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Old 12-04-2009, 09:05 AM   #201
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Hard to drive carefully when a raging Norwegian is assaulting the vehicle with a fairway wood.
Is there an endorsement deal in Elin's future?
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:33 AM   #202
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Winter rules = lift, clean and replace...think Tiger gets a mulligan for this???
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:55 AM   #203
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Gambling is illegal at Bushwood. And I never slice.
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Old 12-04-2009, 01:54 PM   #204
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I'm fairly certain that a home can't be "wrecked" unless a resident of said home allows it to be, and that the onus to stay faithful to the marriage is on the one who actually took the wedding vows.
Thank you for stating the obvious.

These women (however many of them) didn't wreck Tiger's home or marriage; if it ends up wrecked, it's because he did it. Unless somebody here wants to argue that they in fact had affairs with him without his consent.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:33 PM   #205
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:44 PM   #206
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Thank you for stating the obvious.

These women (however many of them) didn't wreck Tiger's home or marriage; if it ends up wrecked, it's because he did it.
Agreed. I don't care if she's the most stunning woman in the world promising you everything you ever wanted: you took vows that are supposed to be for life. If you break those vows, it is entirely your fault.

Besides, this whole "homewrecker" thing suggests that men are incapable of turning down sexual advances. "I really didn't want to have sex with her, but she made me!"*








*This reminds me of an FYM thread from a few years ago...
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:50 PM   #207
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I think the last few posters have made some very good points and have caused me to not necessarily reduce my repulsion for women like Rachel Urchitel, but I have to remember that in the end, every adult makes their own decisions in consensual sex, that's why it's called consensual sex between two adults. Tiger gets no free pass, if he did in fact sleep with these women. No further if ands or buts from me, really. The lot of them all deserve each other if everything we're hearing is true.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:10 PM   #208
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This article cracks me up. She's mad at Tiger for being with women other than her?!

Alleged Tiger Mistress Angry About His Other Women
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:31 PM   #209
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No offense, but no indeed not. You agree with Jesper Parnevik when he says that Elin should take a heavier club to assault Tiger with? Your response was in agreement with a basically irrelevant post because noone is giving Tiger a free pass, and in truth Rachel Urchitel and this other waitress are, in fact, career homewrecking whores who mainly screw married men and then blab about it, I can only imagine, in hopes of either stealing him away when the wife dumps him or making a load of cash. I don't know anyone in this thread, including myself, who is excusing Tiger or saying that he "just" went out to get some ass.
Yes indeed yes-it IS a double standard, so that was not agreeing with an "irrelevant" post. That post about a double standard was one of the most relevant, in my opinion. Not in yours, but that doesn't make me wrong.Not to mention that many people would be questioning Elin as a mother. Where is the questioning of Tiger as a father?

I agree with Parnevik's statements about feeling badly about introducing Elin to Tiger and that he thought Tiger was a better person than that (and for having the guts and decency to say it publicly). You honestly think his statement about using a heavier club was something other than hyperbole? I doubt that he condones violence, though he might want to take a swing at Tiger at this point. You'd have to ask him. I don't condone violence at all-but I do understand perfectly where Elin's anger is coming from. And where Jesper's anger is coming from.

Tiger Woods is a homewrecking whore. The point has already been made here. Doesn't mean I condone what his "girlfriends" did but he is all the same. Same standard, not a double one.
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:07 PM   #210
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Let's not pretend the double standard doesn't cut both ways. When a man cheats, he's a sex crazed idiot that doesn't care about anyone but himself. When a woman cheats it's because her needs weren't being met in the relationship. Cause and effect in a relationship is rarely that simple though. Only a fool would think they could make judgements about a relationship of which they no inside knowledge.

In the end, I don't feel bad for any of the cheaters involved in this story. Tiger made his bed and must lie in it. The women chose to sleep with a married man and make that public and now they're being called out for it. I hope for the children's sake, Tiger and his wife can work this out and save their mariage.
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:16 PM   #211
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Agreed. I don't care if she's the most stunning woman in the world promising you everything you ever wanted: you took vows that are supposed to be for life. If you break those vows, it is entirely your fault.


I agree and disagree with this. I don't think there is any excuse to cheat, but I believe there is often reasons why people (men and women) do.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:33 PM   #212
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I agree and disagree with this. I don't think there is any excuse to cheat, but I believe there is often reasons why people (men and women) do.
Yeah, and we have no way to know why he felt compelled to cheat on his wife (over and over)and Mother of his children, but it must be her fault.
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:12 PM   #213
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I hope for the children's sake, Tiger and his wife can work this out and save their marriage.
If reports are to be believed he/they are trying to work it out with money; reworking the pre-nuptial agreement

I'd be shocked it they stay married.
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Old 12-06-2009, 05:34 AM   #214
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Yeah, and we have no way to know why he felt compelled to cheat on his wife (over and over)and Mother of his children, but it must be her fault.
Sue, seeing that you failed to understand 3 of my posts today, I'm going to assume it's an issue of reading comprehension.
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:26 AM   #215
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I agree and disagree with this. I don't think there is any excuse to cheat, but I believe there is often reasons why people (men and women) do.
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Yeah, and we have no way to know why he felt compelled to cheat on his wife (over and over)and Mother of his children, but it must be her fault.
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Sue, seeing that you failed to understand 3 of my posts today, I'm going to assume it's an issue of reading comprehension.
I don't really understand what you're saying here, either. You both agree and disagree with Dieman's statement, there is no excuse for cheating, but people cheat for reasons?

Care to clarify?

This is getting very FYMy.
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:55 AM   #216
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That post about a double standard was one of the most relevant, in my opinion. Not in yours, but that doesn't make me wrong.
It not relevant to the women in this situation. Maybe to other women who are victimized, but not this one.

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Not to mention that many people would be questioning Elin as a mother. Where is the questioning of Tiger as a father?
I certainly would hope people don't question Elin's capability as a mother, especially if she stays.

With reference to whether or not having an affair should call into question a man's capability as a father: thankfully, divorce courts now see right through this and no longer allow jilted ex-wives the opportunity to stick it to their husbands with denial of access to the kids because the man cheated. This is between the adults unless the children are being abused in some way.

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Tiger Woods is a homewrecking whore. The point has already been made here. Doesn't mean I condone what his "girlfriends" did but he is all the same. Same standard, not a double one.
I never said Tiger wasn't a homewrecking whore. But to say that the women involved IN THIS SITUATION are also not homewrecking whores is incredibly naive and flat out wrong. They are, they knew exactly what they were up to, and Rachel Urchitel has spent the last few years doing nothing but (or, also ) rich famous married men.

The difference between Tiger being a homewrecking whore and Rachel Urchitel being one is that there's a fair (50/50?) chance that Tiger will use this as an opportunity to turn himself around and save his family. Therefore he ceases to be a homewrecking whore if he never cheats again. Rachel Urchitel? If I go by her very and self-publicized track record, she'll find herself right in the middle of someone else's marriage in no time flat.
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:52 AM   #217
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But Gabe, the point is that in the case of a potential affair, who is ultimately responsible for saying "no, I want to protect the marriage, and the way to do that is to be faithful and not engage in an affair?"

To take the Woods' situation as an example, I'd say that it rests squarely on Tiger's shoulders. I don't think that the mistress has any more obligation to maintain their marriage than do you or I, fairly disinterested bystanders who are hearing this second hand, through the media. She didn't make a promise to Elin, Tiger did.

I think it's kind of silly to blame this Rachel person. In the case of Woods, I'm sure he has tons of opportunities to cheat, and if it wasn't her/them (there have been two mistresses come out of the woodwork, right? I honestly haven't been following it that closely...and, I'm sure there are probably even more of Tiger's mistresses out there who would probably rather keep it a private matter), then it would have been someone else.

I honestly think that the whole "woman as temptress" thing dates back to Adam and Eve, and is rooted in sexism. I also think that while blaming the 3rd party in an affair is unfair, it does have some superficial usefulness to the two in the marriage. It helps the wronged party to maintain the illusion that the cheater isn't an entirely horrible person, that their straying wasn't all their fault, and this enables them to believe that the cheating was a one time thing, to begin to forgive, and to perhaps repair the relationship. It also helps the cheater to maintain their self esteem, and view themselves as being a good person who was led astray by a temptress (or the male equivalent, in the case of a female cheater), instead of saying "I'm a cheater, I suck," and to really take a hard look at themselves to see what made them do what they did.

I think if you go through life with the attitude that others are going to respect the boundaries of your marriage, you're probably in for a world of trouble. Temptation will always be out there, and unless you deal with the real reasons for cheating - your flaws, and the flaws of the relationship - then you're likely to repeat the behaviour.
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:24 AM   #218
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I certainly would hope people don't question Elin's capability as a mother, especially if she stays.
If she stays just for the money, people will absolutely question her. Do people actually still believe "staying together for the kids" is always the best option

ETA: Just to clarify, I, in no way, hold Elin responsible for her husbands infidelity. I do not envy her position now as she is making decisions not only for herself but for her children.
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:42 AM   #219
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VP I understand your points, and I'm not saying that the blame doesn't rest with him. I also don't think he's portraying himself as a 'good guy who got lured by a wicked temptress', and neither am I. I guess it might be thought that I was implying that with the 'vulnerable' comment but when I said that I didn't mean it in a sexist manner at all, women who are having troubled marriages are equally vulnerable to some guy coming along just as much as a man could be vulnerable. The difference between men and women (to allow your earlier generalization) might sometimes be in the type of vulnerability ie sex vs emotional, etc...

But...you say, if it wasn't her, it would be someone else..well that's exactly my point! There are a certain (however small subset) percentage of women out there who will not blink an eye at having sex with a married man. And some, like Rachel Urchitel clearly, who actively seek them out/find them a more attractive target. Which begs the question, do they not bear a general responsibility to womankind in a larger sense (assuming they'd also like to be someday married to faithful husbands) also for enabling this type of cheating? If every woman would absolutely not have sex with a married man, how would he cheat (in the manner Tiger did ie with them knowing he was married). He'd have to lie about being married, which is not even remotely close to the type of situation we're discussing.. and for someone like Tiger, would that have even been possible?
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:47 AM   #220
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I think it's possible to both think that the women are doing something wrong by sleeping with a married man, and that the women have no responsibility to uphold the married man's marriage vows.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.
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