The Official Cricket '07/'08 thread!!

[cobl04]

Hmm, that's pretty true actually. Although I agree it can be boring to watch sometimes. The games where the bowlers aren't getting wickets and the bastmen aren't scoring are dreadful.

[Axver]

Originally posted by intedomine
Well, form in ODI cricket is never really a good means of backing a winner.

Because cricket is more of an individual sport than a team sport, if all the individual batsmen have a bad day, than the team will fail. That's merely what happened in that bore of a tri-series we had out here with Nz and POM.

Yeah, that's a fair call. I've maintained for a while now that the problem with the New Zealand cricket team is not a lack of talent, but a lack of consistency. On a day where everyone performs to the peak of their ability, New Zealand's cricket team is as good as any out there - after all, we are the only country to have ever beaten Australia by 10 wickets. But it's rare to find a game where both the batters and bowlers fire, rarer still for the team to maintain that consistency over the length of a tournament, and rarest (re: hasn't happened yet!) for the tournament in question to be the World Cup.

If New Zealand could maintain the consistency that the Australian team has usually had over the last decade or so, we would have converted the high we got from destroying the visiting Aussie team into a World Cup victory. But we don't have that consistency, and for that reason, I do not believe New Zealand will ever win the World Cup. We'd need a team of Martin Crowes, Sir Richard Hadlees, and Daniel Vettoris led by a Stephen Fleming to do that.

[cobl04]

For sure.

How long ago was that 10 wicket loss?

I love Daniel Vettori. Gun.

[Axver]

Originally posted by COBL_04
How long ago was that 10 wicket loss?

I love Daniel Vettori. Gun.

The 10 wicket win was earlier this year! Second-proudest I've ever been of the Black Caps. Proudest was when I saw them come from behind to beat South Africa at the 'Gabba in ~2001. I had my head in my hands at the 30th over, then Chris Cairns hit the tonne of a lifetime. The entire carriage of the train back to the Gold Coast - yes, Gold Coast, Queensland - sung the Kiwi anthem apart from two South African guys opposite me who looked like they wanted to throw themselves under the train!

I miss Chris Cairns so much. What a batter. But Vettori is my favourite cricketer of all time, and a worthy successor as captain to Fleming. Danny's a fucking legend.

[intedomine]

Originally posted by Axver

I do not believe New Zealand will ever win the World Cup. We'd need a team of Martin Crowes, Sir Richard Hadlees, and Daniel Vettoris led by a Stephen Fleming to do that.

I reckon New Zealand have as good a chance as any other of the elite 8 cricketing nations at winning a ICC World Cup, but again, your consistency has been severely lacking in recent years.

But it's ODI cricket, Wierd shit happens (ie. Kenya making '03 Semi Finals. Ireland defeating Pakistan in '07, Bangers defeating Australia in '05.)

New Zealand can consider themselves doomed if they don't resurrect the career of Chris Zinzan Harris.

And as brilliant as Carins was when he went the hack (same league as Gilchrist & Klusener), his bowling ability significantly deteriorated towards the end of his career.

[Axver]

Originally posted by intedomine
I reckon New Zealand have as good a chance as any other of the elite 8 cricketing nations at winning a ICC World Cup, but again, your consistency has been severely lacking in recent years.

Lacking in recent years? I don't think New Zealand cricket has ever had consistency! Actually, no, I take that back. Before the 1950s, we were consistent: consistent losers. It took us over 2 decades to win a bloody test match! Kiwi cricket has come a long way, but not far enough. Oh well, at least we've made the World Cup semis more often than not.

And ugh, don't remind me of Kenya. If New Zealand hadn't forfeited their match against Kenya, that would have been us in the semi-finals instead. What were the Black Caps thinking?!

I think the important thing for New Zealand over the next two years is to develop a bit of depth. We can usually field a world class XI with a 12th man, sometimes a 13th, and in good years a 14th. But we don't truly have great depth. Our series in last Dec/Jan against Sri Lanka illustrated that - if we have half the team out for various reasons, we're woeful even in games we should win. So before the next World Cup - or perhaps, more long term, before the 2015 World Cup - we need to focus on having more solid reserves.

And I think keeping Shane Bond healthy is even more essential than Chris Harris, as brilliant as Harris is. Shane Bond is the best bowler in the world with the possible exception of Vettori. I certainly don't see any Australians who could match him, McGrath included. Hard to believe that New Zealand hasn't had more success with such a lethal bowling attack. Our batting attack's inconsistency lets us down so bloody often.

[Tania]

Ah, the start of the cricket season!!!

Warmer days, BBQs, racing in from outside, another room or whereever to watch the replay of someone getting out. Falling asleep in front of the telly as another batsman defends his wicket.

Will miss Ooh-Ah who was a brilliant bowler.

Have to agree about the Waugh brothers.

Axver - poor old NZ You can't have it all - All Blacks anybody???

[cobl04]

Shane Bond the best bowler in the world? With the possible exception of Vettori? Sorry can't agree on that one. Bond is terrific, and definitely up there when fit and firing, but not the best. At the moment there is no doubt that belongs to Murali. One of the few bowlers who you can almost trust to deliver a wicket. And Vettori's very good, but not possibly the best bowler, not even close. Niether of them have passed the 500 mark!

Good to see you here Tania. The start of cricket season is great for all those reasons you just mentioned. Warm days and barbies especially.

[TheQuiet1]

Originally posted by COBL_04

This thread is phailing.

I'll help you out with a post. (well, a rant)

I honestly thought that after a fairy tale start this season (especially given the way we dodged relegation last year by the skin of our teeth) maybe, just maybe Yorkshire might actually win the County Championship but lately we just seem happy to throw it all away. WTF happened at Sussex for crying out loud?! If we had to win one match it was THAT one and we just hand it to them on a plate

[Axver]

Originally posted by COBL_04
Shane Bond the best bowler in the world? With the possible exception of Vettori? Sorry can't agree on that one. Bond is terrific, and definitely up there when fit and firing, but not the best. At the moment there is no doubt that belongs to Murali. One of the few bowlers who you can almost trust to deliver a wicket. And Vettori's very good, but not possibly the best bowler, not even close. Niether of them have passed the 500 mark!

OK, I'll concede Murali is a better spinner than Vettori, but there's no way he's better than Shane Bond (though it is mightily hard to really compare a pace bowler to a spinner). Three things to consider:

1. Shane Bond's bowling average is considerably superior. His average is 19.32; Murali's is 22.68.
2. Shane Bond, in terms of amount of deliveries, is the fastest person to ever take 100 wickets. (In terms of amount of games, he was one behind Saqlain Mushtaq.)
3. His action is a hell of a lot less controversial than our "chucker" friend! (No, I don't think Murali's a chucker. I'm surprised you don't though, as almost every Australian I know does.)

And who cares if he's taken 500+ wickets or not? Whether you even get the chance to achieve that is pretty much dependent on getting to play a hell of a lot of games. And with Shane Bond's seemingly continual injuries, I think the man will be lucky if he makes the next World Cup, let alone takes 500 wickets. It's a tragedy, really. Even if he isn't the best, he's one of them and his action is beautiful to watch.

[cobl04]

I agree with your last point. Magnificent bowler and you can just always feel that he is dangerous. I believe his record against us is something like 14, which is impeccable and light years in front of any other bowler.

I don't think Murali's a chucker either, just takes the rule right to the edge. But it's hard not to call him a chucker when you're sitting with hundreds of Aussie fans!

[Axver]

Originally posted by COBL_04
I believe his record against us is something like 14, which is impeccable and light years in front of any other bowler.

Yeah, that's unbelievably good. And it's nice considering most other Kiwis seem to have their worst record against Australia!

I don't think Murali's a chucker either, just takes the rule right to the edge. But it's hard not to call him a chucker when you're sitting with hundreds of Aussie fans!

I've always liked Murali and I think his "chucking" is overhyped once you consider the way he bowls is due to the nature of his wrist. The way he works with it is a beauty to watch.

I can't believe he holds the record for the worst ODI performance. Remember that game where he got thumped for 0/99? Indescribable. The only person worse (a Kiwi, I think!), actually bowled 12 overs back when that was legal, and when you average out runs per over, Murali was hit for more.

[major_panic]

Good to see Brad Hogg back in an Australian team uniform - man I always thought that guy was great... No idea why they dropped him.

In other news, Aus is 1-1 having beaten NZ and lost to RSA in Twenty20. (although I leave it to you to decide how much that form of the game is a true indicator of performance... it's just gotten too serious from its fun origins)

[cobl04]

Australia got beaten by Zimbabwe!!!

And yes, I was there on that day when he got hit for 0/99. Quite funny actually.

And Chris Gayle! First international 20/20 century, and he broke the record for most sixes in one 20/20 innings, doubling the previous record!!!

[major_panic]

Daniel Vettori now captain of all NZ teams... My dream has finally come true... Maybe NZ will actually start to win more now!

And OMG Australia got beaten by Zimbabwe. *facepalm*

[Axver]

Aaaaahahahahahahaha Australia lost to Zimbabwe!

Yeah, yeah, I know Australia will probably now go on to win the entire tournament while New Zealand will crash and burn. Let me enjoy this moment to gloat.

Originally posted by major_panic
Daniel Vettori now captain of all NZ teams... My dream has finally come true... Maybe NZ will actually start to win more now!

Yeah, I've been saying for years that Vettori should be captain. But after so long, it's strange to not have Fleming as captain.

By the way, considering your statement, are you a Kiwi or just more positive towards Kiwi sporting teams than anyone I've actually met in Melbourne?

[Acrobat Angel]

I can't believe Australia lost

England tomorrow night

BTW, what's with Ponting changing his name from Ricky to Rick?

[major_panic]

Originally posted by Axver
By the way, considering your statement, are you a Kiwi or just more positive towards Kiwi sporting teams than anyone I've actually met in Melbourne?

I'm actually originally from Malaysia and have British and Australian citizenship... So I guess I officially come under "confused".

However, I actually do like the Kiwis. They're like the nicer version of Australia, except they don't win as much but have much cooler uniforms.

And, of course, they have Daniel Vettori, who by virtue of his glasses is the single coolest player in cricket ever.

(Secretly hoping for a NZ-Aus final in the Rugby World Cup)

[cobl04]

Originally posted by Acrobat Angel


BTW, what's with Ponting changing his name from Ricky to Rick?

wha...? you for real?

Damn.

[Axver]

Regarding Ricky Ponting, a couple of people have mentioned that the news reported he wants to be known as Rick from now on, but I didn't see anything like that on SBS's report. I just Googled information now, and if you search Google News for "Rick Ponting", you get two articles: one from CricketWorldCupLatest.com that calls him Rick in the headline and Ricky in the article (including Andrew Symonds calling him Ricky), and one about someone totally different, some J. Rick Ponting, a sociology professor emeritus of the University of Calgary appointed by the Anglican Church to a truth commission re: Canada's First Nations!

So if Ponting does want to be called Rick, the online media at the moment doesn't seem to give a shit! Meanwhile, The Chaser legends continue to dominate headlines ...

Originally posted by major_panic
However, I actually do like the Kiwis. They're like the nicer version of Australia, except they don't win as much but have much cooler uniforms.

And, of course, they have Daniel Vettori, who by virtue of his glasses is the single coolest player in cricket ever.

Great rationale! The uniforms certainly do help, it seems. I've met a couple of Australians who actually support the Kiwis just because they think we look cooler and they can't stand certain prominent Aussie sportsmen (not naming names, but Matt Dunning, Phil Waugh, George Gregan, Ricky Ponting, Shane Warne, we haven't forgotten you).

Unfortunately, I've lived in Australia long enough that a lot of people don't guess I'm from New Zealand any more. When I moved to Victoria, people assumed I'd just come from interstate until I said something like "the weather down here is icksillint compared to Queensland's awful bloody heat"!