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Old 03-15-2006, 06:51 AM   #21
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:51 PM   #22
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Billboard's Hot 100 chart keeps changing. Decades ago, it reflected jukebox play!

Sadly, for "Vertigo", the song didn't chart higher as Billboard didn't count legal downloads (when they did, "Vertigo", which was already dropping into the lower half of the chart, rose by over 20 spots!). Had Billboard counted downloads, I have a feeling "Vertigo" would have been a Top 10 hit.

"Beautiful Day" - as all other post 1998 singles - suffered because U2's label stopped releasing singles in the U.S. While "Discotheque" went Gold, apparently the other singles didn't fair as well from "Pop". The label claimed it wasn't worth the cost - hence no singles. Without any sort of CD or legal download sales to help, the songs had to chart on airplay alone.

Billboard's formula keeps changing. For a while, airplay didn't mean much, then it meant a TON, now it's back down a bit. They never reveal the exact formula, but give hints. Nonetheless, I feel that's it's not always fair to compare eras - even years - because Billboard changes the rules. I understand the need to change (after all, jukeboxes mean nothing now and downloads mean tons), but given how ridiculously popular "Beautiful Day" and "Vertigo" were, I don't think their respective chart positions are truly accurate. Had there been a CD single or downloads, both songs easily would have charted in the Top 20, if not Top 10.

That said, as another pointed out, it seems U2 pushes the first single and then that's it. "Pop" generated three top 60 hits, two in the Top 30 and one in the Top 10! For a "flop" of an album, its singles did far better than anything from ATYCLB or HTDAAB. This is because all those songs had CD singles, which helped the songs chart better. But those songs also received a good amount of airplay, which new U2 doesn't. Given the massive sales U2 has, the ridiculously popular tours, the numerous awards and the fact that any song promoted on radio is a hit, it always surprises me that radio stations don't play more U2. Oh well.

At least now we can look forward to a potential Top 10 hit from a new album (or new U2 song)!
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Old 03-15-2006, 09:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by doctorwho
Billboard's Hot 100 chart keeps changing. Decades ago, it reflected jukebox play!

Sadly, for "Vertigo", the song didn't chart higher as Billboard didn't count legal downloads (when they did, "Vertigo", which was already dropping into the lower half of the chart, rose by over 20 spots!). Had Billboard counted downloads, I have a feeling "Vertigo" would have been a Top 10 hit.

"Beautiful Day" - as all other post 1998 singles - suffered because U2's label stopped releasing singles in the U.S. While "Discotheque" went Gold, apparently the other singles didn't fair as well from "Pop". The label claimed it wasn't worth the cost - hence no singles. Without any sort of CD or legal download sales to help, the songs had to chart on airplay alone.

Billboard's formula keeps changing. For a while, airplay didn't mean much, then it meant a TON, now it's back down a bit. They never reveal the exact formula, but give hints. Nonetheless, I feel that's it's not always fair to compare eras - even years - because Billboard changes the rules. I understand the need to change (after all, jukeboxes mean nothing now and downloads mean tons), but given how ridiculously popular "Beautiful Day" and "Vertigo" were, I don't think their respective chart positions are truly accurate. Had there been a CD single or downloads, both songs easily would have charted in the Top 20, if not Top 10.

That said, as another pointed out, it seems U2 pushes the first single and then that's it. "Pop" generated three top 60 hits, two in the Top 30 and one in the Top 10! For a "flop" of an album, its singles did far better than anything from ATYCLB or HTDAAB. This is because all those songs had CD singles, which helped the songs chart better. But those songs also received a good amount of airplay, which new U2 doesn't. Given the massive sales U2 has, the ridiculously popular tours, the numerous awards and the fact that any song promoted on radio is a hit, it always surprises me that radio stations don't play more U2. Oh well.

At least now we can look forward to a potential Top 10 hit from a new album (or new U2 song)!
The formula just prior to the inclusion of download sales data did not really count sales data at all. It was possible a year and a half ago to hit #1 on the HOT 100 with just airplay and no single sales at all. Single sales were a very marginal and pratically irrelevant factor in chart postion on the HOT 100 from 2000 to the end of 2004. Thats why U2 did not release singles in the USA. Prior to this, chart position was based on both sales and airplay equally. That was the system as late as 1997. The system changed sometime between 1998 and 2000 when the HOT 100 essentially became the HOT 100 Airplay chart.

That system made sense because no one was buying physical singles and fewer artist were releasing them in the USA. Now with the popularity of I-tunes, single song downloads, I believe a system resembling the old formula has returned.

I think the important chart to really watch though is the Top 75 Airplay monitor chart which is the airplay chart used for the HOT 100. Radio airplay is still the biggest determining factor in terms of album sales and now single downloads. Video play of new video's at normal hours of the day happens so rarely that it could be argued an artist could skip making a video since their impact is so limited now in the USA. Touring will always bring an increase in sales, but in the way a top 10 radio airplay hit can.
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Old 03-16-2006, 08:49 AM   #24
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Here's some more info. regarding the Hot 100.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Hot_100
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Old 03-16-2006, 10:39 AM   #25
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why is there a bon jovi song (Who Says You Can't Go Home) at #32 on the hot 100?

it isnt even their first single off current album, yet is doing just as well on the hot 100 as Vertigo did!
i hadnt even heard of the song, it probably wont even make the charts anywhere else.
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Old 03-21-2006, 01:35 AM   #26
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It won't chart in foreign countries, its getting alot of country airplay
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Old 03-21-2006, 10:38 PM   #27
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The song is #6 on Hot Country Tracks and has been gaining airplay in the last 2 or 3 months. It's hard to believe, but Who Says You Can't Go Home is Bon Jovi's highest charting song in over a decade. The song was #13 in national airplay on the most recent media guide chart. Anyway, back to U2...

Ok someone please clarify, I am a little confused:

1. Is the UK Top 40 chart based on purely sales, or is airplay a factor?

2. When did the Billboard Hot 100 start including digital downloads in determining chart position?
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:33 AM   #28
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UK Chart is sales only, including downloads. But downloads only count once the physical single is released.

Hot 100 started including downloads around february 2005 I think.
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Old 03-22-2006, 08:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


The formula just prior to the inclusion of download sales data did not really count sales data at all. It was possible a year and a half ago to hit #1 on the HOT 100 with just airplay and no single sales at all. Single sales were a very marginal and pratically irrelevant factor in chart postion on the HOT 100 from 2000 to the end of 2004. Thats why U2 did not release singles in the USA. Prior to this, chart position was based on both sales and airplay equally. That was the system as late as 1997. The system changed sometime between 1998 and 2000 when the HOT 100 essentially became the HOT 100 Airplay chart.

That system made sense because no one was buying physical singles and fewer artist were releasing them in the USA. Now with the popularity of I-tunes, single song downloads, I believe a system resembling the old formula has returned.

I think the important chart to really watch though is the Top 75 Airplay monitor chart which is the airplay chart used for the HOT 100. Radio airplay is still the biggest determining factor in terms of album sales and now single downloads. Video play of new video's at normal hours of the day happens so rarely that it could be argued an artist could skip making a video since their impact is so limited now in the USA. Touring will always bring an increase in sales, but in the way a top 10 radio airplay hit can.
That's not completely true Sting2.

Remember the American Idol (AI) kids. The winner of each season would release a single (as would the second place contestant). The sales of that single - due to the massive exposure of AI - would be tremendous. While U2 and many other artists don't release CD singles, they still are out there in the U.S. - and these AI kids have some of the best CD single sales ever! The massive amounts of sales the first few weeks would be enough to push the song to #1 on the Hot 100 charts - even though airplay was heavily factored.

So while a song could and would reach #1 based on airplay alone, and while Billboard for a while tremendously discounted sales (as I actually wrote in my first post), sales never disappeared. If an artist had huge CD single sales (and we're talking sales of over 100,000 copies in a week - sometimes more like 200-400K!), even if the airplay wasn't there yet, the sales would be enough.

Now with iTunes and other sources, sales certainly play a big role. Coldplay's first single zoomed up to #8 on the charts based on sales alone - then dropped. Only later, after airplay finally kicked in did the song rise again on the charts. I would imagine that U2's next single might finally break into the Top 10 (as "Beautiful Day" and "Vertigo" should have done) because they'll have sales to help this time.
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Old 03-25-2006, 05:55 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by 04072511
Please #103
Can anyone else verify this? Just wondering.
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Old 03-25-2006, 11:14 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by doctorwho


That's not completely true Sting2.

Remember the American Idol (AI) kids. The winner of each season would release a single (as would the second place contestant). The sales of that single - due to the massive exposure of AI - would be tremendous. While U2 and many other artists don't release CD singles, they still are out there in the U.S. - and these AI kids have some of the best CD single sales ever! The massive amounts of sales the first few weeks would be enough to push the song to #1 on the Hot 100 charts - even though airplay was heavily factored.

So while a song could and would reach #1 based on airplay alone, and while Billboard for a while tremendously discounted sales (as I actually wrote in my first post), sales never disappeared. If an artist had huge CD single sales (and we're talking sales of over 100,000 copies in a week - sometimes more like 200-400K!), even if the airplay wasn't there yet, the sales would be enough.

Now with iTunes and other sources, sales certainly play a big role. Coldplay's first single zoomed up to #8 on the charts based on sales alone - then dropped. Only later, after airplay finally kicked in did the song rise again on the charts. I would imagine that U2's next single might finally break into the Top 10 (as "Beautiful Day" and "Vertigo" should have done) because they'll have sales to help this time.
Before I-tunes and downloads, the AI Kids would have gone to #1 with or without single sales given the massive amount of airplay they received. Single sales in the early part of this decade were simply irrelevant. The HOT 100 chart noted which songs had a retail single or not, and the chart would be full of all these songs that did not have a single you could buy. When a song with no single jumps into the top 10 ahead of songs that do have singles, it sums up how relevant single sales were at the time in determining chart position on the HOT 100.

From 2000 to 2004, I don't know any artist that cracked the top 10 of the HOT 100 on sales alone.

U2 will probably make the top 10 with their next single with the new rules and climate that has downloading single songs as opposed to buying albums the new craze. But, in terms of album sales, it will be more relevant to pay attention to the airplay only chart since the level of radio airplay will have the biggest impact on album sales beyond the hardcore fanbase.
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:45 PM   #32
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How did Original of the species do on the Billboard top 100 chart?


So do you think it would be wise for U2 to start having CD singles in US again, or should they simply promote the post-first singles with more radio/video airplay? Or should they abandon both in light of the downloading?
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Old 03-31-2006, 06:30 PM   #33
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How did Original of the species do on the Billboard top 100 chart?
Absolutely nothing. It almost made the Adult Top 40 at about 41. That's it. It was a top 10 track on Triple-A radio which is not measured by Billboard, but pretty much every U2 song is a top 10 Triple-A hit. Nowhere close to the Billboard Top 100.
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Old 04-08-2006, 05:33 PM   #34
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What exactly is the Triple A chart and why isn't it counted on the Billboard 100?
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