economic data needed!!!

[Emanuel]

Hello!

I'm a portuguese reporter in an economics newspaper, "Diário Económico".
I'm preparing a double-page article about U2 and I need data regarding the financial income from the tours and albums.


I need:

- total copies sold by each album (and the total value it represents)
- total number of persons who attended each tour (and the ticketing revenue)
- total expenditures in promoting a tour (by the band or the entity that represents them)
- total profit for the band from each tour

Can you help me in getting data like this, or give me the contact of someone (website or other) that collects this data.
Also an average number for the financial investment in charity by bono and the band would be nice!
Please help me out, i'm a big fan and struglled to get my superiors to give me this newspaper space.

U2 will be playing in Portugal soon, and I will see them for the first time in my live!


Best regards

Emanuel Costa

[STING2]

Originally posted by Emanuel
Hello!

I'm a portuguese reporter in an economics newspaper, "Diário Económico".
I'm preparing a double-page article about U2 and I need data regarding the financial income from the tours and albums.


I need:

- total copies sold by each album (and the total value it represents)
- total number of persons who attended each tour (and the ticketing revenue)
- total expenditures in promoting a tour (by the band or the entity that represents them)
- total profit for the band from each tour

Can you help me in getting data like this, or give me the contact of someone (website or other) that collects this data.
Also an average number for the financial investment in charity by bono and the band would be nice!
Please help me out, i'm a big fan and struglled to get my superiors to give me this newspaper space.

U2 will be playing in Portugal soon, and I will see them for the first time in my live!


Best regards

Emanuel Costa

Some of the information you are seeking is known and has been officially made public in some way, while the rest of the information is unknown and can only be estimated.

For the albums:

The exact number of copies sold by each album around the world is unknown, but there are very good estimates available. It is easier to get precise album sales data from individual countries or regions. The problem is that not all countries or regions have this data available which usually comes from a company that tracks and certifies album sales. The Record Company may have the information, but may choose not to disclose it or may inflate the numbers. The most accurate information comes from companies that do official audits of record company's album sales and certify how much an album has officially sold.

In the United States RIAA www.riaa.com certifies album sales and has a database that shows the album sales total for every album that has sold enough to be certified with a Gold, Platinum or Multi-Platinum award in the United States

For Canada, the CRIA does the same for sales in Canada. You can view their database at www.cria.ca

For the United Kingdom, the BPI certifies album sales. You can look at their database at www.bpi.co.uk.

The IFPI has been certfying album sales for albums that sell 1 million copies or more in Europe since 1996. Only albums released AFTER January 1994 are eligible for certification. For their database that covers the years 1994 to 2005, go to www.ifpi.org
NOTE: album sales from the United Kingdom are included in IFPI figures.

The IFPI(Europe), RIAA(United States), and CRIA(Canada) cover 70% of the entire music market worldwide. Because IFPI(Europe) covers several dozen countries, sales from IFPI can usually aid in helping estimate what sales are in the remaining 30% of the world not covered. But that is one way of estimating and not everyone would accept that as being the most accurate estimate.

The total value of each album sold would definitely be an estimate, and a far less accurate one. What price the album sells for can vary from region to region. Also, albums sold in 1980-1985-1990-2000 and up to 2005 will be sold at different prices as well, even if its the same album.

Since the early 1990s, the band has had a royalty rate of 25% per album. The bands royalty rate prior to that time is unknown.





"total number of persons who attended each tour (and the ticketing revenue"

It is much easier get these numbers for both attendance and the GROSS from the attendance, but once again, not all this information is known. For example, I can give you the exact attendance and GROSS for the entire 1997-1998 POPMART tour, but I can only give you a very rough estimate of the attendance and GROSS for the 1981-1982 October tour.

I've recorded a number of statistics on the tours as published by Amusement Business. Amusement Business publishes the top concert Grosses and Attendances for each week in Billboard Magazine. The Billboard website at www.billboard.com will post the top 10 Grossing concerts in the section of the website called "Top Concerts". 7 shows for U2's current Vertigo tour appear on the new list for this week which was just published today. Multiple shows in a single city have their Gross and Attendance numbers combined. That is why there are 4 listings for U2 this week instead of 7. Amsterdam had 3 shows and Milan had 2 shows, but their figures were combined into one total.

www.amusementbusiness.com use to have a database of concert statistics that went back to 1985, but you had to become a subscriber and pay to see the statistics. I do not know if they still do this or not.

www.billboard.com has an area on its website called billboardbiz.com. You may be able to get past boxscores for years or decades past for concerts there, but once again, you must pay to become a subscriber and I do not know how far their records will go back. The information they have origionally came from Amusement Business.

Its important to note that Amusement Business did not start to record all foreign(outside of the USA) figures until 1995. So concerts prior to 1995 outside of the United States will have to have their attendances and Gross's estimated.







"- total expenditures in promoting a tour (by the band or the entity that represents them)
- total profit for the band from each tour"


This information is very difficult to get and I only have touring cost figures for ZOO TV and POPMART. The Profit for the band is obviously GROSS minus touring cost. The ZOO TV figure I have for cost only covers the outdoor part of that tour. The GROSS I have for ZOO TV is an estimate, since shows outside the United States were not covered by Amusement Businness back then.

For POPMART though, I have the cost figure per day and the official GROSS of the entire tour.

Expenditures and profits for other tours would have to be very rough estimates unless someone else has official figures from a relevant source.




So I and others here can give you some precise exact figures from reliable sources for some of the information you seek. But much of the other information can only be estimated.

We could put something together on all the things you requested but you must realize that much of the information would be estimates or guesses instead of official numbers from reliable sources.

1.The tour statistics would be the easiest to do, and the estimates would be more reliable as well than the other information you need.

2. Official Album sales data can be found for some countries and regions, but the rest would have to be estimated some way unless the record company has posted and official figure.

3. expenditures for promoting a tour are largely unknown, with the exception of POPMART and part of ZOO TV. It would be very hard to estimate or guess cost of other tours.

4. The total Profit for the band from each tour is also unknown with the exception of POPMART. For other tours, it likely be more of an educated guess rather than a reliable estimate.



Let us know Emanual if you would like us to put some of the information you requested, together for you, but understand that some of it would simply be estimated information since official figures and statistics for some of the information is currently not available.



If anyone has official information from reliable sources that can plug in some of these area's that can only be estimated currently, please post it.

[Emanuel]

I know it's hard to get data, and even harder to get the data accurate,

but every number I put in my article will be referenced has "estimative", unless someone tells me it is precise...

Nevertheless, all data you can give me will be nice...

I can also refer "interference website" as a source...
or something different if you prefer...

Thank you very much,

Emanuel Costa

[mosquito]

Originally posted by STING2


We could put something together on all the things you requested but you must realize that much of the information would be estimates or guesses instead of official numbers from reliable sources.

1.The tour statistics would be the easiest to do, and the estimates would be more reliable as well than the other information you need.

Could you post the attendance figures of the north american shows of 1.987 and 1.992. Thank you.

[edge3]

Here are the attendances for all of U2's concerts as reported in Pimm Jal De La Parra's (god bless his soul) excellent U2 Live : A Concert Documentary book :

1980-85 : 1,340,000 (UF tour 578K US, 357K Europe, 126K Australia)
JT Tour : 3,236,970
Lovetown : 748,000
ZooTV : 5,400,000 ($153M gross)
PopMart : 3,935,936 ($171M gross)
Elevation : 2,155,845 ($143M gross)
Vertigo : 3,200,000 (minimum, should gross at least $300M)

Total attendance = *20,017,251

*This is just from U2's own concerts. If you include all the festivals & such like this figure would be closer to 25M.

As for U2's total wealth...well The Sunday Times Rich List (UK) had them at £440M earlier this year...so i think we can now say about £450M.

[Emanuel]

This is exactly what I wanted!
If anyone has different data, please post, unless they believe these numbers ar more correct!

As for the 450 million pounds, it's the band's estimate, right? their fortunes altogether should give a larger number, correct?

Now I only need the cd sales...

I knew this forum wolud be the best, i'm dealing with the right people!

thank you!

[edge3]

Total album sales : 130-150M (i reckon 140-145M)

Total single sales : not exactly sure but definitly 5M in the UK.

[Emanuel]

Can't get me the separate sales by each album?

revenues is even harder right?

[MJDangerous]

Originally posted by Emanuel
Can't get me the separate sales by each album?

revenues is even harder right?

Sales albums by albums (estimations, of course) :
(it's in French, if you don't understand everything, I can help you)

Boy (1981) :
USA : 1.500.000
Canada : 100.000
UK : 300.000
France : 150.000

Estimations Mondiales : 2.800.000


October (1981) :
USA : 1.200.000
UK : 500.000
France : 150.000

Estimations Mondiales : 2.700.000


War (1983) :
USA : 4.500.000
Canada : 400.000
UK : 800.000
Japon : 21.000
Allemagne : 250.000
Suisse : 25.000
Pays-Bas : 50.000
France : 800.000 (est.)

Estimations Mondiales : 9.200.000


Under A Blood Red Sky (1983) :
USA : 3.700.000
Canada : 300.000
UK : 1.200.000
Japon : 20.000
Allemagne : 500.000
France : 600.000

Estimations Mondiales : 8.000.000


The Unforgettable Fire (1984) :
USA : 3.500.000
Canada : 400.000
UK : 800.000
Japon : 25.000
Pays-Bas : 50.000
Italie : 200.000 (est.)
France : 250.000

Estimations Mondiales : 7.000.000


Wide Awake in America (1985) :
USA : 1.200.000
Canada : 150.000
UK : 150.000
Japon : 2.000
Pays-Bas : 50.000

Estimations Mondiales : 2.400.000


The Joshua Tree (1987) :
USA : 12.500.000
UK : 2.500.000
Canada : 1.600.000 (est.)
Japon : 56.000
Allemagne : 1.000.000
Autriche : 80.000
Finlande : 27.965
Pays-Bas : 500.000 (est.)
Espagne : 650.000 (est.)
Italie : 500.000 (est.)
France : 2.000.000 (est.)

Estimations Mondiales : 26.000.000


Rattle And Hum (1988) :
USA : 5.500.000
UK : 1.800.000
Canada : 700.000
Japon : 111.000
Allemagne : 500.000
Australie : 490.000
Suisse : 100.000
Finlande : 29.000
Pays-Bas : 200.000 (est.)
Espagne : 300.000 (est.)
Italie : 350.000 (est.)
France : 700.000

Estimations Mondiales : 13.000.000


Achtung Baby (1991) :
USA : 8.000.000
UK : 1.100.000
Canada : 1.100.000
Japon : 130.000
Allemagne : 500.000
Australie : 350.000
Suisse : 25.000
Finlande : 35.000
Pays-Bas : 250.000 (est.)
Italie : 600.000
France : 1.000.000

Estimations Mondiales : 15.500.000


Zooropa (1993) :
USA : 2.500.000
Canada : 400.000
UK : 600.000
Japon : 141.000
Autriche : 25.000
Italie : 250.000 (est.)
France : 400.000
Allemagne : 250.000 (est.)

Estimations Mondiales : 6.500.000


Pop (1997) :
USA : 1.600.000
Canada : 400.000
Japon : 197.000
Australie : 70.000

Europe : 2.000.000 (un peu plus)
- UK : 700.000
- Allemagne : 300.000
- Suisse : 50.000
- Autriche : 40.000
- Finlande : 33.000
- Pays-Bas : 50.000
- Pologne : 50.000
- Espagne : 1 semaine #1
- Italie : 420.000
- France : 300.000

Estimations Mondiales : 6.000.000


Best of 1980-1990 (1998) :
USA : 4.300.000
Canada : 800.000
Japon : 376.000
Australie : 350.000

Europe : 6.000.000
- UK : 1.700.000
- Allemagne : 500.000 (+)
- Suisse : 150.000
- Autriche : 80.000
- Finlande : 30.000
- Pays-Bas : 80.000 (beaucoup plus, 10 semaines #1)
- Espagne : 300.000
- Italie : 800.000
- France : 500.000 (+)
- Pologne : 50.000

Estimations Mondiales : 14.500.000


All That You Can't Leave Behind (2000) :
USA : 4.200.000
Canada : 500.000
Japon : 131.000
Australie : 280.000

Europe : 4.000.000
- UK : 1.084.000
- Allemagne : 500.000
- Suisse : 80.000
- Autriche : 40.000
- Finlande : 27.000
- Pays-Bas : 160.000
- Espagne : 300.000
- Italie : 600.000
- France : 460.000

Estimations Mondiales : 11.200.000


The Best of 1990-2000 (2002) :
USA : 1.300.000
Canada : 350.000
Japon : 107.000
Australie : 140.000
Brésil : 125.000

Europe : 2.000.000 (+)
- UK : 800.000
- Allemagne : 100.000
- Suisse : 80.000
- Autriche : 40.000
- Finlande : 15.000
- Pays-Bas : 80.000
- Pologne : 50.000
- Espagne : 100.000
- France : 200.000
- Italie : 500.000

Estimations Mondiales : 5.300.000


How To Distmantle An Atomic Bomb (2004) :

Estimations Mondiales : 8.400.000 (country by country sales in my Website)

Ventes totales mondiales : 137.300.000 albums vendus.

[Emanuel]

fabulous!!!

you guys are the best...

and I will tell you a little secret, i'm going ro acomplish to of my biggest dreams:

- see a U2 concert (unfortunately I was only 14 when they came to Portugal last time... and lived very far from lisbon
- the only other concert I wished I could see (and saw it last summer) was Pixies...

- writing about U2 (as a jounalist) is my second dream, it will come true next week...

the last dream is harder, it's an private interview with bono..

Does anyone have is number?

The last thing I need is

[edge3]

I think U2 make about £3 on every album sold which is one of the highest royalty rates in the industry - i think this is because Ireland has one of the lowest tax rates in Europe / the world (or something).

...anyway here's my estimates for sales of each U2 album to date :

Boy - 3M
October - 3M
War - 8M
UABRS - 8M
UF - 8M
WAIA - 2M
JT - 25M
R&H - 14M
AB - 16M
Zooropa - 7M
Pop - 6M
Best of 80-90 - 15M
ATYCLB - 12M
Best of 90-00 - 5M
HTDAAB - 9M
Total = 141M

[Emanuel]

Well,

If none of you Is sure on his numbers, I will go for the average:

Boy - 2,8 - 3M
October - 2,7 - 3M
War - 8 - 9,2 M
UABRS - 8M
UF - 7 - 8M
WAIA - 2 - 2,4M
JT - 25 - 26 M
R&H - 13 - 14 M
AB - 15,5 - 16M
Zooropa - 6,5 - 7M
Pop - 6M
Best of 80-90 - 14,5 - 15M
ATYCLB - 11,2 - 12M
Best of 90-00 - 5 - 5,3 M
HTDAAB - 8,4 - 9M

Total - 135,6 M - 143,9 M

Quite good ain't it?

[edge3]

So that would be 139,750,000 then...fair enough idea i'spose.

[solar]

It goes something like this

Boy - 3M
October - 3M
War - 8M
UABRS - 8M
UF - 8M
WAIA - 2M
JT - 27M
R&H - 14M
AB - 18M
Zooropa - 7M
Pop - 6M
Best of 80-90 - 15M
ATYCLB - 12M
Best of 90-00 - 6M
HTDAAB - 9M

Boy - 3M
October - 3M
War - 8M
UABRS - 8M
TUF - 8M
WAIA - 3M
JT - 27M
R&H - 13M
AB - 17M
Zooropa - 7M
Pop 6M
80-90 - 16M
ATYCLB - 12M
90-00 - 6M
HTDAAB - 9M

Total - 146M

[Emanuel]

this getting confusing....

But i think i'll stick with the first numbers... unless someone has a good hint on the "true numbers"...

the first numbers are a bit understated, JT has sold 27M, AB has sold 17M, and 80-90 has sold 16M.

A good total approxiamate is 140-145 Million Albums sold worldwide

[Emanuel]

We've started in 139 millions, now we are at 146, that's a major leap!...

Do you think I should use these last numbers?

[Emanuel]

Need a confirmation on these numbers on U2's career:

53 tours (or legs of tours)
1355 shows
1008 setlists
783 locations
19483 played songs

These figures are probably good estimates, but I don't know when they end...

Does anybody have a up to date estimate on these kind of figures?

Thank you?

[Popmartijn]

Originally posted by Emanuel
We've started in 139 millions, now we are at 146, that's a major leap!...

Do you think I should use these last numbers?

Actually, it isn't a major leap. The difference is about 5%, which you can easy get through all these estimates and rounding errors.
I would suggest to use a figure of 140 million records sold. It's within those margins and a nice, round number (always looking good in an article).