Penn State Child Molestation Scandal...continuing discussion

[PhilsFan]

The only evidence in the Grand Jury testimony is that he confirmed he was told by his assistant in 2002. In regards to the 1998 stuff ... it was investigated by University Park police, silenced by them, and then the next year Paterno forced Sandusky to retire. So, while there's no "evidence," it's sort of a two and two make four situation.

 

[corianderstem]

i'll report the incident to the AD and trust that it's handled appropriately and get back to my business.

But would you do that if the incident in question involved the rape of a child?

 

[Danny Boy]

Paterno clearly knew that something inappropriate had happened between Sandusky and a child. As arguably the most powerful person on campus, he had a responsibility to make sure that justice was served and that future victims were protected. At best, he failed to follow up. At worst, he assisted in the cover up. Either way, the university had no choice but to fire him.

Opinions can vary, but the overwhelming opinion (off campus, anyway) is that he could have and should have done more.

 

[PhilsFan]

I am of the impression that it goes a bit further than that, that when he initially reported to his AD, he watered it down to "fondling" or "touching of a sexual nature" when in fact he fully knew that it was anal rape of a boy of about 10 years of age. So in other words his reporting was even horribly flawed if not an outright lie

Can anyone expand on this?

He's saying he did not fully know it was the anal rape. He's saying McQueary was not fully forthcoming.

 

[deep]

and you were more than just a co-worker, a person of authority and a highly visible representative of the organization.

 

[PhilsFan]

Mikal is literally the first non-Penn State person I've seen defend Paterno, and I've basically been following this non-stop for six days.

 

[Danny Boy]

He's saying he did not fully know it was the anal rape. He's saying McQueary was not fully forthcoming.

He should have asked.

BTW, I see that McQueary will still be on the coaching staff Saturday. WTF?

 

[mikal]

The only evidence in the Grand Jury testimony is that he confirmed he was told by his assistant in 2002. In regards to the 1998 stuff ... it was investigated by University Park police, silenced by them, and then the next year Paterno forced Sandusky to retire. So, while there's no "evidence," it's sort of a two and two make four situation.

ok, that makes a little more sense then. thanks for the response.

 

[mikal]

Mikal is literally the first non-Penn State person I've seen defend Paterno, and I've basically been following this non-stop for six days.

not defending him. just looking for clarification. i wish you had read my original post that i have not paid attention to this story until yesterday. had a really busy week and i'm catching up.

 

[mobvok]

edit- people have responded already, but oh well I'll keep it up for posterity.

mikal, I think you're underselling it. The Paterno quote at the end is from the grand jury testimony:

The next day, a Saturday, the grad assistant went to the home of head coach Joe Paterno and told him what he had seen. The day after that, Paterno called Penn State athletic director Tim Curley to his home to report that the grad assistant had told him he had witnessed "Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

You're the PSU head coach. The boss. And this involves a trusted former assistant who spent 33 years working for you; happening in your locker rooms. Simply passing on the general hotline number and acting like you've fulfilled your moral obligations, as Paterno evidently did, is willful blindness. Does anyone hear of a child molestation incident and think "well, that was probably the first time THAT happened!"

Now here is the detail that, among all the details in the Grand Jury’s extensive depiction of the morally depraved behavior of Sandusky, Curley, Schultz, Paterno, PSU president Graham Spanier, and McQueary, is perhaps the most shocking: Five years after this, in the spring of 2007, Sandusky was attending PSU football practices with his latest rape victim: a 12-year-old boy who he had met through a Second Mile camp conducted at PSU, and who he was in the process of, among other things, orally sodomizing.

Paterno knew there was an allegation of (at least) sexual fondling against Sandusky, and either was ok with the police never being involved, was ok with never knowing if the police were involved, or was ok knowing that Sandusky continued to be around kids.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

BTW, I see that McQueary will still be on the coaching staff Saturday, WTF?

They should cancel the rest of the season. Straight up.

 

[corianderstem]

It just boggles my mind how someone could witness an adult raping a child and not immediately call 911.

I know people react differently to witnessing horrible things, and maybe there's a delay before the switch flicks in one's head and you think of your next steps, but how does it not go any further, even after the rapist is still there, and clearly nothing has been done about it?

I hope anyone who knew and was involved in any sort of cover up has nothing but the most horrific guilt on their minds for the rest of their lives.

 

[mikal]

But would you do that if the incident in question involved the rape of a child?

i think it all depends. the company i work for has very strict policies regarding the steps before and after reporting incidents. involvement after reporting is heavily discouraged and can actually lead to termination.

 

[deep]

Penn State Scandal: Board Of Trustees Asks Mike McQueary To Stay Away From Sidelines Saturday - SB Nation Philly

McQueary keeps his job, (money) at a distance.

 

[gvox]

He's saying he did not fully know it was the anal rape. He's saying McQueary was not fully forthcoming.

But he knew it to be at least molestation of a minor child.

He has to call the cops if nothing is done. He just has to.

 

[corianderstem]

i think it all depends. the company i work for has very strict policies regarding the steps before and after reporting incidents. involvement after reporting is heavily discouraged and can actually lead to termination.

Huh. Okay, gotcha.

But jeez, that sounds pretty fucked up, too. You have to decide whether to risk your job to do the right thing, if you see nothing has been done?

I guess if you're really lucky, you know your company will do the right thing and never have to reach that point.

 

[gvox]

i think it all depends. the company i work for has very strict policies regarding the steps before and after reporting incidents. involvement after reporting is heavily discouraged and can actually lead to termination.

Yeah so do various churches which tell their ministers to leave it alone after it's reported up the chain or they'll be terminated as ministers/elders/etc. Ab-so-fucking-lutely hell no. You fucking call the police. End of story.

This is the whole problem with the "well I reported it to my superiors" concept. These so-called superiors are NOT law enforcement officials, they aren't trained in investigative procedures, and they are not charged with upholding the law and prosecuting criminals. Putting them in the driver's seat as to what happens next is the biggest failure of our society for child victims. And for god's sake, why as a school official or other person in power, would you even want to be in that position and have to somehow come to some sort of conclusion as to the veracity of the allegation and/or any punishment? Hand it off immediately to the authorities to be dealt with as the law dictates. Instead these idiots try and play referee with the sickest form of criminals. It's outrageous.

 

[Danny Boy]

i think it all depends. the company i work for has very strict policies regarding the steps before and after reporting incidents. involvement after reporting is heavily discouraged and can actually lead to termination.

But Paterno is not employee X, he's basically the CEO.

I'm pretty sure if you were working on a Saturday, saw a senior VP anally raping a 10-year-boy in the bathroom, and reported it to the CEO, he would follow up on it. He wouldn't call human resources and assume it was handled.

BTW, you should also punch the VP in the face, rescue the boy, and call the friggin' cops.

 

[mikal]

Huh. Okay, gotcha.

But jeez, that sounds pretty fucked up, too. You have to decide whether to risk your job to do the right thing, if you see nothing has been done?

I guess if you're really lucky, you know your company will do the right thing and never have to reach that point.

yeah, luckily i do have 100% trust that my company would do the right thing. i've actually seen situations play out successfully when the hotline was used, so i actually have some faith in it.

 

[mikal]

But Paterno is not employee X, he's basically the CEO.

I'm pretty sure if you were working on a Saturday and saw a senior VP anally raping a 10-year-boy in the bathroom, then reported it to the CEO, he would follow up on it.

BTW, you should also punch the VP in the face, rescue the boy, and call the friggin' cops.

i wouldn't report it to the CEO though. i'd be scared to death of losing my job, so i'd report it to the hotline anonymously and then look for a new job. call it cowardly, but i bring in the most money in my household and wouldn't want to put my family in a financial burden.

 

[mikal]

sorry, guess i'm going on a tangent about a hotline that probably didn't exist. i was just exploring a scenario where Paterno was assured the situation would be taken care of by the AD.

but as Philsfan pointed out that i didn't know about, Paterno actually forced Sandusky to retire, so it sounds like he knew more than i had originally thought.

 

[Danny Boy]

The point is McQueary did tell the "CEO," and he did nothing.

 

[gvox]

Why the fuck didn't McQuery call the cops, also?

He's equally to blame here, although he was the lowest guy on the totem pole so had the most to fear re recriminations..still no excuse.

 

[PhilsFan]

But he knew it to be at least molestation of a minor child.

He has to call the cops if nothing is done. He just has to.

Are you arguing with me? I'm just telling you what he said because you had it slightly wrong. There's two things going on here: what the facts are and what the conclusions from them should be. I was talking simply of the facts.

 

[PhilsFan]

sorry, guess i'm going on a tangent about a hotline that probably didn't exist. i was just exploring a scenario where Paterno was assured the situation would be taken care of by the AD.

but as Philsfan pointed out that i didn't know about, Paterno actually forced Sandusky to retire, so it sounds like he knew more than i had originally thought.

I have read that idea of "assurance" from people and I'm not sure what it means. An ol' pat on the back and a "hey, we'll take care of this" doesn't really mean shit when you're talking about child rape.

 

[LemonMelon]

They should cancel the rest of the season. Straight up.

What do they have to gain from this? They have to proceed beyond the scandal at some point, and forfeiting up to 5 games merely underlines the importance of Paterno to Penn State.

Personally, I'm cheering for those kids the rest of the way. I'm also not of the assumption that everyone involved in Penn State athletics is corrupt. I really can't think that way. Maybe I'm just naive.

 

[PhilsFan]

Canceling the season would be an awful idea. They need to get rid of McQueary, though.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

What do they have to gain from this? They have to proceed beyond the scandal at some point, and forfeiting up to 5 games merely underlines the importance of Paterno to Penn State.

Personally, I'm cheering for those kids the rest of the way. I'm also not of the assumption that everyone involved in Penn State athletics is corrupt. I really can't think that way. Maybe I'm just naive.

Yeah, I can see both sides of it. Just a couple days ago I was saying that everyone at Penn St. should support the players and that the team should try to rally together and kick ass the rest of the way.

And now the whole thing is just so fucked up, I wonder how they can even play football right now, you know?

So, I go back and forth on that whole thing. And they're probably gonna be really shitty at basketball so maybe, yeah, they should try to end the football season with a nice bowl game victory.

 

[deep]

canceling the season makes absolutely no sense at all
they might as well close down the college and bull doze it.


replacing coaches or anyone else is really easy, go to linked-in or monster.com
people are actually looking for work, ya know

 

[mikal]

on a side note, this story has inspired me to watch the movie "Sleepers" tonight.