LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Who da best 1-2 punch? Lebron-Davis?
NBA 2019-20 Thread
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Today or all time?
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
In what time frame? In the 21st century? Shaq/Kobe, without much competition tbh.
Ever? As a lifelong Bulls fan, I'm completely biased, but I'll take MJ/Scottie. Six titles don't lie.
iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
Steph/Klay/KD is the best big three I've seen. Between the three of them, they could do everything at an elite level.
In terms of duos, I think Magic-Kareem has to be way up there, if not the best ever.
In terms of duos, I think Magic-Kareem has to be way up there, if not the best ever.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
I was working with “this century” - Shaq-Kobe is definitely the most synergistic pair without a doubt. Suppose this begs the same point as the big 3... best individual players or most prolific trio.
I’m going with the last one for the trio so I suppose I should’ve for the duo, definitely Shaq-Kobe.
I’m going with the last one for the trio so I suppose I should’ve for the duo, definitely Shaq-Kobe.
since the 2000s it's shaq and kobe and it isn't really close. what every person under the age of 25 forgets is that kobe was inarguably the 2nd best player of that duo while they were together.
I'd put KD and Steph second. Lebron & Wade third (and it's not because of lebron). Lebron & AD will push past Lebron/Wade if they can win again this year and push KD/Steph for 2nd.
all time? no, i do not in any way put MJ/Scottie as #1. MJ was so much better than Scottie. That wasn't a 1A and 1B, it was a 1A and a 2. Scottie was a great fit next to jordan. He was a complimentary player but not an alpha. History has elevated his stature. I can't think of anyone outside of Chicago who watched all those Bulls battles with the Knicks, Jazz, Sonics, Pacers, Pistons, Suns, Blazers, etc. who ever said "ya know who's the second best player on the court? Scottie." I'll fight anyone to the grave on this one. I'll put 'em on the list by default, but they're on the list because of one player and honestly that's not meant as a slight at Scottie - he was very good, a hall of famer - but some people try and put him in the top 20 of all time and that's just obscene.
Kareem/Magic, Bird/McHale, Kareem/Oscar, Stockton/Malone, West/Baylor, Shaq/Kobe, KD/Steph, Lebron/Wade, Lebron/AD, and yea MJ/Scottie.
Jerry West and Elgin Baylor would probably be #1 if they didn't have to go through the Celtics every year - but their lack of a title together holds them down.
I'd probably say Oscar & Kareem/Alcindor. They were a dominant presence in their short time together. If we need to include longevity than I would probably pivot to Shaq and Kobe.
Bron and Wade could have been up there if Bron had gotten there a little bit earlier. Wade was still very good when lebron arrived, but he wasn't his best and got worse as their time went on. With lebron and AD it could be the opposite... but, ya know, we'll see how long his magic stuff lasts.
If KD didn't tear his Achilles and had the third title, i'd probably have to slide KD/Steph up as well - but they clearly had quite a bit of help on that roster.
so yea - short term? Kareem and Robertson in their prime is tough to beat. If you want to give weight for doing it over a long period? Shaq and Kobe.
I'd put KD and Steph second. Lebron & Wade third (and it's not because of lebron). Lebron & AD will push past Lebron/Wade if they can win again this year and push KD/Steph for 2nd.
all time? no, i do not in any way put MJ/Scottie as #1. MJ was so much better than Scottie. That wasn't a 1A and 1B, it was a 1A and a 2. Scottie was a great fit next to jordan. He was a complimentary player but not an alpha. History has elevated his stature. I can't think of anyone outside of Chicago who watched all those Bulls battles with the Knicks, Jazz, Sonics, Pacers, Pistons, Suns, Blazers, etc. who ever said "ya know who's the second best player on the court? Scottie." I'll fight anyone to the grave on this one. I'll put 'em on the list by default, but they're on the list because of one player and honestly that's not meant as a slight at Scottie - he was very good, a hall of famer - but some people try and put him in the top 20 of all time and that's just obscene.
Kareem/Magic, Bird/McHale, Kareem/Oscar, Stockton/Malone, West/Baylor, Shaq/Kobe, KD/Steph, Lebron/Wade, Lebron/AD, and yea MJ/Scottie.
Jerry West and Elgin Baylor would probably be #1 if they didn't have to go through the Celtics every year - but their lack of a title together holds them down.
I'd probably say Oscar & Kareem/Alcindor. They were a dominant presence in their short time together. If we need to include longevity than I would probably pivot to Shaq and Kobe.
Bron and Wade could have been up there if Bron had gotten there a little bit earlier. Wade was still very good when lebron arrived, but he wasn't his best and got worse as their time went on. With lebron and AD it could be the opposite... but, ya know, we'll see how long his magic stuff lasts.
If KD didn't tear his Achilles and had the third title, i'd probably have to slide KD/Steph up as well - but they clearly had quite a bit of help on that roster.
so yea - short term? Kareem and Robertson in their prime is tough to beat. If you want to give weight for doing it over a long period? Shaq and Kobe.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Shoutout to my bias, HM “almost”, for one year only the combo of Shaq/Wade was pretty much Shaq with the last gas left in the tank and Wade about to hit his prime.
Err.. two seasons.
Err.. two seasons.
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Ahhhh one and a half.
Again just shows how dominant Shaq was. It's crazy how some players get elevated as time goes on (Scottie) and some get looked over (Shaq).
Again just shows how dominant Shaq was. It's crazy how some players get elevated as time goes on (Scottie) and some get looked over (Shaq).
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
As a Chicago native who has always hated the Bulls and felt the same way about Pippen, thank you.
iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
Magic and Kareem are two of the top ten players in NBA history, maybe two of the top five. I would think they have to be the best duo ever.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
It probably has a lot to do with how Shaq was such a physical monster. He’s otherwise perceived as a giant slab of meat, dumb hulk smash untalented brute kinda ball. Not the classical baller finesse that every kid aspired to have from Kobe. For the record I don’t think he was just a dumb brute, but that’s maybe sort of the perception.
Also probably a lot to do with his general lack of public ego. It was never really ‘Shaq’s team’ wherever he went. Just the team Shaq was on. Think about it.. Nash’s Phoenix, Wade/Riley’s Heat, Kobe’s Lakers, and that time he was in Kazaam.
Or maybe that’s just it... too young for Space Jam, not young enough to be part of LeBron James’ sad attempt at a Space Jam 2. No place in history for Shaq.
they're certainly on the list. i put Kareem/Oscar in front of them only because Kareem was at the end of his career by the time Magic came around, whereas he was in his dominant prime with Oscar. Still a great player, but not at his peak.
those early 2000s lakers teams were most definitely Shaq's lakers. they made the right call by moving shaq over kobe because shaq was running out of gas - but he did go and win another ring immediately after leaving LA, while the Lakers struggled for a few years until they were able to swindle Pao Gasol away.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Bill Russell and Bob Cousy have (slowly with the help of canes and walkers) entered the chat.
the sneaky winner of yesterday's craziness?
the indiana pacers.
the indiana pacers.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I think Cleveland did well also.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
I just have a bit of an issue with taking two people out of a trio and calling it a duo. Magic/Kareem had Worthy(from 82 onwards anyway), Bird/McHale had Parish, LeBron/Wade had Bosh, even Durant/Steph had Klay.
On the other hand, the next best player Kobe/Shaq had for any of their titles was Glen Rice in 2000, Kareem/Oscar didn't have a clear #3(I don't think), and MJ/Scottie's next best were Grant/Rodman. That ought to be taken into consideration IMO. Anyway, like I said, I'm completely biased, but I'll stand by MJ/Scottie; what other duo won six rings without a third star?
Some single-season duos to think about...Dr. J and Moses in 83, West and Wilt in 72(and they got to the finals again in 73), Hakeem and Drexler in 95.
Payton/Kemp never won anything, but they were pretty exciting to watch. Shaq/Penny could've been special if Shaq had stayed and Penny's knees hadn't fallen apart.
MJ-Rodman. Pippen was the third banana.
https://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-guide/
https://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-guide/
I can respect the argument that a big two who was actually a big three (or big four) shouldn't be counted if you can respect my argument that MJ/Scottie shouldn't be counted because big twos that are actually a big one shouldn't count
Third wheel on those Milwaukee teams was Bobby Dandridge - who then went on to be the third wheel on the Bullets title team. He has the most points scored in the playoffs in the 70s. He's now the head of the Wizards/Bullets alumni association, which is an exciting fact to absolutely nobody here but I shared none the less.
I turn to some random blogger in response to Pippen being raked 21st of all time on ESPN's most recent list.
Scottie was good. Scottie was also not a top 5 player in the league when he played, and it's debatable if he was top 10 at any point.
Just in the mid to late 90s... in no particular order
Jordan
Olajuwon
Ewing
Robinson
Malone
Kemp
Payton
Miller
Drexler
Stockton
Barkley
Shaq
I'm leaving out guys like Penny, Grant Hill and Alonzo Mourning on the tail end and Dumars, Dominique, Magic, Isiah at the start.
Yet somehow ESPN had the balls to rate him 21st all time? GTFO.
Scottie was good. Scottie was also not a top 5 player in the league when he played, and it's debatable if he was top 10 at any point.
Just in the mid to late 90s... in no particular order
Jordan
Olajuwon
Ewing
Robinson
Malone
Kemp
Payton
Miller
Drexler
Stockton
Barkley
Shaq
I'm leaving out guys like Penny, Grant Hill and Alonzo Mourning on the tail end and Dumars, Dominique, Magic, Isiah at the start.
Yet somehow ESPN had the balls to rate him 21st all time? GTFO.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Ok but which three bulls did you pick in NBA Hangtime for N64? Gotta take one of Kukoc, Longley, or Kerr.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Believe it or not, I actually agree that top 20 is probably too high for Scottie, but he's still top 50. In fact, I'd probably put him in the 30-40 range.
He was one of the most complete players ever - his only real weakness is was that he wasn't a great shooter, and he was merely a good scorer rather than a great one.
But he was the GOAT perimeter defender IMO, an elite playmaker as the point-forward for all those championship teams, one of the best rebounders in the game at his position(he was top 10 in RPG for SFs 7 years in a row from 91-97, and top 5 4 years in a row from 92-95), and a consistent ~20ppg scorer, give or take a couple points.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
Not sure I understand the question...Hangtime was a 2-on-2 game. Since MJ wasn't in the game, it was usually Pippen-Rodman or Pippen-Kukoc, with Kerr subbed in if I needed the shooting.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Strange, for some reason I thought it had 2 on 2 and 3 on 3.
But yes the answer is awkwardly Kerr because he was insanely good at threes hahaha
But yes the answer is awkwardly Kerr because he was insanely good at threes hahaha
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
But also I was like 5 years old so don’t fault me.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Another tough season for the resident haters:
The Lakers’ New Beginnings Are Even Better Than Their Championship Finish
Once again, the silence here is deafening; you'd think we were in the off-season still.
The Lakers’ New Beginnings Are Even Better Than Their Championship Finish
Once again, the silence here is deafening; you'd think we were in the off-season still.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
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Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
The author conveniently neglects the fact that of their 15 games (which is far too small a sample size anyway), they've played a whopping 1 against a team that would be a top 4 seed in either conference. (Clippers who beat them)
Building your resume against the Houstons, Minnesotas and Memphises of the league is a house of cards.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Didn’t someone (maybe you) make this same case last season...before they went on to win the title?
If that reasoning helps you sleep at night, good for you I guess.
It’s just funny that for people who like to analyze basketball, the convo always seems to dry up when it the Lakers who are doing really well.
If that reasoning helps you sleep at night, good for you I guess.
It’s just funny that for people who like to analyze basketball, the convo always seems to dry up when it the Lakers who are doing really well.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
He also wrote off the Miami Heat in playoffs after the first two rounds [emoji14]
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