At what point does scalping become justified?

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mcranston

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With the Vertigo Tour ticket sales being a complete fiasco, the majority of genuine fans have been left with terrible or no tickets at all. Well I'm not here to take a side on who is at fault for this, but rather acknowledge the harsh reality:

If you don't have tickets now, you are going to be buying them for a couple hundred bucks each from a scalper.

So here's the question ... with scalping on eBay being ubiqituous, with real U2 fans scalping tickets to fellow U2 fans, is this now simply the norm? If I am looking for tickets to NJ/NYC, yet I stumble upon two GAs to San Diego, is it not fair for me to scalp those GAs and put them to my NYC fund?

Everybody's scalping now-a-days, and each additional scalper catalyzes a whole new group of 'fan scalpers' who want tickets to their show of choice and can't afford it any other way but to sell whatever they do have for an inflated price. So, is it okay now for Fan A to take initiative and scalp tickets to a different show to be able to get tickets to the show he/she was screwed over for?

Ugh, scalpng's a dirty game, a dirty dirty game.

Mike
 
i dont know whether its right but its understandable.
if you dont have the tickets you want and have to pay inflated prices for them then its understandable to sell what you do have at a price to pay for the ones you do want but can't get reasonably.

its a horrible situation but one that a lot of fans fel forced into i think
 
I think there's a lot of gray area there.

If you are charging extra to cover the funds of something else, that's cool. I'm sure you could even explain that to the person you're selling the tickets to.

Let's say you got these GA tickets for $110 with the service charge. You want a $220 to cover your expenses or whatever. That's a lot better than asking $500, which you certainly could get if you put them on ebay.

I don't think $100 for a GA ticket is too much to ask. It's really what you feel comfortable with, and what you would be okay with if YOU had to buy them from someone who wasn't a greedy asshole.


laz
 
It's all about supply and demand -- is it wrong for brokers and scalpers to purchase tickets they never intended to use? That is a tough question -- they are simply working a market, one where willing participants pay more than face value for a ticket. It's a service industry, without the demand, there is no market.

Many of us have, and will, resort to using a scalper or broker -- we either did not get lucky enough on the TM option, or did not have the time to pursue it as diligently as we want. So, we choose to pay more than face value to get a ticket. That's life -- similar situations apply all over the place. The most talented and qualified person doesn't get the position because someone less talented had a connection.

In the end, my hunch is that most people who really want to go, and will extend the effort, will find a way to get it done, and probably won't get jobbed too hard doing it. Work the message boards, work ebay, work with a broker -- it's all negotiable.

I'm personally pretty cautious on where I apply the term greedy arsehole -- that applies to a lot of people that many in society view as heros and or successful business people.
 
Honestly, if you are out of the game, then you are in a whole new game where there is no such a thing as "right" and "wrong." I feel really terrible for all the long time fans out there without a concert ticket to show. Do your best to find tickets and to stay true as a fan. That is the bottom line.

Scalping a ticket to get a U2 show you want? Well, didn't U2 put you in that position?
 
I dunno, I bought from a broker and don't feel guilty. I was in Africa during the presale and probably never would've been if I wasn't so inspired by Bono. I tried both online and IN LINE at Ticketmaster to get tickets and got diddly shit.

I did my research and found a reputable broker service that offered a somewhat decent price. I wanted tickets and I wanted them then so it was worth it to me. Even paying a higher price, it seems like I've had a less stressful time than many who've had their tickets cancelled or whatever.

What I don't like is when I look on eBay and see "IM NOT A SCALPER just a fan with extra tickets" and then they're going for $500. That's bullshit. At least a broker's not pretending to be nice and sympathetic.

And like others said, it's supply and demand. Even if Ticketmaster functioned flawlessly, there'd still be fans without tickets.
 
You are all justifying action that I believe is perfectly appropriate if you find your self in a less than desireable ticket situation. Those that are choosing to not accept that there is a economic market to U2 tickets are just being either ignorant or stubborn.

For those that may chastise you, let them deal with their own situation. No one is encouraging you to create a system where you are subsidizing your income. You need to do what meets your needs.

I just personally sold two opening night seats on Ebay. I set the reserve at the face value + shipping + ebay costs. I would have sold them for whatever the market would bear as I have bought other tickets through means other than TM. Fortunately this is not an ethical burden I had to bear because the tickets went for 10 dollars over my reserve. I did the guy a favor and threw in free shipping.

I don't agree that U2 put you in this situation. That is just short sighted I think. I have 10 tickets in my possesion, through as many different means as possible. It was a challenge, but I made it happen. In all reality, tickets to me seemed easier to get than last tour. Even without propaganda.

As Napolean says "Listen to your heart, that's what I do."
 
Roland of Gilead said:
Scalping a ticket to get a U2 show you want? Well, didn't U2 put you in that position?
Click to expand...

How does that work? Just because U2 are playing shows, they are suddenly forcing people to go to scalpers?
 
I'm sorry, but I don't think it's ever really "justified" to scalp tickets. I'm not going to pass judgment on everyone who bought a ticket from a broker. I think that's understandable, especially when tickets are in high demand and your only other choice may be to not go to the concert.

But I still think selling at inflated prices is wrong. The bottom line is your making money off of something you didn't really earn. And I don't think it's justified by the fact that you might have to pay more for other tickets or for expenses. If you can't afford the other tickets, don't buy them. The fact that you really want them doesn't justify ripping off another fan, in my opinion. And I'm not won over by the "supply and demand" argument. There are a lot of things that an unencumbered market would do that we don't want to happen. That's why we have antitrust and labor laws. I recognize that there's an economic market for U2 tickets and that in that market, U2 tickets are really expensive. I just don't think that (morally) justifies anyone making money off of an event that they had no part in creating.
 
I agree, HHSC.

I've purchased tickets to other shows from scalpers becuase I wanted the good seats. However, I think scalping in general is bullshit, especially fan-to-fan. I've bought face value tickets from fans who were able to get better seats and then had to sell their extras, but to jack up the price of the extra seats to pay for your new, more expensive seats is bullshit.

To answer the question posed in the thread's title: Scalping a ticket or two would be justified if your child needs surgery and selling your tickets for a higher price would help pay for it. Other than that, you're just a damn gouger. :down:
 
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True, the question was regarding the morality of it. I agree that I would not willingly rip off another fan for profit.

HOWEVER: when one purchases a ticket on ebay, they are consciously making a bid based on their own financial situation. It is their choice whether or not to buy that ticket at a price which the market will bear. You aren't being ripped off if you willingly and will full disclosure buy a ticket from ebay or a scalper.

I don't necessarily see paying over face value as being ripped off. I know that these tickets are next to impossible to get through onsales. I understand that if I decide to go to a concert, I may have to pay more than face value.

To echo the sentiments of the original post, scalping sucks: but sometimes there is no way around it. If it really bothers you that much, don't participate. I think most fans that are bemoaning having to pay a penny over face are not being realistic. All of the fans and friends I see U2 shows with (most see dozens and dozens of shows each tour) understand the system and do as good a job as they can for themselves and their friends.
 
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I think that if you buy or sell tickets at these extraordinarily inflated prices not only you are cheating yourself out of a ticket at face (your choice) but you contributing to the continued cheating of others out of a chance of tickets at face. The scalpers are having a windfall. There is nothing to discourage them from doing this next time around. What can you do? Refuse to buy tickets at these prices. We are not talking about pennies over face. In some cases, for GA's (lowest price tier) we are talking about a 300% markup. Here's my advice. If you're an amateur and you're trying to play with the big boys in the ticket resale market, you are going to get burned. You are going to get cheated, swindled and gouged on price. At least eventually you will, and you deserve it.
 
I scalped my fanclub seats for $200 over face value to help me purchase the GAs I really wanted from another scalper. I don't see anything wrong with that. I didn't force these people to buy from me, and I wasn't forced to buy from the scalper. I didn't profit from anything in the long run, in fact I still ended up paying more than face value for the GAs.

Unfortunately, that is the way the game is played.
 
esselte said:
I think that if you buy or sell tickets at these extraordinarily inflated prices not only you are cheating yourself out of a ticket at face (your choice) but you contributing to the continued cheating of others out of a chance of tickets at face. The scalpers are having a windfall. There is nothing to discourage them from doing this next time around. What can you do? Refuse to buy tickets at these prices.
Click to expand...

Lemme guess, you got all the tickets you wanted in the pre-sale :rolleyes:
 
I believe in capitalism and I think it works great! You are probably ready to yell at me and claim that I agree with scalping. I do not. Capitalism is about investment. It's perfectly fine when a coffee company buys beans in mass quantity from Columbia and sells them to us at an increased price at the supermarket. They invested money to provide us with a product. That is capitalism. Scalpers, however, do not invest money. They simply buy a product because they know someone wants it very badly and sells it to them at a higher price. If scalpers acutally put up money to bring U2 to a venue and covered the costs of producing the show, then they would have a right to increase prices as they saw fit. They do not do that. Tickets are not securities, stocks, or bonds. They are someones dream to see their favorite band. Thank You.
 
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Last go around when as a fanclub member, I managed to get 3 sets of GA's to the 3 shows I wanted to go to. This go around I got aweful seats at face 4 times the ammount of the GA's to ONE show. Sorry, real die hard, old school (fill in whatever other adjative you want) fans want to go to more than one U2 show when they only tour once every four or 5 years. The dillema has been created in part by the ticket distribution system. Who is to blame is debateable, but it is screwed up and so easy to fix. Name on ticket w/ photo id to get in, will call all tickets, actually prioritize fan club members by duration and distribute all tickets to fan club first (general sales through ticketmaster give an affair advantage to brokers who know the ins and outs of TicketBastard).
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


Lemme guess, you got all the tickets you wanted in the pre-sale :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I got one pair for Philly behind the stage (222A) after failing to get either NJ or NYC in the presale. Philly is a 90 mile drive for me, but I'd rather do that than buy scalped. I got a pair by phone for MSG during the regular sale behind the stage, sec 320. I could easily scalp these and pay for the NJ shows. But, I won't.
 
Hmm, some interesting points have been made. I think it is tough to argue whether or not it is 'morally' right to scalp tickets fan-to-fan. My personal opinion, it is. I am currently 100% ticketless despite countless efforts, while I did have tickets lined up in the presale, the very fragile ticketmaster system screwed up and I lost my tickets. While I generally whole-heartedly support the 'if you really want to go, you'll find a way' sentiment, in this case I think it was pure luck for who scored tickets and who didn't.

I would just have a problem if I had an extra pair of GAs of selling them for so much over face. I don't buy the argument that scalping is simply another ticket market, I think it's exploitation. As unrealistic as this may be, I hope one day that cetain measures can be taken to ensure the real fans get the tickets, and leave the (fan) scalpers high and dry.

Mike
 
In no way do I support scalping. It sucks. It's unfair, and I wish it was completely and totally illegal, but obviously in times like right now if you are caught in a situation where you want to go to a show no matter what, then you have to do what you have to do within your financial means. Nobody here wants to pay a scalper anything, but nobody here also wants to miss their favorite band just because the concert sold out before they could get tickets. It's never a great situation, but the bottom line is what are you willing to do to see the show you want to. If you can make up for it financially by selling off tickets that you have but don't need to get the ones you need then why not. Unfortunatley that is how the market is working right now. Sad as it is.:(
 
Doctors and hospitals sell treatments for life-threatening diseases at prices that are sure to bankrupt their patients. When payment is not made, they send collections agencies around to collect. Drug companies charge thousands of times more than what it costs to make a drug, and profit BILLIONS of dollars per year - on the heads of people who are suffering with disesae. Africans with malaria die because they can't afford overpriced drugs. This happens every day and we let it continue.

The cost of a college education far exceeds the cost of providing one to a student - this deprives many young people of valuable opportunities to educate themselves to a higher level.

Fact is, concert tickets are like everything else that is bought and sold - the seller tries to sell at a price that's higher than what he/she bought/made it for. The only difference is that concert tickets are nearly meaningless in the grand scale of things that we consider it OK to sell at prices that exclude poor and middle-income people.

So, morally, I see no problem with ticket "scalping" at any level.
 
We have to start some place. Drug companies and big corporations are a hard battle to fight but it can be done, and selling tickets over face to other fans should NOT be done.

It is very tempting, I did it once on Elevation on Ebay, and at that time was very shocked at the price they went up to. This time I have ended up with tickets that I can not use and I have notified fans on this board who did not get tickets in the pre or general sales and offered to sell the tickets at face plus TM fees.
Even though I could sell them on Ebay and pay for all of my air fare to the concerts that I am going to. I do NOT want that kind of KARMA following me!!!

People can change the world by changing the world in them first. :hmm: Didn't some lead singer of the world's biggest and best band teach us that a very long time ago.
 
Actually that wasn't Bono's idea. Gandhi said if you want to change the world, you need to BE the change you wish to see.

And I don't doubt that others have said similar things before Gandhi.
 
Yes, we live in a capitalist society. But, even in such a society we need regulations to prevent corruption. That's what anti-scalping laws are all about. Anti-scalping is not about denying the entrepeneur from making a profit by recognizing the dynamics of supply and demand. *Competetive* (free) markets balance supply and demand. In a free market, you buy from the scalper offering the best price for the best ticket and the market is regulated so the consumer doesn't get ripped off. Look at these online brokerage sites. They all have the same basic inventory of tickets. Strange, huh? The ticket brokers that you are buying from, monopolize the supply of tickets. They are the only source of tickets. There's no competition. They control the best seats and manipulate prices. They price-fix and use inside trading to buy and sell on a secondary market that the general public has no access to. These are contrary to free market capitalism. The average Ebayer scalper is making huge capital gains on the resale and paying no taxes. There are regulations in any other type of brokerage e.g., futures and securities markets. Why not in the ticket broker/resale industry?
 
I think it depends on who you're buying from. My tickets really weren't that expensive. I most likely could've bought for face value from another fan with extras, but I chose to go with the broker b/c after all, their business is selling tickets and I felt safer than I would've buying from a fellow fan off eBay or a private arrangement. I'm not saying someone would've ripped me off, but if something happened to the tickets en route, or payment had to be sent by mail and was misplaced, then we're both screwed. With the broker, I paid securely with a credit card so if there was no follow through, there would've been some way to get that money back. After all the hassles with TM I've been reading about, I'm almost GLAD I was able to just pick my tickets, pay for them, and get them in the mail the next week. And as for what you're saying about supply and demand 1) There will NEVER be enough tickets, even without scalpers, to meet the demand and 2) I would've paid a LOT higher than I had to for the tickets I got if that's what it came down to :shrug:

What I found rediculous was people selling their extras at face + the U2.com membership fee. :rolleyes:
 
Trading can only get you so far. I've asked a bunch of people if they wanted to trade my SD1 Terrace seats for some similar So Cal seats. Went nowhere after a few weeks. Same story with my extra GA for PHX1 that I wanted to trade for a PHX2 GA. I'm sure I could sell these at face rather quickly, but then I'd be forced to TRY and find the same tickets that I want at face. Most likely won't happen. My SD1 are on eBay as we speak. I would be totally happy to get what I paid for them back. If they go for more, great. If not, I lose. If I can't trade my PHX1 GA for a PHX2 GA in the next few days, I'm buying one on eBay and selling my extra on eBay. Sorry if you don't like that, but it is MY way of trading to get what tickets I want.

Prices are falling quickly as we all predicted. Sure MSG/Boston/SoCal shows are still comanding a premium, but you can get seats for most of the other cities for not much over face, or in some cases (Denver) less than face.

We live in a free enterprise system which I wouldn't change for anything. Could the fan club be better? You bet. But I wouldn't get rid of the folks that DO get tickets legally, and want to try and make a buck on them. That's what free enterprise is.

-Chris
 
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