NFL Thread III

[LuckyNumber7]

Absolutely. It would have taken a good five seconds off the clock.

Are you guys wondering why they didn’t squib it? Or why they didn’t kick it short of the goal line?

Squib is out of the question since it’s a 3 point game and that could end up starting from the 40 if it goes out of bounds. Players can just give themselves up. But I suppose you’re probably talking about kicking it short. Pringle’s a good returner. Conventional wisdom says all you have to do is stop two plays with 13 seconds left. A kickoff is far more likely to result in a TD or an explosive play to get to near FG range. Don’t put the ball in the returner’s hands and give them an option.

I think y’all are taking for granted how improbable it was to go 50 yards in 2 plays and still have enough time to kick a FG. Which… boy did the clock operators hit stop the microsecond that knee was down. The no return is risk aversion, which makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is the four rushers. If your rushers get to Mahommes, KC held onto the ball for too long anyways. Rush two. Rush zero for all I care.

 

[cobl04]

I've seen so much hype about this game I'm actually gonna watch some highlights. The first time I've ever watched gridiron.

 

[cobl04]

What's this coin toss stuff? Reading a lot about how that decided the outcome.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Who gets the ball first in OT is decided by a coin toss.

It does NOT decide who wins. The defense can stop the other team from scoring. They didn't. Even holding them to just a field goal would have gotten them the ball back.

 

[U2inUtah]

That game was incredible. I freakin love the NFL

 

[U2inUtah]

On a personal note, it was pretty cool to see Rams kicker Matt Gay get the winning FG today over the Bucs. I am childhood friends with his oldest brother Jimmy. I used to have sleepovers at their house growing up, back when Matt was a baby.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

The football was good.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Why has nobody mentioned the amazing Twitter account that is @thedickbutkus

 

[cobl04]

I wanted Buffalo to win. I watched a 30 for 30 once on them and it was quite sad.

 

[phanan]

Are you guys wondering why they didn’t squib it? Or why they didn’t kick it short of the goal line?

Squib is out of the question since it’s a 3 point game and that could end up starting from the 40 if it goes out of bounds. Players can just give themselves up. But I suppose you’re probably talking about kicking it short. Pringle’s a good returner. Conventional wisdom says all you have to do is stop two plays with 13 seconds left. A kickoff is far more likely to result in a TD or an explosive play to get to near FG range. Don’t put the ball in the returner’s hands and give them an option.

I think y’all are taking for granted how improbable it was to go 50 yards in 2 plays and still have enough time to kick a FG. Which… boy did the clock operators hit stop the microsecond that knee was down. The no return is risk aversion, which makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is the four rushers. If your rushers get to Mahommes, KC held onto the ball for too long anyways. Rush two. Rush zero for all I care.

Yes, kicking just short of the goal line was my thought. Make them catch it at the 2 or something and run it out. Pringle is good, but I'd rather take my chances stopping him vs Mahomes. If they are at the 20 or 25 with only 8 seconds remaining, you're in much better shape. I just wouldn't take any chances against Mahomes, he's that good.

 

[phanan]

Who gets the ball first in OT is decided by a coin toss.

It does NOT decide who wins. The defense can stop the other team from scoring. They didn't. Even holding them to just a field goal would have gotten them the ball back.

Exactly. The whining online from reporters and fans is nauseating. Last I checked, there is more to a team than an offense. As fantastic a scoring show as that was, the defense has to make a stop at some point.

For those arguing that Allen should have gotten a chance as well, to what end do you go? The defenses are just going to get more tired, so it's a good bet Mahomes and Allen will keep scoring. When do you end it? Last ball wins? What if it's still tied at the end of OT? Keep going? This isn't basketball.

Play defense. If you can't stop them, then you know what you need to do in the offseason.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

how about we just take the defense off the field and have an offensive skills competition? you know. for fairness.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I dunno guys. I think college OT rules are immensely more fair. KC wouldn’t have stopped Buffalo either.

 

[mikal]

I wish we could get past the whole "The coin toss doesn't determine who wins counterargument". We all get that. But the OT rules still need to change, and the NFL is losing a huge opportunity to gain more from an entertainment standpoint. Imagine if the NFL completely copied the college rules and we got to see 20 more minutes of that amazing game last night.

Plus, yeah both teams really should get a chance to have an offensive possession in OT.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

nobody KNOWS that buffalo was going to score. sure it's a good assumption, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Chiefs stop them. or maybe there's a fumble. maybe there's an INT. maybe Buffalo commits a bad penalty on a third down conversion and forces them into a 4th and long. any number of things can happen.

all buffalo had to do was keep Kansas City out of the endzone.

all buffalo had to do was make Kansas City field the kick at the end of regulation.

there's nothing unfair about what happened and i have zero issue with the rules as they are set up.

would i have loved to see that game continue? of course! it was one of the most exciting games i've ever seen. but nah - i don't think there's a need to change the rules at all. but there's a difference between "unfair" and "entertaining."

would the college rules be more entertaining? yes. are the current rules unfair? no.

if buffalo gets a stop or holds them to a field goal nobody is talking about the rules needing to be changed this morning.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

All this talk about the OT rules, and the crazy scoring in the last two minutes is taking away from the truly shocking development from yesterday's game... Andy Reid had all three time outs left on the final drive.

 

[mikal]

Maybe instead of going to the extreme and adopting college rules, a compromise change the rule to allow the other team to have a chance to match the TD. If they do, next score wins. If they don't, game over.

That way, I think it truly would be a fair Overtime and completely take the coin flip out of the equation.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

nobody KNOWS that buffalo was going to score.

Literally? Yes. Generally? Sure. But I can’t think of a more hyperbolic game to make the point against you here. 78 points. 25 of which came in the final 2 minutes of regulation. 4 consecutive flawless drives. Lead changes everywhere.

Why are college rules “extreme”? Kick-offs are dumb and nobody wants to watch you play on your own 20 in Q5. If you made it this far it’s because either a) your offenses both suck the same or b) your defenses both suck the same.

I just don’t understand why we can’t agree that each team should have a possession to make their case.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

because football is not just offense - and the college rules, while entertaining as hell, cheapens the defensive side of the ball.

i'd be more in favor of simply playing a straight 10 minute OT before shifting to sudden death than I would shifting to the college rules.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

College rules aren’t “offense only” though. Defense has to stop the offense. It’s literally the same point you’re making.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

it's literally not. alas - i'm not going to try and change your mind.

 

[bono_212]

because football is not just offense - and the college rules, while entertaining as hell, cheapens the defensive side of the ball.

i'd be more in favor of simply playing a straight 10 minute OT before shifting to sudden death than I would shifting to the college rules.

I would like just a true 10 minute OT most of all. But I'm glad the league addressed this at all. As we all know, not too long ago, it really was basically the coin toss that decided who won. A field goal to end things on the first drive was a joke of a rule. I've been content since that went out the window.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

it's literally not. alas - i'm not going to try and change your mind.

Alas, how above thou you must be. You right tho, in college they just have cardboard structures in place of defense during OT.

 

[bono_212]

Yes, kicking just short of the goal line was my thought. Make them catch it at the 2 or something and run it out. Pringle is good, but I'd rather take my chances stopping him vs Mahomes. If they are at the 20 or 25 with only 8 seconds remaining, you're in much better shape. I just wouldn't take any chances against Mahomes, he's that good.

It's Mahomes and they needed a field goal and had all of their time outs. We know who he is and what he can do, 13 seconds was plenty of time, and that's why the commentary team also agrees, you kick it short of the goal like there, and it's what I've come to expect in that situation too. I feel like that's basically the default move, but even a slightly longer than average squib kick might have done the job. Just crazy that Buffalo freely said, "here, have a free timeout and 25 yards."

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I think there’s a case to be made about the kickoff, for sure, though zero chance you squib it. That runs the risk of starting from the 40 with no time burnt.

Ultimately though, Buffalo dropped the ball in many ways to allow 50 yards in 13 seconds.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Alas, how above thou you must be. You right tho, in college they just have cardboard structures in place of defense during OT.

i fully intended on my last post to be the last post on this subject - and this absolutely will be - and it has nothing to do with me believing i'm "above" you. i have no interest in dragging this out in a back and forth that nobody is going to budge on. so if that makes you feel better, or that you "won"? okay - fine.

in college the offense gets the ball on the 25 yard line. there aren't readily available stats on what teams do on offense from the 25 - but there's plenty from the 20 so for sake of argument let's use that.

the NFL leaders in drives ending in a score were the chiefs at 48%. the Bills were second at 45%. that's all drives - no matter if it begins from your own 5 yard line or you get a turnover on the goal line and just need a sneak. the NFL average on all drives was a score on 37.8% of drives.


in the Red Zone the WORST conversion percentage was Jacksonville at 62.5%. if you only count touchdowns - the worst conversion percentage was the Giants at 45% - the same as what the Bills had on all drives.

the Bills scored touchdowns in the red zone 62% of the time, the Chiefs 59%. both teams scored (FG or TD) in the high 80s.

so no - the college rules aren't quite the same as just letting it play out. it gives a clear advantage to the offense and, yes, cheapens the defensive side of the ball.

at the end of the day? sure - you still have to "make a stop." but it's statistically much more likely that you make a stop off a kickoff than it is when the offense starts with the ball at your 25 yard line, and by a fairly wide margin.

that is all.

 

[phanan]

I think there’s a case to be made about the kickoff, for sure, though zero chance you squib it. That runs the risk of starting from the 40 with no time burnt.

Ultimately though, Buffalo dropped the ball in many ways to allow 50 yards in 13 seconds.

Absolutely agree with no squib there. We've seen that backfire too many times in the past.

 

[bono_212]

Absolutely agree with no squib there. We've seen that backfire too many times in the past.

I wouldn't truly advocate for a squib, that was me being a bit dramatic, more to the point, I just can't, can't, can't believe they kicked it out.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

i fully intended on my last post to be the last post on this subject - and this absolutely will be - and it has nothing to do with me believing i'm "above" you. i have no interest in dragging this out in a back and forth that nobody is going to budge on. so if that makes you feel better, or that you "won"? okay - fine.

Lol chill, it has nothing to do with who “won.” I just obviously didn’t like the dismissive “because it’s you“ response. Hopefully you can see that.

 

[Hewson]

College rules aren’t “offense only” though. Defense has to stop the offense. It’s literally the same point you’re making.

I know you two (U2) have argued this out already, but the offense is already set up in FG range in college, so while it's not "offense only", it's heavily tilted towards the offense.