that ticket prices exploded in proportion to touring cost as well as merchandise sales for big artist. What these artist and others in the industry had discovered, was that scalpers were making massive sums of money, collectively more than the artist were making from reselling tickets to soldout shows.

In San Diego in 1987 on the Joshua Tree tour, tickets for the to soldout shows a the arena were $16.50. Outside the venue the day of the shows, scalpers were selling U2 tickets for an average of $100 dollars. A few scalpers who sold a combined 1,000 tickets, could potentially make as much money as U2 did from the sell of 13,000 tickets at $16.50, after cost for both groups was deducted.

The industry caught onto this and in 1994, the floodgates for massive increases in ticket prices flew open. Touring had not become dramatically more expensive in 1994. U2's ZOO TV tour was a more expensive undertaking than any of the 1994 big stadium tours, but only charged half of the ticket price that these tours were charging just two years later. With no dramatic difference in cost, the extra money was pure profit for the artist!

In U2's situation in 1997, they also upped ticket prices to above $50 dollars. The U2 POPMART tour was different though for the band in that it was run by Michael Cohl who took over the cost and any risk for the tour. The band were payed $100 million dollars by Michael Cohl. From a financial standpoint, it then became Michael Cohl's tour. He would have to make enough of money from the tour to pay for the cost of it, as well as make back the $100 million dollars he had payed U2, before he could see a profit himself. Word is, he did make a profit, although not nearly what he had orginally projected he could have made had there been more sellouts. Not a big problem for Mr. Cohl who went on to promote the Rolling Stones Bridges To Babylon tour later that year with a similar financial set up. Michael Cohl was also the promoter for the Rolling Stones Voodoo Lounge tour and Pink Floyd's Division Bell Tour back in 1994. Artist have Michael Cohl to thank for the massive increase in profits a big name artist can make from touring it seems.


While its true that back in the 1970s and 1980s, artist made just as much if not more money from merchadise than ticket sales, even for big name acts, starting in 1994, all of that was turned around with the massive increase in ticket prices for the biggest artist. Stage equipment, fuel, and labor cost did not rise 100% from 1992 to 1994. The extra money made from ticket sales was profit for the artist that went to them.

Another way of looking at it is that in 2006, a $30 dollar ticket from U2's expensive ZOO TV tour in 1992, adjusted for inflation would be $40 dollars. The average ticket price on the VERTIGO tour was nearly $100 dollars and all of it in North America was in Arena's with cost that on average are 1/3 that for a stadium show.

The biggest names in the concert industry in 2006 that are charging an average of $100 dollars a ticket or more, are making the vast bulk of their money from the sell of tickets. EVERY concert goer has to buy a ticket. Only a fraction of concert goers by any merchandise at all and those that do, make purchases that add up to only a fraction of the cost of the ticket they purchased.

The Rolling Stones with a very similar touring cost to U2 are charging an average of $133 dollars a ticket.

Many artist play the amphitheater circuit in the United States during the summer. They do this because the cost is rather cheap. There is no need to build a stage, most of what you need is already provided by the amphitheater. An examination of the artist that play these venues finds vast differences in ticket prices. There are some artist who play these venues at prices as low as $30 dollars to perhaps 50% capacity or less and they are breaking even or in fact making a small profit. You then have an artist like Jimmy Buffet come into the same venue who sells 100% of the tickets at an average price of around $80 dollars or more. Because its an amphitheater, there is not a dramatic difference in the cost of playing the same venue for both artist. While the less popular artist may have only broken even at $30 dollars and 50% of tickets sold, Jimmy Buffet has made an enormous profit from just ticket sales with $80 dollar tickets and 100% of the venues capacity sold.

 

[U2Smilzz]

Hey guys, thanks for the really informative posts. Makes for very interesting reading!

 

[CMIS]

I really don't think the main source of revenue can be merchandise. That is not what a smart business organisation would do. Every person that goes through the turnstiles buys a ticket. Not everyone who goes through the turnstiles buys the merchandise. It would be a huge risk to look to merchandise to pay the bills. Tickets are a sureshot. I do agree though that merchandise is a huge moneyspinning venture.

Additionally you also have to think about the overhead cost of selling the merchandise. Its easy to say that t shirts cost a dollar to make, but what about the hundreds of vendors selling them, I assume they get paid by the hour in a concert that lasts 6-7 hours.

Just my two pence (I wish tickets cost that much )

 

[CMIS]

oops, sorry, I see Sting 2 already made the point I was trying to make.