Week 7

[fedeu2]

Coldplay only have 4 albums, demand for their shows is a lot lower than U2's because people go to see U2 for the last 12 albums of their career. I mean we all know the Rolling Stones sell out stadiums but they're hardly popular

Album sales aren't down that much due to the recession, I mean we all know there's a recession on but album sales aren't too bad, they're down about 10% which is standard for each year since 2004

I think your argument is flawed. Back in the UF days (fourth U2 album as well) U2 were able to sold more concert tickets than Coldplay now. Or did you mean Coldplay do not have enough good material to put great concerts? That, I would agree.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

I think your argument is flawed. Back in the UF days (fourth U2 album as well) U2 were able to sold more concert tickets than Coldplay now. Or did you mean Coldplay do not have enough good material to put great concerts? That, I would agree.

Spot on imo, if your one of the "in bands" then you should be able to sell out shows, coldpay did it on their last tour (when they played reebok stadium), but yet cant on this tour while they are supposed to be "bigger"?, and the argument that the recession isnt having an impact is also a bit iffy imo, i mean not one band/artist in the 7 weeks since U2's new album has been out have now matched first week sales.

 

[doctorwho]

Whats gone wrong since the last album do you think? decline in sales cant be blamed to this extent. i think its mainly due to the first single not being a 'hit'. i really did think downloads would have made the first single #1 regardless of what the song was like considering the sucess vertigo had with downloads.

If you take a look at an earlier post in this thread, you'll see that "Pop" rose on the U.K. charts after falling. This was due to "Staring at the Sun", which was a hit. "Staring..." also helped "Pop" remain between positions #12-15 for about 5 weeks in the U.S.

In contrast, NLOTH hasn't really produce a hit. GOYB was a mild hit. So the album is really relying on U2's name alone. That is fairly impressive. If "Magnificent" finally works its way up the charts to become a hit, expect NLOTH to rise. Then it will get another boost with the tour. So I'm not worried.

All of that said, illegal downloads do play a role. So while the album will rise back up the charts, do not expect sales of the past.

 

[doctorwho]

I bought a vertigo concert ticket because i wanted to see vertigo played live thats for sure. I would have been more than happy if they had played HTDAAB from start to finish...twice. and nothing else.
i'm nowhere near as interested to see the NLOTH stuff live though, not as good an album IMO.

Hmmm... dramatically different tastes.

I agree that HTDAAB is great - one of my favorite U2 albums (except for two songs that should have been left off). However, NLOTH easily dominates that.

But I'll give it time, maybe I'll disagree in 4 years.

Either way, I do not want to see U2 perform NLOTH or HTDAAB or JT or AB or any other album twice and leave.

 

[phommel]

Over half the announced shows are SOLD OUT, and many of the remaining tickets on tours are "singles" only in the nosebleeds.

I agree that this is probably the best marker for popularity of an artist during these times where CD sales are low. But that's why I think that it is also not the recession that causes the decline in album sales. If people can pay $30-250 for a concert hey also should be able to pay $10-20 for an album. It may just be the downloading as you say

One huge factor in NLOTH's worldwide sales success is that sales outside of the traditional U2 mass markets, the U.S. and the UK, have apparently grown relative to the % of sales this album. The album has faded into the 25-35 range on the UK charts at the moment...yet it just was published today that NLOTH is Number 1 in Europe for the SIXTH straight week! In looking at the International Charts on Billboard, along with the "Charts all over the World" website, NLOTH is presently in the Top 10 in sales in some 20+ countries...and in the Top 5 in nearly half of those countries...with several places still showing the album at #1.
It's quite possible that U2 have not gained many fans in the UK and the US...or that those two countries have the largest populations with access to "free" copies of NLOTH.

I believe more in your first explanation. Access to "free" copies of albums is very high in a lot of countries. I come a lot in Spain and people are downloading there more than anywhere I have the feelng. Yet, the album is still holding the no.1 spot in Spain. It seems that U2 is getting more popular in the less traditional U2 markets. And, less popular in the traditional mass markets US and UK as you stated. In comparison, in another traditional U2 market, the Netherlands the album is still holding strong. already in the TOP3 for 6 weeks here.That difference is remarkable! IMO illegal downloading cannot explain this. Maybe this effect is even more strong if you could correct for illegal downloading. Assuming that U2 has a relative large faithful fanbase of people that are 20,30,40+ and assuming that illegal downloading happens more among young fans, U2s album may have seen an even larger drop in the charts. But this is just speculation of course.

Face it, if it's that freakin easy, it's happening at an even worse rate than the "experts" think (over 1M illegal downloads of NLOTH estimated so far).

/but that's pretty huge. Where did you hear that number?

 

[Irishteen]

Illegal downloading can explain low sales not drops in the charts, and 1 million illegal downloads is hardly huge in this day and age, it's probably an underestimate if anything

 

[phommel]

Illegal downloading can explain low sales not drops in the charts

I agree, that may mean that U2 is just less popular in the UK compared to lots of other countries...

 

[Irishteen]

Ireland: Down to 7, U2:18 singles is down to 33

 

[bathiu]

Poland:

NLOTH:
1-1-1-1-2-3-3

...and just to compare...
HTDAAB:
1-1-3-5-6-4-8-11-8-12-18-15........

 

[zoopop]

How many units has NLOTH sold worldwide?

 

[fedeu2]

How many units has NLOTH sold worldwide?

Over 2.5 million

 

[Irishteen]

Over 2.5 million

It's actually just over 2.4

 

[fedeu2]

It's actually just over 2.4

Did you apply extrapolation to Mediatraffic numbers? Actual sales are between 5-7.5% in excess of their figures. Taking this into account actual sales should be over 2.5 million by now.

 

[doctorwho]

I agree that this is probably the best marker for popularity of an artist during these times where CD sales are low. But that's why I think that it is also not the recession that causes the decline in album sales. If people can pay $30-250 for a concert hey also should be able to pay $10-20 for an album. It may just be the downloading as you say

Downloading definitely has a negative effect.

However, buying a CD is still a luxury - like a magazine or book. It's not needed. It's rare when an album crosses over from a luxury item to a basic household item. By that, I mean a situation where just about everyone that buys music is buying the album (like with Michael Jackson's "Thriller"). U2 enjoyed this with JT and AB. But again, with illegal downloads, albums may still be "must haves", but people just steal it.

Concerts, however, are an event. This is a night out - something special. And this is why even people strapped for cash will pull funds to have that special night. If U2 toured yearly or semi-annually, there's no way they'd keep selling out stadiums. But U2 hits a city once every 5 years or so lately, and in some areas, a lot more. So this becomes a big deal - one of the biggest bands in the world, with a very strong catalog and tons of award winning and popular releases, who is also known for their live shows is coming to town! People will find $$ for that. In contrast, a CD can be heard on the radio or a friend's home or on a computer. So sales for that will drop.

Years ago, artists would actually LOSE money touring. It was all about music sales. That has shifted - CD sales are abysmal, so now it's about touring. And most artists (maybe all) make the bulk of their money touring. This includes small local acts as well as juggernauts like U2. Keith Richards would get upset with Jagger for delaying an album release as this would delay a tour (and potential income).

All of that said, U2 are selling out in big markets in the U.S. In this current economy, I do predict some difficulty in smaller cities. Hopefully this won't turn into another "Pop"/PopMart scenario.

 

[zoopop]

It's actually just over 2.4

In this digital age with just over 1 month release time that's not too bad.

Even hip hop albums don't sale like they use too. This is from Wiki "As of March 17th, Tha Carter III has sold 3,070,600 copies domestically". The biggest Rap/Pop star of 2008 only sold 3 million.

If U2 reaches over 5 million after the tour I find NLOTH a big success.

 

[digitize]

Another factor is that, not only are sales of albums down, usage (from both sales and theft) and creation of albums are down. The world is rapidly falling to a pre-Sgt. Pepper's time, and it's really scary... singles are much more popular than albums. Coldplay, love them or hate them, are one of the few popular bands that have actually had success with an album, not just singles, so they deserve kudos for that. But NLOTH is still succeeding decently well in this environment, too, as a stronger album than Coldplay could ever dream of creating (especially in thematic consistency and complexity, et cetera), in an era of singles. The U2 name helps with that more than GOYB did - if casual music fans who aren't necessarily fans of pop muzik (busy adults?) are going to buy a limited number of albums in a year, it's pretty obvious that NLOTH will be towards the top of their list, mainly based on U2's reputation alone.

And concert sales are really encouraging now... again, U2 are lucky enough to enjoy the reputation of a 'must-see live act', and I honestly think that the sheer excitement of the fact that they are playing in stadiums might be helping the stadiums sell.

 

[Irishteen]

Another factor is that, not only are sales of albums down, usage (from both sales and theft) and creation of albums are down. The world is rapidly falling to a pre-Sgt. Pepper's time, and it's really scary... singles are much more popular than albums. Coldplay, love them or hate them, are one of the few popular bands that have actually had success with an album, not just singles, so they deserve kudos for that. But NLOTH is still succeeding decently well in this environment, too, as a stronger album than Coldplay could ever dream of creating (especially in thematic consistency and complexity, et cetera), in an era of singles. The U2 name helps with that more than GOYB did - if casual music fans who aren't necessarily fans of pop muzik (busy adults?) are going to buy a limited number of albums in a year, it's pretty obvious that NLOTH will be towards the top of their list, mainly based on U2's reputation alone.

I really don't think this is true, I mean if you look at torrent sites what is always the most downloaded thing is albums. I mean sure single sales have increased but this is mostly in pop music and the reason this happened is simply down to the fact that for a decade pop music became singles + filler on an album and people no longer felt it was worth it to buy an album

 

[Irishteen]

Down to 34 in the UK, only four new entries this week. Awful...

 

[Native_Son]

what has gone wrong in the UK

and eminems new single (which is particularly bad) is #8 in the chart. Magnificent isnt getting any downloads whatsoever. dont people listen to good music anymore? i think the charts speak for themselves

 

[vaz02]

There has been no promo though and no damn video

 

[Native_Son]

unbelieveable no video. i dont think we can blame promo. HTDAAB singles had no promotion apart from the pre-release. and Mag is playlisted on radio1 and radio2, so clearly it is getting airplay. nobody downloading though. and looking at album chart position, Mag airplay has not helped on bit!

 

[monai2]

top airplay uk
1 Beyonce Halo
2 3 A R Rahman & Pussycat Dolls feat. Nicole Scherzinger Jai Ho! (You Are My Destiny)
3 2 Lady Gaga Poker Face
4 4 James Morrison Please Don't Stop The Rain
5 7 Pink Please Don't Leave Me
6 6 Lily Allen The Fear
7 11 Calvin Harris I'm Not Alone
8 17 Enrique Iglesias feat. Ciara Takin' Back My Love
9 24 Lily Allen Not Fair
10 13 Taylor Swift Love Story
11 5 Kelly Clarkson My Life Would Suck Without You
12 8 Noisettes Don't Upset The Rhythm
13 10 T.I. feat Justin Timberlake Dead & Gone
14 9 Flo-rida Right Round
15 12 Girls Aloud Untouchable
16 30 Ciara feat. Justin Timberlake Love Sex Magic
17 14 Take That Up All Night
18 28 Kings of Leon Use Somebody
19 18 James Morrison feat. Nelly Furtado Broken Strings
20 41 Take That Greatest Day
21 22 Lady Gaga Just Dance
22 52 Bat For Lashes Daniel
23 23 Tinchy Stryder feat. N-Dubz Number 1
24 29 Akon Beautiful
25 25 Jason Mraz Make It Mine
26 19 Franz Ferdinand No You Girls
27 49 Tony Christie Every Word She Said
28 20 Alesha Dixon Breathe Slow
29 15 Metro Station Shake It
30 21 La Roux In For The Kill
31 16 Steve Angello & Laidback Luke feat. Robin S Show Me Love
32 102 Alesha Dixon Let's Get Excited
33 46 Dizzee Rascal Bonkers
34 47 Girls Aloud The Promise
35 38 Jennifer Hudson Spotlight
36 59 U2 Magnificent
37 43 The Enemy No Time For Tears
38 44 The Killers Human
39 40 Beyonce Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It)
40 60 Coldplay Viva La Vida

 

[Irishteen]

Magnificent is finally getting airplay, I really hope it takes off, if it doesn't this album is flopping badly in the UK

Just to state how bad the single is doing on downloads in the UK, it is selling 40% of what Boots is and Boots isn't in the top 300

 

[Native_Son]

with the official release in 2 weeks time, #36 on airplay is not great to say the least

 

[Irishteen]

with the official release in 2 weeks time, #36 on airplay is not great to say the least

36 on airplay, not even close to top 300 on downloads, album is in freefall...at least the tour is selling...

 

[Native_Son]

VLV #40 on airplay after all these weeks.

its hard to believe sometimes you cant make it on your own was airplay #1 i think it was actually for 2 weeks. OK i dont think the NLOTH singles are as strong, but i dont understand the U2 unpopularity at the moment.

 

[fedeu2]

VLV #40 on airplay after all these weeks.

its hard to believe sometimes you cant make it on your own was airplay #1 i think it was actually for 2 weeks. OK i dont think the NLOTH singles are as strong, but i dont understand the U2 unpopularity at the moment.

Yes, the situation in UK is pitiful.
But I disagree on Magnificent. It´s much better a song than Sometimes for example. Don´t even mention All because of you.
People are not downloading the song but the question is: do they know it exists at all? I do think promo, in particular, the awful timing, is to be blamed for the current scenario.

 

[Irishteen]

Yes, the situation in UK is pitiful.
But I disagree on Magnificent. It´s much better a song than Sometimes for example. Don´t even mention All because of you.
People are not downloading the song but the question is: do they know it exists at all? I do think promo, in particular, the awful timing, is to be blamed for the current scenario.

It's getting some airplay, small airplay but it's getting some yet it sells less than Boots, Beautiful Day and Vertigo. It's not just lack of promo keeping the song down

 

[phommel]

Netherlands:

1-1-2-2-3-3-2 !!!

and the crisis is here too...

 

[digitize]

U2 are becoming like the Rolling Stones, except they're younger, and they don't look like corpses, and their music charts somewhat better (new RS albums are totally irrelevant), and, most importantly, they're making some of the best music of their lives. In short, they're being forced down by market stereotypes and a public with a short attention-span.

It's kinda sad.