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Old 11-10-2011, 03:44 PM   #121
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The only evidence in the Grand Jury testimony is that he confirmed he was told by his assistant in 2002. In regards to the 1998 stuff ... it was investigated by University Park police, silenced by them, and then the next year Paterno forced Sandusky to retire. So, while there's no "evidence," it's sort of a two and two make four situation.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:45 PM   #122
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i'll report the incident to the AD and trust that it's handled appropriately and get back to my business.
But would you do that if the incident in question involved the rape of a child?
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:45 PM   #123
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Paterno clearly knew that something inappropriate had happened between Sandusky and a child. As arguably the most powerful person on campus, he had a responsibility to make sure that justice was served and that future victims were protected. At best, he failed to follow up. At worst, he assisted in the cover up. Either way, the university had no choice but to fire him.

Opinions can vary, but the overwhelming opinion (off campus, anyway) is that he could have and should have done more.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:46 PM   #124
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I am of the impression that it goes a bit further than that, that when he initially reported to his AD, he watered it down to "fondling" or "touching of a sexual nature" when in fact he fully knew that it was anal rape of a boy of about 10 years of age. So in other words his reporting was even horribly flawed if not an outright lie

Can anyone expand on this?
He's saying he did not fully know it was the anal rape. He's saying McQueary was not fully forthcoming.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:47 PM   #125
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and you were more than just a co-worker, a person of authority and a highly visible representative of the organization.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:48 PM   #126
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Mikal is literally the first non-Penn State person I've seen defend Paterno, and I've basically been following this non-stop for six days.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:48 PM   #127
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He's saying he did not fully know it was the anal rape. He's saying McQueary was not fully forthcoming.
He should have asked.

BTW, I see that McQueary will still be on the coaching staff Saturday. WTF?
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:48 PM   #128
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The only evidence in the Grand Jury testimony is that he confirmed he was told by his assistant in 2002. In regards to the 1998 stuff ... it was investigated by University Park police, silenced by them, and then the next year Paterno forced Sandusky to retire. So, while there's no "evidence," it's sort of a two and two make four situation.
ok, that makes a little more sense then. thanks for the response.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:49 PM   #129
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Mikal is literally the first non-Penn State person I've seen defend Paterno, and I've basically been following this non-stop for six days.
not defending him. just looking for clarification. i wish you had read my original post that i have not paid attention to this story until yesterday. had a really busy week and i'm catching up.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:49 PM   #130
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edit- people have responded already, but oh well I'll keep it up for posterity.

mikal, I think you're underselling it. The Paterno quote at the end is from the grand jury testimony:

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The next day, a Saturday, the grad assistant went to the home of head coach Joe Paterno and told him what he had seen. The day after that, Paterno called Penn State athletic director Tim Curley to his home to report that the grad assistant had told him he had witnessed "Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."
You're the PSU head coach. The boss. And this involves a trusted former assistant who spent 33 years working for you; happening in your locker rooms. Simply passing on the general hotline number and acting like you've fulfilled your moral obligations, as Paterno evidently did, is willful blindness. Does anyone hear of a child molestation incident and think "well, that was probably the first time THAT happened!"

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Now here is the detail that, among all the details in the Grand Jury’s extensive depiction of the morally depraved behavior of Sandusky, Curley, Schultz, Paterno, PSU president Graham Spanier, and McQueary, is perhaps the most shocking: Five years after this, in the spring of 2007, Sandusky was attending PSU football practices with his latest rape victim: a 12-year-old boy who he had met through a Second Mile camp conducted at PSU, and who he was in the process of, among other things, orally sodomizing.
Paterno knew there was an allegation of (at least) sexual fondling against Sandusky, and either was ok with the police never being involved, was ok with never knowing if the police were involved, or was ok knowing that Sandusky continued to be around kids.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:50 PM   #131
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BTW, I see that McQueary will still be on the coaching staff Saturday, WTF?
They should cancel the rest of the season. Straight up.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:50 PM   #132
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It just boggles my mind how someone could witness an adult raping a child and not immediately call 911.

I know people react differently to witnessing horrible things, and maybe there's a delay before the switch flicks in one's head and you think of your next steps, but how does it not go any further, even after the rapist is still there, and clearly nothing has been done about it?

I hope anyone who knew and was involved in any sort of cover up has nothing but the most horrific guilt on their minds for the rest of their lives.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:51 PM   #133
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But would you do that if the incident in question involved the rape of a child?
i think it all depends. the company i work for has very strict policies regarding the steps before and after reporting incidents. involvement after reporting is heavily discouraged and can actually lead to termination.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:51 PM   #134
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Penn State Scandal: Board Of Trustees Asks Mike McQueary To Stay Away From Sidelines Saturday - SB Nation Philly

McQueary keeps his job, (money) at a distance.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:53 PM   #135
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He's saying he did not fully know it was the anal rape. He's saying McQueary was not fully forthcoming.
But he knew it to be at least molestation of a minor child.

He has to call the cops if nothing is done. He just has to.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:55 PM   #136
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i think it all depends. the company i work for has very strict policies regarding the steps before and after reporting incidents. involvement after reporting is heavily discouraged and can actually lead to termination.
Huh. Okay, gotcha.

But jeez, that sounds pretty fucked up, too. You have to decide whether to risk your job to do the right thing, if you see nothing has been done?

I guess if you're really lucky, you know your company will do the right thing and never have to reach that point.
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Old 11-10-2011, 03:55 PM   #137
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i think it all depends. the company i work for has very strict policies regarding the steps before and after reporting incidents. involvement after reporting is heavily discouraged and can actually lead to termination.
Yeah so do various churches which tell their ministers to leave it alone after it's reported up the chain or they'll be terminated as ministers/elders/etc. Ab-so-fucking-lutely hell no. You fucking call the police. End of story.

This is the whole problem with the "well I reported it to my superiors" concept. These so-called superiors are NOT law enforcement officials, they aren't trained in investigative procedures, and they are not charged with upholding the law and prosecuting criminals. Putting them in the driver's seat as to what happens next is the biggest failure of our society for child victims. And for god's sake, why as a school official or other person in power, would you even want to be in that position and have to somehow come to some sort of conclusion as to the veracity of the allegation and/or any punishment? Hand it off immediately to the authorities to be dealt with as the law dictates. Instead these idiots try and play referee with the sickest form of criminals. It's outrageous.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:00 PM   #138
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i think it all depends. the company i work for has very strict policies regarding the steps before and after reporting incidents. involvement after reporting is heavily discouraged and can actually lead to termination.
But Paterno is not employee X, he's basically the CEO.

I'm pretty sure if you were working on a Saturday, saw a senior VP anally raping a 10-year-boy in the bathroom, and reported it to the CEO, he would follow up on it. He wouldn't call human resources and assume it was handled.

BTW, you should also punch the VP in the face, rescue the boy, and call the friggin' cops.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:00 PM   #139
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Huh. Okay, gotcha.

But jeez, that sounds pretty fucked up, too. You have to decide whether to risk your job to do the right thing, if you see nothing has been done?

I guess if you're really lucky, you know your company will do the right thing and never have to reach that point.
yeah, luckily i do have 100% trust that my company would do the right thing. i've actually seen situations play out successfully when the hotline was used, so i actually have some faith in it.
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Old 11-10-2011, 04:03 PM   #140
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But Paterno is not employee X, he's basically the CEO.

I'm pretty sure if you were working on a Saturday and saw a senior VP anally raping a 10-year-boy in the bathroom, then reported it to the CEO, he would follow up on it.

BTW, you should also punch the VP in the face, rescue the boy, and call the friggin' cops.
i wouldn't report it to the CEO though. i'd be scared to death of losing my job, so i'd report it to the hotline anonymously and then look for a new job. call it cowardly, but i bring in the most money in my household and wouldn't want to put my family in a financial burden.
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