The Best Selling Albums released after January 1, 2000 WORLDWIDE!

[STING2]

Are you serious when you say that Black & Blue doesn't hit 10M mark ?


Where is the link with Black & Blue sales ? It's not because Backstreet Boys music is shit that you have to refuse their sales, it's unfair.



Take information before contradict an other guy. Black & Blue sold 136.000 copies in 2000 and spent 17 weeks in charts in 2001, 200k shipment figure are sure.


LOL do you really believe that I doesn't know this link ?
IFPI not certifies ALL albums, they certify albums for which the major have pay to them.
Germany = 3xGold = 450k shipped
Spain = 200k (2Platinum)
Italia = 200k (2Platinum)
Netherland = 80k (Platinum)
Sweden = 60k (Platinum)
Finland = 26k (sales).
UK = 200k (shipped)
Austria = 20k (Gold)
Do maths : 450+200+200+200+80+60+20+26 = 1.256.000 = obviously more than 1M shipped in 8 Countries only.




Are you joking ? 800k SOLD in TWO countries only in 4 MONTHS it's not a "sources" to you ? In those two countries shipment are probably about 1.2M (shipment in Japan are in average 50% ahead real sales due strong first week sales and import sales). 2M in Asia is A MINIMUM.
Do you really need "so confirmed sources" when we are talking about U2 sales ?

I do maths again with all MINIMUM numbers :
8M in USA
1.192M in 8 European countries.
250k in Brazil
800k in Japan + South Korea (SOLD, much more shipped)
85k in Oceania
= 10.327.000 copies shipped AT LEAST without Canada, China, India, Philipines, Malaysia, France, Switzerland, Norway, Mexico etc etc etc etc etc...

Your "confirmed sources" are here, I don't know what you need more, this album have easily sold over 10M.

This has NOTHING to do with my opinions about the Backstreet Boys music. For U2, or any other artist sales, I use confirmed figures from RIAA and IFPI primarily to determine global sales. IFPI certifies album sales throughout Europe and the cost of certification is so small compared to the profits made from selling 1 million albums that there is no reason not to certify unless the album has not reached that certification point. It is true that certifications can be delayed for various reasons, but its been nearly 5 years since "Black And Blue" was released and there would be no reason to not have it certified by now, if it had infact sold 1 million copies.

The websites I use to help determine the figures above are www.riaa.com www.ifpi.org www.cria.ca www.bpi.co.uk and www.mediatraffic.de .

If you can site another reputable website which clearly shows confirmed sales figures for "Black And Blue" in the amounts you claim, then I'll add those to their total. Fan sites do not count. I'm looking for websites that show that an auditing firm has certified the sales level, whether it be the firms own website like the RIAA in the USA, or the countries national chart which shows official certifcations next to the album.

There are way to many inflated figures out there with no basis in fact.

 

[MJDangerous]

If you can site another reputable website which clearly shows confirmed sales figures for "Black And Blue" in the amounts you claim, then I'll add those to their total. Fan sites do not count. I'm looking for websites that show that an auditing firm has certified the sales level, whether it be the firms own website like the RIAA in the USA, or the countries national chart which shows official certifcations next to the album.

There are way to many inflated figures out there with no basis in fact.

Are you joking again ? ALL MY NUMBERS ARE OFFICIAL SHIPMENT NUMBERS BY OFFICIAL COUNTRIES DATABASE LIKE RIAA OR BPI, have you understand now ?

 

[STING2]

Are you joking again ? ALL MY NUMBERS ARE OFFICIAL SHIPMENT NUMBERS BY OFFICIAL COUNTRIES DATABASE LIKE RIAA OR BPI, have you understand now ?

Well if that is indeed the case, please show us the website where we can go to, to see this information. None of the information you've put up for these alleged sales can be found at www.riaa.com , www.ifpi.org , www.cria.ca or www.bpi.co.uk .

I'm not going to simply add alleged sales figures simply based on a claim whether its correct or not. I need to see this information on a reputable website like the ones I have listed above that are directly involved in doing the official audit to determine sales, or shows chart information that has the certification listed next to the album. No fan websites.

 

[MJDangerous]

Well if that is indeed the case, please show us the website where we can go to, to see this information. None of the information you've put up for these alleged sales can be found at ww.riaa.com, ww.ifpi.org, ww.cria.ca or ww.bpi.co.uk .

You really know only those links ? More than 20 links of OFFICIALS database are avalaible on the internet, all my numbers are right. Database for those countries are avalaible : France, UK, USA, Canada, Argentina, Brazil, Hungary, Poland, Finland, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, Norway, Danemark, New Zealand, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Austria, Switzerland, Germany and I probably forget others, I know all links for those database (2 of them are mine), but I have not 15 post, in this way I can not put links in my post. But my numbers are reliable and sure at 100%.

 

[MJDangerous]

No fan websites.

One last word : I'm fan of Bob Dylan, Michael Jackson, Lou Reed, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, The Pixies, Patti Smith, David Bowie, U2, Prince, Stevie Wonder etc... Do you really believe that I go in Backstreet Boys' fan websites ? I prefer kill me myself than go to a fan website of this f*cking shit band ! LOL

 

[WHYWHY]

you can always type a link like this:

w w w. google.com.au

which means you don't need 15 posts to allow your claims to be checked and validated.

 

[MJDangerous]

you can always type a link like this:

w w w. google.com.au

which means you don't need 15 posts to allow your claims to be checked and validated.

Oh yes it's true. So, to earn time go here at the middle of the page :
ht tp://w ww2.charts infrance.net /forums/ft opic5605

Go here and verify numbers for Germany, Sweden, Netherland, Austria, Finland and South Korea. Italia and Japan numbers are in UKmix forum.
Spain sales are in Jordy's World Page, Mangaka. Brazil sales are here : htt p:// w w w.abpd.org.br/certificados.asp

 

[STING2]

Oh yes it's true. So, to earn time go here at the middle of the page :
ht tp://w ww2.charts infrance.net /forums/ft opic5605

Go here and verify numbers for Germany, Sweden, Netherland, Austria, Finland and South Korea. Italia and Japan numbers are in UKmix forum.
Spain sales are in Jordy's World Page, Mangaka. Brazil sales are here : htt p:// w w w.abpd.org.br/certificados.asp

Well with the first website you provided, I was able to get these confirmed sales figures from IFPI related websites for the "Black And Blue" Album

Sweden 60,000
Switzerland 50,000
Norway 15,000
United Kingdom 100,000
Netherlands 80,000
Finland 26,598
Austria 15,000
Germany 450,000

Total: 796,598 for Europe.

You will have to be more specific about where the sales figures for Italy and Spain are. I was not able to find them. It appears it might be on a message board. If its just a sales figure posted on a message board, then that will not count. It needs to be a website like the ones that were listed in the first link you gave.

Also, I noticed the Brazil figures for Black And Blue are 125,000 not 250,000. The Backstreet Boys are an international artist and are certified accordingly. Platinum for international artist in Brazil is 125,000 and that is what Black And Blue is listed at there.

It appears that Black And Blue may have sold over 1 million copies in Europe based on the results I found above from the sites you provided. But I want to see some confirmed figures for Spain, Italy, and France before I change anything. So if you could be more specific about where to find these sales figures for Italy, Spain and France, that would be helpful.

 

[MJDangerous]

Also, I noticed the Brazil figures for Black And Blue are 125,000 not 250,000. The Backstreet Boys are an international artist and are certified accordingly. Platinum for international artist in Brazil is 125,000 and that is what Black And Blue is listed at there.

It's wrong. A note say that the international Platinum disc have a "**Lançamentos a partir de janeiro de 2001" which signify that before this all awards are equal for everybody, local and foreign acts (I'm Portuguese). So a Platinum Award in 2000 like Black & Blue signify 250k shipped, not 125k.
The same for Austria Gold Award, before 2001 Gold Award level are at 20k not 15k.
In UK now, the album sold 136k in 2000 (look to year end top 200 chart) and it spent 17 weeks between the top 60 and the top 200 (go to Zobbel homepage) in 2001 which signify aorund 3.000 copies sold by week. 136 + 3 x 17 = 187k sold (not shipped) in 2000 more the 17 first weeks of 2001. The album sold obvisouly more than 100k it's official. Shipment sales figure is over 200k it's a fact.
In Spain I look to Mangaka website and It seems to be offline. But I put they're informations in a word document, Backstreet Boys Awards in Spain :
Backstreet Boys Backstreet's Back (1997) 9 PLATINUM
Backstreet Boys Millenium (1999) 4 PLATINUM
Backstreet Boys Black & Blue (2000) 2 PLATINUM

Backstreet's Back is the second highest certification in Spain history by a foreign artist (#1 are the Spice Girls and #3 Michael Jackson).

Now concerning Italy, certification came in the Italian thread in UKmix, a board about charts, which give numbers for every artist, you can look for all what you want about U2 for example in this board and you will see that all informations are right. If you always not agree (if it's the case it's stupid, because those numbers are completely sure, you can trust me), Black and Blue are #52 in year end Chart in Italy (You can found them here : h ttp://ww w.hitparadeita lia.it/hp_ye nda/lpe200 0.htm) wich equal more and less at 200k copies sold.

France now, You can answer me for everything what you want about French sales, in my website you have more than 450 French chart runs with sales and French database in chartinfrance website is mine. Black And Blue sold nothing in this country, it doesn't enter in charts but the million mark in Europe is already behind Black And Blue sales. Don't believe that RIAA, BPI and IFPI website are perfect, many, many awards are missing and many others have neither exist, but this not signify that each time the album is not highter than their certifications. Look for example "Nevermind" album (Nirvana), I can prove that it sold 2 millions copies in UK and it is only 2xPlatinum.
I have hundreds examples like this of BPI, RIAA or IFPI mistakes.

 

[STING2]

It's wrong. A note say that the international Platinum disc have a "**Lançamentos a partir de janeiro de 2001" which signify that before this all awards are equal for everybody, local and foreign acts (I'm Portuguese). So a Platinum Award in 2000 like Black & Blue signify 250k shipped, not 125k.
The same for Austria Gold Award, before 2001 Gold Award level are at 20k not 15k.
In UK now, the album sold 136k in 2000 (look to year end top 200 chart) and it spent 17 weeks between the top 60 and the top 200 (go to Zobbel homepage) in 2001 which signify aorund 3.000 copies sold by week. 136 + 3 x 17 = 187k sold (not shipped) in 2000 more the 17 first weeks of 2001. The album sold obvisouly more than 100k it's official. Shipment sales figure is over 200k it's a fact.
In Spain I look to Mangaka website and It seems to be offline. But I put they're informations in a word document, Backstreet Boys Awards in Spain :
Backstreet Boys Backstreet's Back (1997) 9 PLATINUM
Backstreet Boys Millenium (1999) 4 PLATINUM
Backstreet Boys Black & Blue (2000) 2 PLATINUM

Backstreet's Back is the second highest certification in Spain history by a foreign artist (#1 are the Spice Girls and #3 Michael Jackson).

Now concerning Italy, certification came in the Italian thread in UKmix, a board about charts, which give numbers for every artist, you can look for all what you want about U2 for example in this board and you will see that all informations are right. If you always not agree (if it's the case it's stupid, because those numbers are completely sure, you can trust me), Black and Blue are #52 in year end Chart in Italy (You can found them here : h ttp://ww w.hitparadeita lia.it/hp_ye nda/lpe200 0.htm) wich equal more and less at 200k copies sold.

France now, You can answer me for everything what you want about French sales, in my website you have more than 450 French chart runs with sales and French database in chartinfrance website is mine. Black And Blue sold nothing in this country, it doesn't enter in charts but the million mark in Europe is already behind Black And Blue sales. Don't believe that RIAA, BPI and IFPI website are perfect, many, many awards are missing and many others have neither exist, but this not signify that each time the album is not highter than their certifications. Look for example "Nevermind" album (Nirvana), I can prove that it sold 2 millions copies in UK and it is only 2xPlatinum.
I have hundreds examples like this of BPI, RIAA or IFPI mistakes.

I understand what your saying for the Brazil now.

For the United Kingdom, your going to have to give a website address that clearly shows sales figures from a reputable source like the United Kingdom's version of Soundscan. I'm not going to go with someone's alleged estimates of sales for various chart positions unless it is the precise figures from a soundscan type source in the United Kingdom. BPI shows the album certified GOLD for 100,000 in sales, and until I see the precise data from the official source that shows otherwise, that is what one should go with. Nothing is "fact" until BPI or UK Soundscan clearly shows that it is.

If an when the Spain website you refer to gets back online and it is indeed an official site with confirmed sales figures by the auditing firm for Spanish sales, then they can be added in.

For Italy, I need to see the RIAA equivalent or Soundscan equivalent. I could not find the "Italian Thread" in UKMIX which is a message board. Once again I'd like to stress that an RIAA equivalent or Soundscan equivalent site is needed, not a message board where people make random postings of information that may or may not be accurate. The website with the year end charts is interesting although I found that albums released in the previous year would often not show up in the top 100 until the following year, and albums that clearly had long chart runs in both years, would only show up in one of the years. So I question how these particular charts were made, plus they do not provide sales figures at all.

I understand RIAA, IFPI and BPI at times understate sales because the figures for older albums are not always updated. But most of the time, their figures are accurate and reliable and I've been able to see this by looking at in depth articles in Billboard Magazine's international section discussing global sales and comparing them to figures from RIAA and IFPI. The burden of proof is on those that claim that a particular figure from RIAA, IFPI, BPI etc. is inaccurate.

You have to remember that there is a lot of information out there that is often inaccurate and has no source backing it up.

Right now, based on the websites you have sited, It can be confirmed that Black And Blue sold over 796,598 in Europe. When you can show me confirmed sales from RIAA or Soundscan equilavent sources for the country in question, I'll add them to the figure. It looks very likely that Black And Blue in fact did sell over a million copies in Europe, but I'm not going to change anything until I get some more figures.

 

[MJDangerous]

No one "official" database like BPI or RIAA are avalaible in the internet for Italia, their equivalent, the FIMI have no online database, only in books. So, in this way if you really don't care about sales which are sure but not in a "official" site, why you count U2 sales in Italia ? Where is the "official" number ? Nowhere, because it is not avalaible on internet, so if you don't care about 200k copies sold by Black & Blue in Italia, ok, but you have to put 0 albums sold by U2 in this country.
But of course, U2 albums don't sold 0 copies each in Italia, you agree ? Looks for example to many 2000 sales :

2000 Italian Best sellers

1, Beatles 900.000
Esco di rado e parlo ancora meno, Adriano Celentano 880.000
Squerez, Lunapop, 700 000
Supernatural, Santana 680.000
Io Non so parlar d’amore, Adriano Celentano 650.000 (+1 000 000 in 1999)
STILELIBERO, Eros Ramazzotti 600.000
ALL THAT YOU CAN’T LEAVE BEHIND, U2 500.000
QUANDO LA MIA VITA CAMBIERA, Gigi D’Alessio 420.000
GREATEST HITS, Lenny Kravitz (Virgin) 420.000
FESTIIVALBAR COMPILATION BLU, Vari 400.000
FESTIVALBAR COMPILATION ROSSA, Vari 350.000
CALIFORNICATION, Red Hot Chili Peppers 350.000 (+ 350 000 in 99)
NOT THAT KIND, Anastacia 300.000
A DAY WITHOUT RAIN, Enya 300.000
MUSIC, Madonna 300.000
SOUND LOADED, Ricky Martin 300.000
FRAGMENTS 0F FREEDOM, Morcheeba 300.000
NE’ BUONI NE’ CATIVI, Piero Pelù 300.000
CENTO DI QUESTE VITE, Pooh 300.000
LOVERS ROCK, Sade 300.000
IN BLUE, Corrs 300.000

Black & Blue come not long of The Corrs.

For UK year end charts by Music Week (the British Soundscan) are know :

Top UK Albums 2000

Pos. Pk - wks
001 - 001 - 007 - 1 - The Beatles - 1,850,000
002 - 001 - 018 - Sing When You're Winning - Robbie Williams - 1,600,000
003 - 001 - 032 - The Marshall Mathers LP - Eminem - 1,585,000
004 - 001 - 008 - Coast To Coast - Westlife - 1,374,000
005 - 001 - 052 - Play - Moby - 1,333,000
006 - 001 - 020 - Born To Do It - Craig David - 1,330,000
007 - 001 - 010 - The Greatest Hits - Texas - 1,162,000
008 - 001 - 025 - Parachutes - Coldplay - 1,104,000
009 - 001 - 033 - The Greatest Hits - Whitney Houston - 1,081,000
010 - 001 - 015 - Music - Madonna - 1,055,000
011 - 002 - 035 - White Ladder - David Gray - 1,025,000
012 - 001 - 022 - Ronan - Ronan Keating - 1,007,000
013 - 001 - 052 - Reload - Tom Jones - 900,000
014 - 001 - 052 - The Man Who - Travis - 896,000
015 - 001 - 052 - Rise - Gabrielle - 829,000
016 - 001 - 024 - In Blue - The Corrs - 826,000
017 - 001 - 029 - 7 - S Club 7 - 819,000
018 - 001 - 052 - Supernatural - Santana - 743,000
019 - 002 - 033 - Oop! … I Did It Again - Britney Spears - 726,000
020 - 002 - 052 - Come On Over - Shania Twain - 665,000
021 - 007 - 052 - Affirmation - Savage Garden - 639,000
022 - 010 - 052 - The Writing's On The Wall - Destiny's Child - 630,000
023 - 006 - 052 - The Barry White Collection - Barry White - 613,000
024 - 004 - 052 - Northern Star - Melanie C. - 561,000
025 - 005 - 032 - Onka's Big Moka - Toploader - 559,000
026 - 001 - 037 - Standing On The Shoulder Of Gaints - Oasis - 541,000
027 - 004 - 009 - Buzz - Steps - 541,000
028 - 003 - 052 - On How Life Is - Macy Gray - 541,000
029 - 001 - 011 - Saints & Sinners - All Saints - 492,000
030 - 001 - 009 - All That You Can't Leave Behind - U2 - 489,000
031 - 008 - 006 - The 50 Greatest Hits - Elvis Presley - 485,000
032 - 003 - 052 - Westlife - Westlife - 469,000
033 - 005 - 014 - The Voice - Russell Watson - 454,000
034 - 003 - 009 - Best Of Blur - Blur - 446,000
035 - 006 - 006 - A Day Without Rain - Enya - 418,000
036 - 002 - 052 - … Baby One More Time - Britney Spears - 403,000
037 - 007 - 010 - The Very Best Of UB40 - 1980-2000 - UB40 - 392,000
038 - 001 - 031 - Crush - Bon Jovi - 389,000
039 - 004 - 052 - 2001 - Dr. Dre - 384,000
040 - 009 - 052 - Californication - The Red Hot Chili Peppers - 372,000
041 - 007 - 052 - Gold - Greatest Hits - Abba - 367,000
042 - 006 - 029 - Hear My Cry - Sonique - 347,000
043 - 007 - 007 - One Night Only - The Greatest Hits - Elton John - 328,000
044 - 010 - 052 - The Slim Shady LP - Eminem - 321,000
045 - 009 - 052 - Steptacular - Steps - 312,000
046 - 001 - 027 - Alone With Everbody - Richard Ashcroft - 304,000
047 - 007 - 052 - Performance & Cocktails - Stereophonics - 301,000
048 - 006 - 012 - The Whole Story - His Greatest Hits - Cliff Richard - 298,000
049 - 011 - 052 - Brand New Day - Sting - 297,000
050 - 001 - 013 - Kid A - Radiohead - 280,000
051 - 005 - 052 - S Club - S Club 7 - 277,000
052 - 003 - 038 - Things To Make & Do - Moloko - 266,000
053 - 021 - 005 - Gold - Greatest Hits - The Carpenters - 244,000
054 - 012 - 052 - Invincible - 5 - 240,000
055 - 006 - 052 - All The Way … A Decade Of Songs - Céline Dion - 237,000
056 - 007 - 037 - The Woman In Me - Shania Twain - 231,000
057 - 031 - 052 - My Way - The Very Best Of… - Frank Sinatra - 230,000
058 - 002 - 014 - Light Years - Kylie Minogue - 225,000
059 - 002 - 008 - Forever - Spice Girls - 224,000
060 - 007 - 017 - Gold - The Best Of… - Spandau Ballet - 222,000
061 - 016 - 052 - I've Been Expecting You - Robbie Williams - 220,000
062 - 011 - 047 - Talk On Corners - The Corrs - 214,000
063 - 002 - 011 - Chocolate Starfish And The Hot Dog Flavoured Water - Limp Bizkit - 208,000
064 - 013 - 027 - The Hour Of Bewilderbeast - Badly Drawn Boy - 200,000
065 - 015 - 049 - Enema Of The State - Blink 182 - 196,000
066 - 024 - 006 - It's All About The Stragglers - Artful Dodger - 195,000
067 - 013 - 036 - Can't Take Me Home - Pink - 194,000
068 - 015 - 041 - Automatic For The People - REM - 192,000
069 - 015 - 049 - By Request - Boyzone - 191,000
070 - 009 - 041 - The Platinum Album! - Vengaboys - 190,000
071 - 015 - 047 - Unleash The Dragon - Sisqo - 187,000
072 - 012 - 010 - Greatest Hits - Lenny Kravitz - 182,000
073 - 025 - 007 - Wishing - Martine McCutcheon - 182,000
074 - 009 - 047 - Word Gets Around - Stereophonics - 180,000
075 - 018 - 007 - Lovers Rock - Sade - 177,000
076 - 025 - 051 - Legend - Bob Marley & The Wailers - 175,000
077 - 013 - 010 - Solo - Freddie Mercury - 175,000
078 - 014 - 006 - The A-List - A1 - 175,000
079 - 018 - 034 - Playing My Game - Lene Marlin - 173,000
080 - 022 - 051 - The Best Of Me - Bryan Adams - 172,000
081 - 005 - 018 - Engelbert At His Very best - Engelbert Humperdinck - 166,000
082 - 008 - 052 - The Immaculate Collection - Madonna - 166,000
083 - 016 - 008 - Sound Loaded - Ricky Martin - 164,000
084 - 002 - 022 - Pieces In A Modern Style - William Orbit - 162,000
085 - 010 - 045 - You've Come A Long Way, Baby - Fatboy Slim - 161,000
086 - 014 - 038 - No Strings Attached - N Sync - 159,000
087 - 016 - 013 - Born - Bond - 157,000
088 - 014 - 048 - Christina Aguilera - Christina Aguilera - 154,000
089 - 012 - 040 - Unplugged - The Corrs - 152,000
090 - 030 - 006 - Dream A Dream - Charlotte Church - 151,000
091 - 015 - 042 - Millennium - Backstreet Boys - 151,000
092 - 004 - 011 - Faith & Inspiration - Daniel O'Donnell - 151,000
093 - 012 - 039 - The Ultimate Collection - Santana - 151,000
094 - 002 - 012 - Painting It Red - The Beautiful South - 150,000
095 - 014 - 039 - Surrender - The Chemical Brothers - 150,000
096 - 006 - 025 - Fragments Of Freedom - Morcheeba - 148,000
097 - 005 - 007 - Familiar To Millions - Oasis - 146,000
098 - 014 - 044 - Songs From The Last Century - George Michael - 140,000
099 - 021 - 042 - Greatest Hits - The Eurythmics - 138,000
100 - 012 - 007 - Conspiracy Of One - The Offspring - 138,000
101 - 019 - 045 - Tracy Chapman - Tracy Chapman - 138,000
102 - 024 - 041 - Leftism - Leftfield - 136,000
103 - 013 - 006 - Black & Blue - Backstreet Boys - 136,000
104 - 008 - 033 - Schizophonic - Geri Halliwell - 135,000
105 - 008 - 044 - Forgiven, Not Forgotten - The Corrs - 134,000
106 - 002 - 015 - Heliocentric - Paul Weller - 134,000
107 - 015 - 028 - Riding With The King - B.B. King - 133,000
108 - 003 - 031 - The Heat - Toni Braxton - 133,000
109 - 004 - 014 - Sailing To Philadelphia - Mark Knopfler - 133,000
110 - 006 - 027 - Shining Like A National Guitar - Greatest Hits - Paul Simon - 132,000
111 - 021 - 036 - Out Of Time - REM - 130,000
112 - 028 - 036 - Rumours - Fleetwood Mac - 125,000
113 - 020 - 038 - The Greatest Hits - Cher - 125,000
114 - 011 - 032 - The Hush - Texas - 125,000
115 - 023 - 050 - Ray Of Light - Madonna - 124,000
116 - 018 - 036 - Remedy - Basement Jaxx - 124,000
117 - 029 - 041 - Jagged Little Pill - Alanis Morissette - 123,000
118 - 019 - 006 - The W - Wu-Tang Clan - 122,000
119 - 017 - 031 - Feeling Strangely Fine - Semisonic - 117,000
120 - 029 - 049 - Showbiz - Muse - 117,000
121 - 026 - 049 - Sogno - Andrea Bocelli - 117,000
122 - 027 - 050 - Ricky Martin - Ricky Martin - 115,000
123 - 008 - 031 - Tales From New York … - Simon & Garfunkel - 115,000
124 - 006 - 025 - Inspiration - Jane McDonald - 115,000
125 - 017 - 029 - Gladiator OST - Hans Zimmer & Lisa Gerrard - 114,000
126 - 062 - 052 - Greatest Hits - Queen - 113,000
127 - 043 - 037 - There Is Nothing Left To Lose - Foo Fighters - 113,000
128 - 024 - 052 - Life Thru A Lens - Robbie Williams - 112,000
129 - 003 - 019 - Xtrmntr - Primal Scream - 111,000
130 - 004 - 013 - Warning - Green Day - 110,000
131 - 020 - 009 - This Time … It's Personal - Michael Ball - 110,000
132 - 027 - 007 - It's Only Love - Simply Red - 110,000
133 - 008 - 008 - Halfway Between The Gutter & The Stars - Fatboy Slim - 108,000
134 - 028 - 047 - Big Calm - Morcheeba - 107,000
135 - 036 - 011 - No Angel - Dido - 107,000
136 - 059 - 051 - The Best Of 1980-1990 - U2 - 104,000
137 - 026 - 047 - Greatest Hits III - Queen - 104,000
138 - 011 - 013 - Slave To Love - Bryan Ferry - 102,000
139 - 045 - 009 - Popular Music From TV, Film & Opera - Maria Callas - 101,000
140 - 058 - 052 - Buena Vista Social Club - Ry Cooder - 100,000


Black & Blue is #103 in this year end chart with 136.000 copies sold. For 2001 go in Zobbel page again. Like I have already say many times, Black And Blue shipment is at least at 200k in UK.

 

[MJDangerous]

Concerning RIAA, BPI etc... Their certifications are many times FALSE, and not only for old albums. How can you explain this :

U2 - Achtung Baby = 5.4 millions copies sold (Soundscan) + 0 in BMG top 100 list (the album is not charted).

Certification by RIAA : 8xPlatinum in 1997.

Michael Jackson - Dangerous (release 1 week before) = 6 millions copes sold (Soundscan) + 296.000 copies sold in BMG, total = 6.3 millions.

Certification by RIAA : 7xPlatinum in 2000.


Dangerous outsold Achtung Baby by about 1 millions copies in USA and it is certified at less than Achtung Baby and 3 years after !

 

[fitz]

Concerning RIAA, BPI etc... Their certifications are many times FALSE, and not only for old albums. How can you explain this :

U2 - Achtung Baby = 5.4 millions copies sold (Soundscan) + 0 in BMG top 100 list (the album is not charted).

Certification by RIAA : 8xPlatinum in 1997.

Michael Jackson - Dangerous (release 1 week before) = 6 millions copes sold (Soundscan) + 296.000 copies sold in BMG, total = 6.3 millions.

Certification by RIAA : 7xPlatinum in 2000.


Dangerous outsold Achtung Baby by about 1 millions copies in USA and it is certified at less than Achtung Baby and 3 years after !

So far I know, Soundscan only cover ca. 60-70% in the early 90ies. This is the reason, why Achtung Baby sold so less regarding to Soundscan. But Sting2 know more about this!

 

[MJDangerous]

So far I know, Soundscan only cover ca. 60-70% in the early 90ies. This is the reason, why Achtung Baby sold so less regarding to Soundscan. But Sting2 know more about this!

40% in 1991 exactly ! But I take on purpose 2 albums release with only 1 week of difference, so Dangerous really sold more than Achtung Baby !

 

[STING2]

Concerning RIAA, BPI etc... Their certifications are many times FALSE, and not only for old albums. How can you explain this :

U2 - Achtung Baby = 5.4 millions copies sold (Soundscan) + 0 in BMG top 100 list (the album is not charted).

Certification by RIAA : 8xPlatinum in 1997.

Michael Jackson - Dangerous (release 1 week before) = 6 millions copes sold (Soundscan) + 296.000 copies sold in BMG, total = 6.3 millions.

Certification by RIAA : 7xPlatinum in 2000.


Dangerous outsold Achtung Baby by about 1 millions copies in USA and it is certified at less than Achtung Baby and 3 years after !

The RIAA figures are official and correct. The RIAA does an official AUDIT of the record company to determine the number of albums sold, not only to retailers, but to record clubs and any other company that may in some way resell the album. As of 1997, Achtung Baby had sold 8 million copies. What the album has sold since that time is unkown. Because older albums are not always certified when they reach a new sales level, old RIAA certifications will somtimes be well below what the current sales level for that album is.

Soundscan, BMG and other companies only determine sales for specific markets. RIAA goes to the record company which produces and sales EVERY copy of the album and determines and certifies the total number that the record company have put out into the entire market place whether its for retail that is often recorded by soundscan or record clubs like BMG or other business's or even library's which may have purchased a copy or several copies for their inventories.

The IFPI does the same, as the RIAA.

So as for Dangerous sales vs. Achtung Baby's, its obvious that Achtung Baby has outsold Dangerous in the USA. Achtung Baby was certified in 1997 with 8 million in sales, and by 2000, Dangerous had just been certified at 7 million sales.

Whats more, lets take a look at where the two albums rank at Amazon.com currently.

Achtung Baby is at #528

Dangerous is at #16,661

While Dangerous sold a little faster than Achtung Baby initially, its obvious that over time, Achtung Baby has outsold Dangerous here in the USA.

RIAA, BPI, and IFPI certifications are never false! They may understate album sales sometimes because there are times when albums are not certified as soon as they reach the new sales level. The accountants who work for RIAA, BPI, and IFPI are as professional as any other accountants in the industry. When they are called upon to do an audit in order to determine if an album has a reached a new certification level, you can be sure that they will do extensive work that will be cross checked to insure 100% accuracy. Soundscan only records albums sold through retailers that have Soundscan system involved. BMG record club only records sales purchases of records sold by BMG record club. All albums sold by Achtung Baby come from the record company and the only accurate determination of total sales levels come when an audit is done of the record company.

 

[STING2]

No one "official" database like BPI or RIAA are avalaible in the internet for Italia, their equivalent, the FIMI have no online database, only in books. So, in this way if you really don't care about sales which are sure but not in a "official" site, why you count U2 sales in Italia ? Where is the "official" number ? Nowhere, because it is not avalaible on internet, so if you don't care about 200k copies sold by Black & Blue in Italia, ok, but you have to put 0 albums sold by U2 in this country.
But of course, U2 albums don't sold 0 copies each in Italia, you agree ? Looks for example to many 2000 sales :

2000 Italian Best sellers

1, Beatles 900.000
Esco di rado e parlo ancora meno, Adriano Celentano 880.000
Squerez, Lunapop, 700 000
Supernatural, Santana 680.000
Io Non so parlar d’amore, Adriano Celentano 650.000 (+1 000 000 in 1999)
STILELIBERO, Eros Ramazzotti 600.000
ALL THAT YOU CAN’T LEAVE BEHIND, U2 500.000
QUANDO LA MIA VITA CAMBIERA, Gigi D’Alessio 420.000
GREATEST HITS, Lenny Kravitz (Virgin) 420.000
FESTIIVALBAR COMPILATION BLU, Vari 400.000
FESTIVALBAR COMPILATION ROSSA, Vari 350.000
CALIFORNICATION, Red Hot Chili Peppers 350.000 (+ 350 000 in 99)
NOT THAT KIND, Anastacia 300.000
A DAY WITHOUT RAIN, Enya 300.000
MUSIC, Madonna 300.000
SOUND LOADED, Ricky Martin 300.000
FRAGMENTS 0F FREEDOM, Morcheeba 300.000
NE’ BUONI NE’ CATIVI, Piero Pelù 300.000
CENTO DI QUESTE VITE, Pooh 300.000
LOVERS ROCK, Sade 300.000
IN BLUE, Corrs 300.000

Black & Blue come not long of The Corrs.

For UK year end charts by Music Week (the British Soundscan) are know :

Top UK Albums 2000

Pos. Pk - wks
001 - 001 - 007 - 1 - The Beatles - 1,850,000
002 - 001 - 018 - Sing When You're Winning - Robbie Williams - 1,600,000
003 - 001 - 032 - The Marshall Mathers LP - Eminem - 1,585,000
004 - 001 - 008 - Coast To Coast - Westlife - 1,374,000
005 - 001 - 052 - Play - Moby - 1,333,000
006 - 001 - 020 - Born To Do It - Craig David - 1,330,000
007 - 001 - 010 - The Greatest Hits - Texas - 1,162,000
008 - 001 - 025 - Parachutes - Coldplay - 1,104,000
009 - 001 - 033 - The Greatest Hits - Whitney Houston - 1,081,000
010 - 001 - 015 - Music - Madonna - 1,055,000
011 - 002 - 035 - White Ladder - David Gray - 1,025,000
012 - 001 - 022 - Ronan - Ronan Keating - 1,007,000
013 - 001 - 052 - Reload - Tom Jones - 900,000
014 - 001 - 052 - The Man Who - Travis - 896,000
015 - 001 - 052 - Rise - Gabrielle - 829,000
016 - 001 - 024 - In Blue - The Corrs - 826,000
017 - 001 - 029 - 7 - S Club 7 - 819,000
018 - 001 - 052 - Supernatural - Santana - 743,000
019 - 002 - 033 - Oop! … I Did It Again - Britney Spears - 726,000
020 - 002 - 052 - Come On Over - Shania Twain - 665,000
021 - 007 - 052 - Affirmation - Savage Garden - 639,000
022 - 010 - 052 - The Writing's On The Wall - Destiny's Child - 630,000
023 - 006 - 052 - The Barry White Collection - Barry White - 613,000
024 - 004 - 052 - Northern Star - Melanie C. - 561,000
025 - 005 - 032 - Onka's Big Moka - Toploader - 559,000
026 - 001 - 037 - Standing On The Shoulder Of Gaints - Oasis - 541,000
027 - 004 - 009 - Buzz - Steps - 541,000
028 - 003 - 052 - On How Life Is - Macy Gray - 541,000
029 - 001 - 011 - Saints & Sinners - All Saints - 492,000
030 - 001 - 009 - All That You Can't Leave Behind - U2 - 489,000
031 - 008 - 006 - The 50 Greatest Hits - Elvis Presley - 485,000
032 - 003 - 052 - Westlife - Westlife - 469,000
033 - 005 - 014 - The Voice - Russell Watson - 454,000
034 - 003 - 009 - Best Of Blur - Blur - 446,000
035 - 006 - 006 - A Day Without Rain - Enya - 418,000
036 - 002 - 052 - … Baby One More Time - Britney Spears - 403,000
037 - 007 - 010 - The Very Best Of UB40 - 1980-2000 - UB40 - 392,000
038 - 001 - 031 - Crush - Bon Jovi - 389,000
039 - 004 - 052 - 2001 - Dr. Dre - 384,000
040 - 009 - 052 - Californication - The Red Hot Chili Peppers - 372,000
041 - 007 - 052 - Gold - Greatest Hits - Abba - 367,000
042 - 006 - 029 - Hear My Cry - Sonique - 347,000
043 - 007 - 007 - One Night Only - The Greatest Hits - Elton John - 328,000
044 - 010 - 052 - The Slim Shady LP - Eminem - 321,000
045 - 009 - 052 - Steptacular - Steps - 312,000
046 - 001 - 027 - Alone With Everbody - Richard Ashcroft - 304,000
047 - 007 - 052 - Performance & Cocktails - Stereophonics - 301,000
048 - 006 - 012 - The Whole Story - His Greatest Hits - Cliff Richard - 298,000
049 - 011 - 052 - Brand New Day - Sting - 297,000
050 - 001 - 013 - Kid A - Radiohead - 280,000
051 - 005 - 052 - S Club - S Club 7 - 277,000
052 - 003 - 038 - Things To Make & Do - Moloko - 266,000
053 - 021 - 005 - Gold - Greatest Hits - The Carpenters - 244,000
054 - 012 - 052 - Invincible - 5 - 240,000
055 - 006 - 052 - All The Way … A Decade Of Songs - Céline Dion - 237,000
056 - 007 - 037 - The Woman In Me - Shania Twain - 231,000
057 - 031 - 052 - My Way - The Very Best Of… - Frank Sinatra - 230,000
058 - 002 - 014 - Light Years - Kylie Minogue - 225,000
059 - 002 - 008 - Forever - Spice Girls - 224,000
060 - 007 - 017 - Gold - The Best Of… - Spandau Ballet - 222,000
061 - 016 - 052 - I've Been Expecting You - Robbie Williams - 220,000
062 - 011 - 047 - Talk On Corners - The Corrs - 214,000
063 - 002 - 011 - Chocolate Starfish And The Hot Dog Flavoured Water - Limp Bizkit - 208,000
064 - 013 - 027 - The Hour Of Bewilderbeast - Badly Drawn Boy - 200,000
065 - 015 - 049 - Enema Of The State - Blink 182 - 196,000
066 - 024 - 006 - It's All About The Stragglers - Artful Dodger - 195,000
067 - 013 - 036 - Can't Take Me Home - Pink - 194,000
068 - 015 - 041 - Automatic For The People - REM - 192,000
069 - 015 - 049 - By Request - Boyzone - 191,000
070 - 009 - 041 - The Platinum Album! - Vengaboys - 190,000
071 - 015 - 047 - Unleash The Dragon - Sisqo - 187,000
072 - 012 - 010 - Greatest Hits - Lenny Kravitz - 182,000
073 - 025 - 007 - Wishing - Martine McCutcheon - 182,000
074 - 009 - 047 - Word Gets Around - Stereophonics - 180,000
075 - 018 - 007 - Lovers Rock - Sade - 177,000
076 - 025 - 051 - Legend - Bob Marley & The Wailers - 175,000
077 - 013 - 010 - Solo - Freddie Mercury - 175,000
078 - 014 - 006 - The A-List - A1 - 175,000
079 - 018 - 034 - Playing My Game - Lene Marlin - 173,000
080 - 022 - 051 - The Best Of Me - Bryan Adams - 172,000
081 - 005 - 018 - Engelbert At His Very best - Engelbert Humperdinck - 166,000
082 - 008 - 052 - The Immaculate Collection - Madonna - 166,000
083 - 016 - 008 - Sound Loaded - Ricky Martin - 164,000
084 - 002 - 022 - Pieces In A Modern Style - William Orbit - 162,000
085 - 010 - 045 - You've Come A Long Way, Baby - Fatboy Slim - 161,000
086 - 014 - 038 - No Strings Attached - N Sync - 159,000
087 - 016 - 013 - Born - Bond - 157,000
088 - 014 - 048 - Christina Aguilera - Christina Aguilera - 154,000
089 - 012 - 040 - Unplugged - The Corrs - 152,000
090 - 030 - 006 - Dream A Dream - Charlotte Church - 151,000
091 - 015 - 042 - Millennium - Backstreet Boys - 151,000
092 - 004 - 011 - Faith & Inspiration - Daniel O'Donnell - 151,000
093 - 012 - 039 - The Ultimate Collection - Santana - 151,000
094 - 002 - 012 - Painting It Red - The Beautiful South - 150,000
095 - 014 - 039 - Surrender - The Chemical Brothers - 150,000
096 - 006 - 025 - Fragments Of Freedom - Morcheeba - 148,000
097 - 005 - 007 - Familiar To Millions - Oasis - 146,000
098 - 014 - 044 - Songs From The Last Century - George Michael - 140,000
099 - 021 - 042 - Greatest Hits - The Eurythmics - 138,000
100 - 012 - 007 - Conspiracy Of One - The Offspring - 138,000
101 - 019 - 045 - Tracy Chapman - Tracy Chapman - 138,000
102 - 024 - 041 - Leftism - Leftfield - 136,000
103 - 013 - 006 - Black & Blue - Backstreet Boys - 136,000
104 - 008 - 033 - Schizophonic - Geri Halliwell - 135,000
105 - 008 - 044 - Forgiven, Not Forgotten - The Corrs - 134,000
106 - 002 - 015 - Heliocentric - Paul Weller - 134,000
107 - 015 - 028 - Riding With The King - B.B. King - 133,000
108 - 003 - 031 - The Heat - Toni Braxton - 133,000
109 - 004 - 014 - Sailing To Philadelphia - Mark Knopfler - 133,000
110 - 006 - 027 - Shining Like A National Guitar - Greatest Hits - Paul Simon - 132,000
111 - 021 - 036 - Out Of Time - REM - 130,000
112 - 028 - 036 - Rumours - Fleetwood Mac - 125,000
113 - 020 - 038 - The Greatest Hits - Cher - 125,000
114 - 011 - 032 - The Hush - Texas - 125,000
115 - 023 - 050 - Ray Of Light - Madonna - 124,000
116 - 018 - 036 - Remedy - Basement Jaxx - 124,000
117 - 029 - 041 - Jagged Little Pill - Alanis Morissette - 123,000
118 - 019 - 006 - The W - Wu-Tang Clan - 122,000
119 - 017 - 031 - Feeling Strangely Fine - Semisonic - 117,000
120 - 029 - 049 - Showbiz - Muse - 117,000
121 - 026 - 049 - Sogno - Andrea Bocelli - 117,000
122 - 027 - 050 - Ricky Martin - Ricky Martin - 115,000
123 - 008 - 031 - Tales From New York … - Simon & Garfunkel - 115,000
124 - 006 - 025 - Inspiration - Jane McDonald - 115,000
125 - 017 - 029 - Gladiator OST - Hans Zimmer & Lisa Gerrard - 114,000
126 - 062 - 052 - Greatest Hits - Queen - 113,000
127 - 043 - 037 - There Is Nothing Left To Lose - Foo Fighters - 113,000
128 - 024 - 052 - Life Thru A Lens - Robbie Williams - 112,000
129 - 003 - 019 - Xtrmntr - Primal Scream - 111,000
130 - 004 - 013 - Warning - Green Day - 110,000
131 - 020 - 009 - This Time … It's Personal - Michael Ball - 110,000
132 - 027 - 007 - It's Only Love - Simply Red - 110,000
133 - 008 - 008 - Halfway Between The Gutter & The Stars - Fatboy Slim - 108,000
134 - 028 - 047 - Big Calm - Morcheeba - 107,000
135 - 036 - 011 - No Angel - Dido - 107,000
136 - 059 - 051 - The Best Of 1980-1990 - U2 - 104,000
137 - 026 - 047 - Greatest Hits III - Queen - 104,000
138 - 011 - 013 - Slave To Love - Bryan Ferry - 102,000
139 - 045 - 009 - Popular Music From TV, Film & Opera - Maria Callas - 101,000
140 - 058 - 052 - Buena Vista Social Club - Ry Cooder - 100,000


Black & Blue is #103 in this year end chart with 136.000 copies sold. For 2001 go in Zobbel page again. Like I have already say many times, Black And Blue shipment is at least at 200k in UK.

U2 sales for ITALY are included in the IFPI totals. As a matter of fact, for the majority of albums, its really irrelevent what a particular album sold in France, United Kingdom, Italy etc; because IFPI does record company audits of album sales for ALL OF EUROPE. So knowing what an album sold in Italy is about as important as knowing what an album sold in Virginia or California in the United States when one is trying to determine total sales for the region or the world.

I think you have probably proved your point that Black And Blue sold at least 1 million copies in Europe, but I'd like to look around a little more for sales information before I add it to the 10 million + list. I'm curious about official sales for Denmark, Belgium, Portugal and Greece. It appears Black And Blue did cross the 1 million mark and perhaps certification was not asked for because the management did not want to draw attention to the fact that they had only sold a little over 1 million copies in Europe compared to the 8 million they did in the United States.

 

[MJDangerous]

but I'd like to look around a little more for sales information before I add it to the 10 million + list.

I don't understand you.
Do maths only :
USA : 8M
Europe : Over 1M
Japon + South Korea = 800k
Brazil = 250k

Black and Blue sales have already break 10 millions sales in those countries, what you need more ? I'm only trying to help you giving informations, I don't know why you seem so "cold" to had the Backstreet Boys.

So as for Dangerous sales vs. Achtung Baby's, its obvious that Achtung Baby has outsold Dangerous in the USA. Achtung Baby was certified in 1997 with 8 million in sales, and by 2000, Dangerous had just been certified at 7 million sales.

Here I totally NOT agree. It's obvious that Dangerous sold more than Achtung Baby not the opposite ! Amazon sales means nothing, now AB sold more by week than Dangerous (it's the second U2 classic, Dangerous is only the fourth Michael Jackson classic) but I give you ACTUAL soundscan numbers. Dangerous outsold officialy AB by 1 millions copies. It's only an example to show you that RIAA is long to be perfect. It's like French aquivalent, the SNEP, their database is so bad that I had to do myself another French database which is this time really reliable.

I have many overs examples, how can you explain this :
All The Way... A Decade Of Song (Celine Dion) sold 7.2 millions copies (Official Soundscan sales) in USA.
This album sold 1 million copies in BMG list, so over 2 millions in all Music Club, maybe 2.5M.
In this way this album sold OFFICIALY 9.5 millions in USA.
RIAA certification for All The Way... A Decade Of Song : Only 6xPlatinum.
Again, the RIAA figures are OFFICIAL, but NOT ALWAYS CORRECT.
Half of Celine Dion albums are Officialy undercertified by the RIAA.

Other example ? Metallica Black Album VS Ropin' The Wind album by Garth Brook (two albums released with only 2 weeks difference and those two are NOT avalaible in Music Club catalogue, so ALL their sales are counted in soundscan numbers).
Metallica :
Over 14.3 millions copies sold (Soundscan official number)
Certification by RIAA : 14xPlatinum (in December 2003)
Ropin' The Wind :
Over 9.6 millions copies sold (Soundscan official number)
Certification by RIAA : 14xPlatinum (in September 1998).

How can you explain that an album which are certified at the same level than an other more than 5 years before have sold no less than 4.7 millions less than this same album ??

Sting2, realise well that RIAA ARE MANY TIMES WRONG.

 

[STING2]

I don't understand you.
Do maths only :
USA : 8M
Europe : Over 1M
Japon + South Korea = 800k
Brazil = 250k

Black and Blue sales have already break 10 millions sales in those countries, what you need more ? I'm only trying to help you giving informations, I don't know why you seem so "cold" to had the Backstreet Boys.



Here I totally NOT agree. It's obvious that Dangerous sold more than Achtung Baby not the opposite ! Amazon sales means nothing, now AB sold more by week than Dangerous (it's the second U2 classic, Dangerous is only the fourth Michael Jackson classic) but I give you ACTUAL soundscan numbers. Dangerous outsold officialy AB by 1 millions copies. It's only an example to show you that RIAA is long to be perfect. It's like French aquivalent, the SNEP, their database is so bad that I had to do myself another French database which is this time really reliable.

I have many overs examples, how can you explain this :
All The Way... A Decade Of Song (Celine Dion) sold 7.2 millions copies (Official Soundscan sales) in USA.
This album sold 1 million copies in BMG list, so over 2 millions in all Music Club, maybe 2.5M.
In this way this album sold OFFICIALY 9.5 millions in USA.
RIAA certification for All The Way... A Decade Of Song : Only 6xPlatinum.
Again, the RIAA figures are OFFICIAL, but NOT ALWAYS CORRECT.
Half of Celine Dion albums are Officialy undercertified by the RIAA.

Other example ? Metallica Black Album VS Ropin' The Wind album by Garth Brook (two albums released with only 2 weeks difference and those two are NOT avalaible in Music Club catalogue, so ALL their sales are counted in soundscan numbers).
Metallica :
Over 14.3 millions copies sold (Soundscan official number)
Certification by RIAA : 14xPlatinum (in December 2003)
Ropin' The Wind :
Over 9.6 millions copies sold (Soundscan official number)
Certification by RIAA : 14xPlatinum (in September 1998).

How can you explain that an album which are certified at the same level than an other more than 5 years before have sold no less than 4.7 millions less than this same album ??

Sting2, realise well that RIAA ARE MANY TIMES WRONG.

The RIAA is never wrong when it certifies an album. I don't know if you understand what an "audit" is or not? An audit is done of what the record company has sold of the album, regardless if the album was sold to a retailer, music club or a library. Soundscan was not as comprehensive in terms of its coverage of the market in the 1990s as it is today. In any event, it only covers retail outlets that have Soundscan scanners.

So your basing your totals on Soundscan that did not cover the entire market back in the 1990s, plus a single music club that has not always enjoyed 40% of the market that you claim since 1990. Contrast that with RIAA which does an audit of the Record Company which tracks 100% of all sales. The Record Company and the artist make money on the purchase of every album whether it was done by a retail outlet with soundscan, small college music shop with no soundscan, a music club, or a library. The RIAA can see precisely how much money went to the artist as well as to the label for every record that was sent out from the factory.

RIAA can only certify a new sales level when the artist management request a certification. That is why Celin Dione "All The Way.... A Decade of Song" is only certified at 6 million. Until the management request a new certification be done for the album, it will remain at 6 million. This is not an example of RIAA being wrong. The last time the album was certified, it had only sold enough to be certified at 6 million copies sold.

The difference between Garth Brooks Ropin the Wind and Metallica's Metallica is partly explained by the fact that the Ropin The Wind sold millions of copies at large department stores "Wallmart" "Target" etc. in the 1990s that had yet to incorperate soundscan scanners to record sales. Most of Metallica's albums were sold at the more traditional music stores at malls and other outlets, as opposed to the big department stores. I'm sure you have heard of Garth Brooks new deal to make a new album available for purchase only at Wallmart. At first that seems like an insane Idea, but then when you realize how many albums Garth Brooks sold through such big "Family" department stores in the 1990s, you understand the reason.

Once again, Soundscan can only record sales at places where scanners had been installed. RIAA can do an audit and trace the sell of EVERY album regardless if it was sold to a retailer with soundscan systems or a retailer without soundscan systems, Music Clubs, Library's, bookstores, even churches.

Soundscan can't do that. RIAA, IFPI, BPI, and CRIA can!



As far as the Backstreet Boys album is concerned, I want to be sure I add up the correct total and not just some inflated total based on alleged estimations from message boards.

The chart I have developed here will continue to have as its primary sources, RIAA, IFPI, CRIA, and any other reputable auditing firm or sales tracking firm. If I deviate from that formula and decide to add an album that does not have the certifications from these organizations, then I'm going to be extra careful about adding it.

Where is the RIAA or Soundscan equilavent website that shows Japan sales figures for Black And Blue as well as South Korea sales for Black and Blue?

 

[MJDangerous]

Originally posted by STING2 As far as the Backstreet Boys album is concerned, I want to be sure I add up the correct total and not just some inflated total based on alleged estimations from message boards.
[/B]

I'm laughting when I read this. You say that you need evidence to prove all numbers, without this you don't accept sales numbers, you speak only about numbers of IFPI, RIAA and CRIA because you don't know other organisations. Ok, where have you PROVE 30 millions sales figure for The Beatles in this case ? LOOL

RIAA = 10M
CRIA = 1M
IFPI = 8M

Where are the 11M others ? It's stupid to put a number so high than 30M for this album and refuse a 12M sales figure for an album which is at 9.5M in Canada/Europe/USA only with HUGE sales in Brazil & Asia and Platinum status in Australia & NZ.

Japan sales you can found them in Mario thread in UKmix, you have the official website, Oricon, but it is in Japanese ! Mario only translate. It's with this thread that U2 fans can give you all weeks U2 sales in this country, you have to accept this like you accept U2 numbers. What you can say, you are clearly NOT objective about Backstreet Boys sales, for ALL artists you add an average 33% sales for ROW, concerning Backstreet Boys you refuse official sales with evidence and accept nothing for ROW. But "artists" like Backstreet Boys have sold HUGE in the "third" world, it's sad but their sales are amazing in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Brazil etc... In % they sold much more in those countries than in Europe/USA/Canada, you have to know this.

South Korea sales are give in MIAK website : ht tp://ww w .miak.or.kr/stat/ pop_200102.htm
Compare Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys sales with others studio albums... In comparaison HTDAAB sold 7.555 copies in South Korea.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

^ On The Beatles topic, we've seen the number rising every year in official press releases and such. And the EMI site listed its worldwide sales for each year.......if you add them up, you'll get around 30,000,000.....nearly every Beatles release has sold double outside of the US........so the total isn't that surprising.

 

[fedeu2]

Although you have proven your point that B&B sales are in excess of 10 million copies worldwide, sting2 is right, we need to stick with official reports and not obscure estimations from fans and the such.

On the AB vs Dangerous topic, RIAA numbers are the ones to be taken into account ´cos they consider every single copy sold by a given album.
My guess is that in 8 years, AB should have sold at least and additional 500,000 copies. By the end of the decade, it will become 9 times platinum in the US.

I'm laughting when I read this. You say that you need evidence to prove all numbers, without this you don't accept sales numbers, you speak only about numbers of IFPI, RIAA and CRIA because you don't know other organisations. Ok, where have you PROVE 30 millions sales figure for The Beatles in this case ? LOOL

RIAA = 10M
CRIA = 1M
IFPI = 8M

Where are the 11M others ? It's stupid to put a number so high than 30M for this album and refuse a 12M sales figure for an album which is at 9.5M in Canada/Europe/USA only with HUGE sales in Brazil & Asia and Platinum status in Australia & NZ.

Japan sales you can found them in Mario thread in UKmix, you have the official website, Oricon, but it is in Japanese ! Mario only translate. It's with this thread that U2 fans can give you all weeks U2 sales in this country, you have to accept this like you accept U2 numbers. What you can say, you are clearly NOT objective about Backstreet Boys sales, for ALL artists you add an average 33% sales for ROW, concerning Backstreet Boys you refuse official sales with evidence and accept nothing for ROW. But "artists" like Backstreet Boys have sold HUGE in the "third" world, it's sad but their sales are amazing in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Brazil etc... In % they sold much more in those countries than in Europe/USA/Canada, you have to know this.

South Korea sales are give in MIAK website : ht tp://ww w .miak.or.kr/stat/ pop_200102.htm
Compare Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys sales with others studio albums... In comparaison HTDAAB sold 7.555 copies in South Korea.

 

[MJDangerous]

^ On The Beatles topic, we've seen the number rising every year in official press releases and such. And the EMI site listed its worldwide sales for each year.......if you add them up, you'll get around 30,000,000.....nearly every Beatles release has sold double outside of the US........so the total isn't that surprising.

I have never say that One doesn't sold 30M, but that no one have prove this number !
I have estimate WW sales for more than 2.000 albums and I think that in "real" sales taking ALL the world in account One have in fact sold around 30M. But I also think that with the same conditions Black & Blue have sold 13M WW, and I'm their last fan in the world !

Concerning "One" by the Beatles here why I think that they really sold not long than 30M WW :

One (2000) :
US : Over 10.000.000
Japan : 1.875.000
South Korea : 477.492 in 10 months only
Canada : 2.000.000 (certification at 1M)
Australia : 560.000
NZ : 180.000

Europe : 8.000.000 (+)
- UK : 2.450.000
- Germany : 1.500.000 debut 2001
- Italia : 1.000.000 in 2001
- France : 1.000.000 (certified at 600k, at 0k if you look to SNEP official website, one of them many "omissions")
- Autria : 120.000
- Spain : 500.000
- Finland : 65.594
- Switzerland : 150.000
- Netherland : 160.000
- Poland : 100.000
- Norway : 120.000

Album #1 in 34 countries.

Certifications after 2 months in other countries :
(Or = Gold)
Arabie Saoudite: Or
Baltic States (Lettonie): Or
Belgique: 2X Platine
Brésil: Platine
Chili: Or
Danemark: 4X Platine
Hong Kong: Or
Irlande: 12X Platine
Israel : Or
Malaysie: Platine
Mexique: Platine
Portugal: 2X Platine
Singapour: 2X Platine
Slovénie : Argent
Afrique du Sud: Platine
Suède: 2X Platine
Taiwan: Or
Thailande: Platine


Without all those "evidence" you have believe this 30M for One, why not for Black And Blue ? In my opinion I'm sure at 100% that it pass the 13M mark (which signify for me 13M stupid people in this world lol).

 

[STING2]

I'm laughting when I read this. You say that you need evidence to prove all numbers, without this you don't accept sales numbers, you speak only about numbers of IFPI, RIAA and CRIA because you don't know other organisations. Ok, where have you PROVE 30 millions sales figure for The Beatles in this case ? LOOL

RIAA = 10M
CRIA = 1M
IFPI = 8M

Where are the 11M others ? It's stupid to put a number so high than 30M for this album and refuse a 12M sales figure for an album which is at 9.5M in Canada/Europe/USA only with HUGE sales in Brazil & Asia and Platinum status in Australia & NZ.

Japan sales you can found them in Mario thread in UKmix, you have the official website, Oricon, but it is in Japanese ! Mario only translate. It's with this thread that U2 fans can give you all weeks U2 sales in this country, you have to accept this like you accept U2 numbers. What you can say, you are clearly NOT objective about Backstreet Boys sales, for ALL artists you add an average 33% sales for ROW, concerning Backstreet Boys you refuse official sales with evidence and accept nothing for ROW. But "artists" like Backstreet Boys have sold HUGE in the "third" world, it's sad but their sales are amazing in Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Brazil etc... In % they sold much more in those countries than in Europe/USA/Canada, you have to know this.

South Korea sales are give in MIAK website : ht tp://ww w .miak.or.kr/stat/ pop_200102.htm
Compare Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys sales with others studio albums... In comparaison HTDAAB sold 7.555 copies in South Korea.

If one is being objective about a sales list like this which is not always easy to compile, then they are not going to automatically jump the first time someone jumps in here and claims x number of copies sold in the following countries. I'm going to take my time with the information you have helped to provide and come up with a new sales total for "Black And Blue" which will be included on the 10 million plus list.

I do often extrapolate the sales figure in Europe which is 33% of the world in order to determine the total for the 33% of ROW. Strong sales in a place like Europe indicate a strong popularity among multiple countries as well as a management and record company team that has put a strong effort into international sales. Its not a perfect estimate I admit, but when other information is absent, I have found it to be fairly reliable.

The Backstreet Boys "Black And Blue" was not listed as having even sold 1 million copies in Europe, according to the IFPI. So naturally in such a formula, their total estimated non-US sales was below the 2 million mark. With the information you have provided, I can see that the album probably sold maybe as much as 1.5 million copies in Europe which would put the global total at around 11 million copies(8 million USA, 1.5 million Europe, 1.5 million ROW). But it may be higher considering the strong sales you listed for Japan and Korea. In any event, I want to take some more time to look at all these things and then I'll add them to the list.

The primary sources for the chart will remain RIAA, IFPI, CRIA as well as www.mediatraffic.de . No chart determining total global sales over a given period of time is going to be perfect, and this is just an attempt to give a good estimate. If and when another conflict occurs, I'll take a look at the alternative information and see if and adjustment is warrented. In this case, "Black And Blue" has indeed been found to be a 10 million plus seller and is not the total international flop we all thought it was, although it still has an overwhelming majority of its sales from the United States.

 

[MJDangerous]

On the AB vs Dangerous topic, RIAA numbers are the ones to be taken into account ´cos they consider every single copy sold by a given album.

Soundscan is 1000 times more accurate than RIAA. I agree with you when you say that AB sold at least 500k those 8 last years.
With the same soundscan conditions compare sales of two albums is really more accurate with soundscan numbers, because Soundscan concern SALES and not SHIPMENT like RIAA.
When RIAA certify an album at 10 millions it's sure at 100% that this album are already shipped at 10 millions AT LEAST.
Many times Music Companys don't pay certifications, other times they don't claim them, in other times they don't arrive to PROVE ALL their shipment (it's not so easy like this to show at the RIAA the send to retailers of 10 millions albums, for each of them !).
Soundscan scan only 40% of US sales in retailers at his beginning in 1991, so Dangerous, release in 1991 and which realise the major part of their sales during the promotion campaign at the start (this album sold only 15k by year in USA now) are obviously shipped over 7 millions in 2000. With a soundscan numbers of 6 millions for sales at 90% realise in 1991/1992 and with around 750k copies sold in Music Clubs, Dangerous have been shipped at much more than 7 millions in 2000 it's flagrant. Maybe Sony have not to succeed (or not try ?) in proving ALL Dangerous shipments.
This "case" is not the one, it's for this that RIAA are not always reliable.

 

[fedeu2]

Yes, you´re right, RIAA is all about shipments but in the vast majority of the cases, shipped copies are directly proportional to consumers sales and some time after an album release, say a couple of years, consumers sales are nearly the same as shipped copies (10% less perhaps).
Up to now, we have considered Black and Blue a flagrant exception to that rule (in the US), but with the numbers you have just provided, it seems that B&B also follows that rule.

Thanks for your feedback.

Just curious. are you a U2 fan yourself? I mean, like in U2 is your favourite band and not just another band you like.

Soundscan is 1000 times more accurate than RIAA. I agree with you when you say that AB sold at least 500k those 8 last years.
With the same soundscan conditions compare sales of two albums is really more accurate with soundscan numbers, because Soundscan concern SALES and not SHIPMENT like RIAA.
When RIAA certify an album at 10 millions it's sure at 100% that this album are already shipped at 10 millions AT LEAST.
Many times Music Companys don't pay certifications, other times they don't claim them, in other times they don't arrive to PROVE ALL their shipment (it's not so easy like this to show at the RIAA the send to retailers of 10 millions albums, for each of them !).
Soundscan scan only 40% of US sales in retailers at his beginning in 1991, so Dangerous, release in 1991 and which realise the major part of their sales during the promotion campaign at the start (this album sold only 15k by year in USA now) are obviously shipped over 7 millions in 2000. With a soundscan numbers of 6 millions for sales at 90% realise in 1991/1992 and with around 750k copies sold in Music Clubs, Dangerous have been shipped at much more than 7 millions in 2000 it's flagrant. Maybe Sony have not to succeed (or not try ?) in proving ALL Dangerous shipments.
This "case" is not the one, it's for this that RIAA are not always reliable.

 

[STING2]

Soundscan is 1000 times more accurate than RIAA. I agree with you when you say that AB sold at least 500k those 8 last years.
With the same soundscan conditions compare sales of two albums is really more accurate with soundscan numbers, because Soundscan concern SALES and not SHIPMENT like RIAA.
When RIAA certify an album at 10 millions it's sure at 100% that this album are already shipped at 10 millions AT LEAST.
Many times Music Companys don't pay certifications, other times they don't claim them, in other times they don't arrive to PROVE ALL their shipment (it's not so easy like this to show at the RIAA the send to retailers of 10 millions albums, for each of them !).
Soundscan scan only 40% of US sales in retailers at his beginning in 1991, so Dangerous, release in 1991 and which realise the major part of their sales during the promotion campaign at the start (this album sold only 15k by year in USA now) are obviously shipped other 7 millions in 2000. With a soundscan numbers of 6 millions for sales at 90% realise in 1991/1992 and with around 750k copies sold in Music Clubs, Dangerous have been shipped at much more than 7 millions in 2000 it's flagrant. Maybe Sony have not to succeed (or not try ?) in proving ALL Dangerous shipments.
This "case" is not the one, it's for this that RIAA are not always reliable.

Once again, RIAA does an official audit of a record company to determine total number of copies sold to retailers with soundscan, retailers without soundscan, music clubs, business's, schools, library's, churches and other organizations.

Soundscan can only count sales at retail outlets with soundscan equipment. RIAA covers all albums that leave the factory.

Every album shipped is an album sold by the artist for which the artist receives money for, regardless if it is sold at a retail outlet with soundscan equipment.

When Dangerous was certified for 7 million copies in 2000, it had not yet reach the 8 million level. It may have been at 7.9 million shipped, but it was not at the 8 million mark yet in 2000.

 

[fedeu2]

Sting2, what are the chances for Dangerous to have shipped nearly 8 million copies? I guess that if that had been the case, the record company would have just waited a bit before asking RIAA to re-certify Dangerous, right? I mean, it´s not like record companies do not have a clue as to how many copies a certain album has shipped.

Once again, RIAA does an official audit of a record company to determine total number of copies sold to retailers with soundscan, retailers without soundscan, music clubs, business's, schools, library's, churches and other organizations.

Soundscan can only count sales at retail outlets with soundscan equipment. RIAA covers all albums that leave the factory.

Every album shipped is an album sold by the artist for which the artist receives money for, regardless if it is sold at a retail outlet with soundscan equipment.

When Dangerous was certified for 7 million copies in 2000, it had not yet reach the 8 million level. It may have been at 7.9 million shipped, but it was not at the 8 million mark yet in 2000.

 

[MJDangerous]

Sting2, what are the chances for Dangerous to have shipped nearly 8 million copies? I guess that if that had been the case, the record company would have just waited a bit before asking RIAA to re-certify Dangerous, right? I mean, it´s not like record companies do not have a clue as to how many copies a certain album has shipped.

Since years Sony are not really interrested in certify Michael Jackson album sales. Bad outsold probably The Joshua Tree in 1987 + 1988 and now The Joshua Tree is 12xP when Bad is 8xP.
Off The Wall are at 7xP and it sold clearly over 1 million since, but nothing new in certification... Thriller is probably shipped at 29xP now but it pass at 27xP only recently.
For those albums it's because 1989-1990-1991 sales are "lose". In fact Epic, the Michael Jackson first records company don't update his certifications at his time and in 1991 MJ move to Sony Music.
It's like History, over 2.5M soundscan, over 1.5M in Music Club and only 7xP (double album). Number Ones is now scanned at 950k by soundscan, without Music Club sales and without all copies shipped but not sold and it stay Gold...
"Greatest Hits History Vol I" is scanned over 850k soundscan only again and it is not Platinum, not Gold too, nothing.

Sony are really not intereste in update Michael Jackson certification and do research to prove all his shipment. It's the same for all his catalogue.

Just curious. are you a U2 fan yourself? I mean, like in U2 is your favourite band and not just another band you like.

I'm "fan" of only one thing : Music. In consequence, I have many respect and admiration for U2, it's one of the most famous and talentuous band ever. I have 7 albums of U2 (AB, The Joshua Tree, War, ATYCLB, HTDAAB and the 2 best of).

 

[fedeu2]

Just one correction: JT is "just" 10xP in the US, even though it has already sold at least 11 million copies. It needs a new certification.
Don´t know about Bad though.

Since years Sony are not really interrested in certify Michael Jackson album sales. Bad outsold probably The Joshua Tree in 1987 + 1988 and now The Joshua Tree is 12xP when Bad is 8xP.
Off The Wall are at 7xP and it sold clearly over 1 million since, but nothing new in certification... Thriller is probably shipped at 29xP now but it pass at 27xP only recently.
For those albums it's because 1989-1990-1991 sales are "lose". In fact Epic, the Michael Jackson first records company don't update his certifications at his time and in 1991 MJ move to Sony Music.
It's like History, over 2.5M soundscan, over 1.5M in Music Club and only 7xP (double album). Number Ones is now scanned at 950k by soundscan, without Music Club sales and without all copies shipped but not sold and it stay Gold...
"Greatest Hits History Vol I" is scanned over 850k soundscan only again and it is not Platinum, not Gold too, nothing.

Sony are really not intereste in update Michael Jackson certification and do research to prove all his shipment. It's the same for all his catalogue.


I'm "fan" of only one thing : Music. In consequence, I have many respect and admiration for U2, it's one of the most famous and talentuous band ever. I have 7 albums of U2 (AB, The Joshua Tree, War, ATYCLB, HTDAAB and the 2 best of).

 

[MJDangerous]

Just one correction: JT is "just" 10xP in the US, even though it has already sold at least 11 million copies. It needs a new certification.
Don´t know about Bad though.

Oh yes I do a confusion, 12 millions are JT sales taking on account his certification.
Joshua Tree sold 2.8 millions in 14 years of soundscan, so 200k on average. 10xP certification was 10 years ago : 200k x 10 = 2M + 10xPlatinum = 12 millions. Without Music Club where JT are HUGE.