NFL Thread III

[Hewson]

McNabb ran the slowest 2 minute offense I've ever seen in Superb Owl 39. Supposedly dry heaving and unable to get a no huddle going.
Moral of the story, a strict diet of Chunky Soup is not a winning combination for an NFL QB.

 

[bono_212]

Given that “all of that” is a response to me, perhaps unintentionally, I’d appreciate if you’re going to participate that you don’t just seem to entirely neglect the response to “all of that” because it feels sort of dismissive.

I was not even remotely interested in the two of you's conversation, I didn't even read it, besides Headache's post, which summed up my frustration with the Bucs/Brady/Patriots triangle this season pretty well. I have no idea what you two were arguing about and still haven't gone back to read it. I just came into the thread after finally finding a little peace in watching my favorite sports team shit the bed yet again.

So I was not dismissing your opinion, because I don't know what your opinion was. I could go back and read it, but that would require me to go back to where people were talking about the Packers game and honestly, I still don't feel like it.

Yeah I mean it's one of those judgement calls where if the Packers didn't get it on 4th down, then you'd wish you had the 3 points and a chance to stop them.

Hate to say it, as much as I appreciate everything Rodgers has done for Green Bay, the guy is not good in championship games. He wasn't good enough yesterday. The game clearly swung in GB's favor after those Brady picks and we went 3 and put twice. You can't do that in a Championship game. Sure there were a lot of factors that caused the Packers to lose, but once again I came away underwhelmed by Rodgers. If the Jordan Love Era starts next season, I'm not going to be crushed having all of that salary cap space to bulk up the roster even more.

Except to say that I also agree with all of this, unfortunately. Several years ago, I recall us having some pretty intense debate because I said the Rodgers era was over. I'm glad to see I was wrong, but at the end of the day, what did we actually come away with? Controversy, depression and a lot of "What-ifs?".

I hope he's back. I hope they're great. I hope he wins a second ring with GB. But I'm not ever going to become the kind of person who discounts an entire player's career based on how many rings they do/don't have. Thank God Marino didn't play in the era of hot takes, because I don't know how he'd have any legacy at all at this point.

Andy Reid was held back in Philadelphia by an incompetent front office.

Really starting to feel that way, isn't it?

Yeah but if you failed on 4th, you have TB pinned at the 8 yard line (or closer if you complete a pass short of the goal line), so you increase your odds if you do stop them.

I haven't looked into it, because, as I said, I'm still feeling pretty low, but has LaFleur explained himself at all, yet?

 

[lazarus]

has LaFleur explained himself at all, yet?

 

[DaveC]

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Gee

 

[mikal]

Another lesson I've learned throughout the last 10 years is to appreciate every Super Bowl trophy. After SB 45 it really looked like the Packers were on the verge of a dynasty. Same thing with the Seahawks and a couple of other teams. Nothing is guaranteed. I think that's helped me get a lot less upset than I used to.

 

[lazarus]

Despite the fact that the 49ers as a franchise have a nice haul of trophies, I'll probably never get over Steve Young only winning one championship. And he never really gets his due in general; guy is legit all-time Top 10 IMO and I don't think we hear his name enough.

This is from 2019, for what it's worth:

Adjusted Passer Rating: Top Ten Quarterbacks of All-Time

 

[bono_212]

Despite the fact that the 49ers as a franchise have a nice haul of trophies, I'll probably never get over Steve Young only winning one championship. And he never really gets his due in general; guy is legit all-time Top 10 IMO and I don't think we hear his name enough.

This is from 2019, for what it's worth:

Adjusted Passer Rating: Top Ten Quarterbacks of All-Time

I can not fully express how completely OVER the current era in sports talk radio/news I am. It's absolutely ridiculous that a QB has to win 2 SB rings, at this point, for anyone to take them seriously. But they have to have something to talk about on the 15 sports networks we have for 8 hours a day that there aren't any live programs on, right?

 

[DaveC]

I can not fully express how completely OVER the current era in sports talk radio/news I am. It's absolutely ridiculous that a QB has to win 2 SB rings, at this point, for anyone to take them seriously. But they have to have something to talk about on the 15 sports networks we have for 8 hours a day that there aren't any live programs on, right?

i can not fully express how completely in agreement i am with this post.

 

[mikal]

I can not fully express how completely OVER the current era in sports talk radio/news I am. It's absolutely ridiculous that a QB has to win 2 SB rings, at this point, for anyone to take them seriously. But they have to have something to talk about on the 15 sports networks we have for 8 hours a day that there aren't any live programs on, right?

The real "fake news" when you think about it.

 

[Hewson]

Despite the fact that the 49ers as a franchise have a nice haul of trophies, I'll probably never get over Steve Young only winning one championship. And he never really gets his due in general; guy is legit all-time Top 10 IMO and I don't think we hear his name enough.

This is from 2019, for what it's worth:

Adjusted Passer Rating: Top Ten Quarterbacks of All-Time

I don't know. I think Young gets his fair due of praise.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Oh my god [emoji7]

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Lol what the flying fuck is this Goff-Stafford trade ive never seen a bigger lose lose

 

[the tourist]

I don’t know it’s a lose for the Lions with all the draft picks going their way. Not that they won’t fuck it up somehow because Lions.

 

[bono_212]

IMO, I think the rams may have won here, if their goal is simply to win a super bowl and forget the rest. Which is a very LA team move.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I don’t know it’s a lose for the Lions with all the draft picks going their way. Not that they won’t fuck it up somehow because Lions.

They’re committing to Jared Goff with that monstrous contract, and Jared Goff has shown he isn’t at the NFL level. Lots of guaranteed money too. Also one of the picks is coming from a playoff team. Not that good of a 1st.

IMO, I think the rams may have won here, if their goal is simply to win a super bowl and forget the rest. Which is a very LA team move.

They’re not going to win a Super Bowl with Matt Stafford. He’s a good QB but on the wrong side of his prime.

 

[the tourist]

Does that mean I should be bummed to be a Seahawks fan since Stafford and Wilson are the same age?

 

[LemonMelon]

I just don't see the Rams improving enough to make losing that draft capital worthwhile. Stafford makes $1 million less than Goff next year and $6 million less the year after that, so it's not like they're saving a ton of money anyway.

The Lions are in a rebuild, so I could see them getting what they can from Goff in an inflated trade market and drafting someone like Trey Lance to be the face of their rebuild. Or they'll just keep him and spend way too much on a QB that won't win for them, so...a more expensive Stafford.

 

[DaveC]

the rams got absolutely hosed in this trade. the lions will continue to be the lions with goff at quarterback.

the only explanation i can think of for the team to give away even more first-round draft picks to the point that they don't have a single one for SEVEN years is that kroenke intends to go all-in for a run when the new stadium properly opens with fans, and he thinks stafford is the guy to do it (after realizing the rams don't have enough to offer for watson). i give it two seasons at most before the rams crash into the basement for at least five years.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Does that mean I should be bummed to be a Seahawks fan since Stafford and Wilson are the same age?

With many great QBs proving that they can play until 38-40 you never really know... but also Stafford didn’t really accomplish anything up until this point, and I’m not sure how many QBs wait until they’re 33-35 to suddenly start being taken seriously as a QB capable of winning a super bowl.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Just did some research, 10 QBs have played in the super bowl aged 34 or older. Three of recent - Brady, Manning, Warner

 

[bono_212]

Does that mean I should be bummed to be a Seahawks fan since Stafford and Wilson are the same age?

Exactly, but I'll add to my thought on that in a moment below.

kroenke intends to go all-in for a run when the new stadium properly opens with fans, and he thinks stafford is the guy to do it (after realizing the rams don't have enough to offer for watson).

Yeah, this is what I was getting at: The Rams want to win a super bowl in their new stadium. No way they had enough for Watson. This was a great second option.

With many great QBs proving that they can play until 38-40 you never really know... but also Stafford didn’t really accomplish anything up until this point, and I’m not sure how many QBs wait until they’re 33-35 to suddenly start being taken seriously as a QB capable of winning a super bowl.

Stafford hasn't accomplished anything besides being one of the best QBs in the league, despite playing for one of the worst teams. He still has time and likely several more playoff appearances in his future. The only shame for him is it took this long for him to escape Detroit.

 

[bono_212]

Just did some research, 10 QBs have played in the super bowl aged 34 or older. Three of recent - Brady, Manning, Warner

...That would then represent 7 of the last 10 Super Bowls.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

The Rams got better and the Lions got worse.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

...That would then represent 7 of the last 10 Super Bowls.

Or an easier explanation is two of the greatest QBs ever dominated the decade? Heck, remove Brady from the bunch and you’re now talking 1/10. And let’s not forget how god awful Peyton Manning was winning a super bowl with Denver.

To simply pass off Brady’s greatness as anything less than an enigma is incredibly unfair.

 

[Hewson]

For everyone saying the Rams got hosed...they unloaded Goff.
Might be the single greatest move in league history.

Surprised the Lions were willing to take him and that contract, I assume just punting on the next 2 years then cut him after 2022 when there's no dead cap hit, have 2 first rounders to use in each of 22 and 23 which will likely be one high (their) and one in the mid to late 20s (Rams).

Rams just opened a 2 year window, saved a few bucks, but mortgaged the future big time, what's that 4 years without a 1st rounder now thanks to the Ramsey and Stafford deals?
Some FAs may be enticed to go there and play with Stafford and Donald and Co., but they'll have to do it on the cheap.
And you still have Stafford's back to be concerned about.
I see Rams being good (which they already were) for the next 2 seasons but not winning it all and then falling into the abyss.
Lions....well they're the Lions.

 

[bono_212]

Or an easier explanation is two of the greatest QBs ever dominated the decade? Heck, remove Brady from the bunch and you’re now talking 1/10. And let’s not forget how god awful Peyton Manning was winning a super bowl with Denver.

To simply pass off Brady’s greatness as anything less than an enigma is incredibly unfair.

I'm just saying, you introduced a fairly meaningless statistic into the conversation by saying only two QBs over 34 have made the super bowl recently and neglected to mention that that represented the AFC for the vast majority of that time period. Not to mention leaving out how many QBs over 34 have been to the championship game recently, made the playoffs recently, won their division recently, etc. It's been a common talking point of the last several seasons, that there's a huge divide in the ages of the most successful QBs in the league. They're either in their first three/four seasons, or they're getting pretty deep into their 30s/40s.

At the end of the day, only two QBs are making the Super Bowl. And for a decade, those appearances were pretty much dominated by players over the age of 34 on one side of the league. Even if it was a single player most of the time, he is certainly NOT the only successful +34 QB in the league, unless we're going back to this idea that the only successful QB is a Super Bowl winning QB, to which I return to my thoughts on that topic from last week.

I just absolutely can't get behind the idea that Stafford's not going to make an impact on the Rams when he's been pretty much exactly the same player, statistically speaking, his entire career, on one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL. The worst team?

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I'm just saying, you introduced a fairly meaningless statistic into the conversation by saying only two QBs over 34 have made the super bowl recently and neglected to mention that that represented the AFC for the vast majority of that time period. Not to mention leaving out how many QBs over 34 have been to the championship game recently, made the playoffs recently, won their division recently, etc. It's been a common talking point of the last several seasons, that there's a huge divide in the ages of the most successful QBs in the league. They're either in their first three/four seasons, or they're getting pretty deep into their 30s/40s.

At the end of the day, only two QBs are making the Super Bowl. And for a decade, those appearances were pretty much dominated by players over the age of 34 on one side of the league. Even if it was a single player most of the time, he is certainly NOT the only successful +34 QB in the league, unless we're going back to this idea that the only successful QB is a Super Bowl winning QB, to which I return to my thoughts on that topic from last week.

I just absolutely can't get behind the idea that Stafford's not going to make an impact on the Rams when he's been pretty much exactly the same player, statistically speaking, his entire career, on one of the worst teams in the history of the NFL. The worst team?

Except my original message clearly caveated the points you’re making by saying age of QBs in recent times.

It’s not a meaningless statistic, it is a statement of fact that highlights that most QBs don’t play late into their career because of a list of reasons... health, talent decline, opportunity, etc. but also I don’t know what you’re saying with some trade between winning young or winning old. We aren’t seeing that at all. Since the year 2000, QBs over the age of 32 playing in the super bowl account for 11 of the 42 QBs. Of those 11, 5 have been Brady, 3 Manning, Kurt Warner... Brad Johnson and Rick Gannon (20 years ago against one another in one of the most atypical Super Bowls of the past two decades).

Though I could be misinterpreting your statement of “championship game” if you’re referring to AFC/NFC championships. But the point here is that yes you can see QBs winning at old ages, but history doesn’t support the idea of the super bowl being a place for older QBs if you’re not talking about otherwise the greatest players to ever play the position.

 

[LemonMelon]

The Rams definitely got better with that trade, but if they didn't improve to the point where they could keep up with the Chiefs/Bucs/Packers, I don't see the move as a worthwhile one. They have one goal and they came within a couple scores of reaching that goal with Goff once before, so how much higher is their ceiling now that they've mortgaged their future (again)?

But that's a glass half empty way of looking at things. They had no chance of winning it all with Goff and now they have a slightly better chance. Not much else you can realistically do if you're in the market to win now.

 

[mikal]

The Rams definitely got better with that trade, but if they didn't improve to the point where they could keep up with the Chiefs/Bucs/Packers, I don't see the move as a worthwhile one. They have one goal and they came within a couple scores of reaching that goal with Goff once before, so how much higher is their ceiling now that they've mortgaged their future (again)?

But that's a glass half empty way of looking at things. They had no chance of winning it all with Goff and now they have a slightly better chance. Not much else you can realistically do if you're in the market to win now.

Agreed. If anything, I just feel really good for Stafford to be able to get out of Detroit and spend the last few years of his career in LA.

And as a Packers fan, even if we do move on from Rodgers, there's a good chance we'll do have the best QB in the division.