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Old 06-06-2016, 09:40 AM   #241
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One of the greatest AFL players of all time turned his hand to coaching. And he single-handedly destroyed the club, ruined his own name and brought the entire code into disrepute. So I hear you.
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:04 AM   #242
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True. The untalented (you know) players who had to teach themselves to be good are where it's at.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:11 AM   #243
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There's a reason why, Larry Bird aside, the majority of players turned great coaches were role players
Spending alot of time on the bench is a great teacher (for the right individual)..
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:05 PM   #244
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The Warriors are frighteningly good in transition. Pretty much any long rebound is going to turn into a 3 or an and-1. Cleveland has to find a way to slow that transition game or every game is going to be a 20-point loss.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:26 PM   #245
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Would be yet another side effect of an offense that is largely stationary and isolation based.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:40 PM   #246
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Opinion of LeBron specifically aside, most stars make awful coaches. There's a reason why, Larry Bird aside, the majority of players turned great coaches were role players
Similar to why catchers (and often back up catchers at that) seem to be the only MLB players who translate to being decent managers. Catchers are not often the most gifted athlete on a diamond (we all probably knew a fat kid who got stuck behind the plate in Little League or in neighborhood pick up games), and to become a major leaguer have to be better students of the game than the "natural" roaming the outfield, SS and 1B.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:43 PM   #247
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When LeBron is frustrated, he does dumb things.
We see his reaction of utter disbelief nearly every time he is whistled for a foul, imagine that attitude as a head coach. Dude would be ejected 82 games a season.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:51 PM   #248
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My question was *somewhat* hypothetical. I don't follow basketball closely enough to really care or respond to his points. I was sorta just spitballing. I'd like to hear from others too, though. Cos whilst I know Headache is hella knowledgable on the sport, he's also biased. You'd have thought Miami Heat were the spawn of Satan the way he talked about them in the 2012 & 13 Finals.

Like I can only compare it to my own sports leagues that I actually follow back here, and there's teams I hate - and there are probably cultural/structural differences that I'm not aware of - but it doesn't blind me, yknow? I haaaaate the team that has won the past three AFL grand finals, but I respect the shit out of them, because they're so good.
I don't pretend to like the guy. I just shared my particular reasons for disliking him. They're not exactly unique to me, either.

I actually was cautiously optimistic about his return to Cleveland. Thought it could have been a terrific story with a more mature James returning home. Just turned out to be more of the same, though.
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:57 PM   #249
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:57 PM   #250
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Would be yet another side effect of an offense that is largely stationary and isolation based.
It wasn't like that in the first three rounds, though. There was relatively little iso ball, except when they got in trouble against Toronto. I think Lue is trying to slow the game down, but it's taking them out of their normal rhythm.
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Old 06-06-2016, 01:00 PM   #251
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It wasn't like that in the first three rounds, though. There was relatively little iso ball, except when they got in trouble against Toronto. I think Lue is trying to slow the game down, but it's taking them out of their normal rhythm.
Well, those teams sucked.
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:22 PM   #252
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Opinion of LeBron specifically aside, most stars make awful coaches. There's a reason why, Larry Bird aside, the majority of players turned great coaches were role players
I think that's the case in most sports. I can't really think, off the top of my head, of a superstar player who later became a good coach.
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:24 PM   #253
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I don't see LeBron having the right temperament to be a coach, regardless of how high he tells us his basketball IQ is.

He'd purposely go to the worst team imaginable so he could exert as much control as possible.
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:41 PM   #254
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I think that's the case in most sports. I can't really think, off the top of my head, of a superstar player who later became a good coach.
There are a few soccer players... Zinedine Zidane is having good success. Maradona gave it a whirl but wasn't anything to write home about.

Ted Williams had an okay managerial career but ultimately grew frustrated that the guys he was as coaching couldn't do what he did and gave it up.

The true superstar player is able to do things that other players can't even dream of doing. They have a natural ability that you can't teach, and usually have a drive for greatness that even most professional athletes can't possibly match. It becomes difficult for that to translate into coaching.

The role player who needs to figure things out a little more in order to survive, the pass first point guard... the guys who need to understand a little more of what's going on. They've historically made the best coaches.

Think Steve Kerr, Doc Rivers, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley.

Bill Russell won a couple championships as player coach in Boston, but flamed out elsewhere.

Magic was a disaster.

Lenny Wilkens and Larry Bird are the obvious exceptions.
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Old 06-06-2016, 05:04 PM   #255
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I think that's the case in most sports. I can't really think, off the top of my head, of a superstar player who later became a good coach.

Patrick Roy is off to a decent start. Gretzky wasn't terrible. Wasn't good, but wasn't bad. Don't think he had tons to work with.
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Old 06-06-2016, 05:25 PM   #256
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Patrick Roy is off to a decent start. Gretzky wasn't terrible. Wasn't good, but wasn't bad. Don't think he had tons to work with.
But the measure of success is championships or, at the very least, consistent playoff appearances or deep runs. And by that metric, most superstar players never become good coaches.

I wonder if Peyton will become a coach and how he can translate his high football IQ to that role.
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Old 06-06-2016, 05:30 PM   #257
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I can't think of any good reason why Peyton would be a bad coach. At the very least, he would be a terrific offensive coordinator, he's been in that role for years.
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Old 06-06-2016, 06:28 PM   #258
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It's obviously not a guarantee, but it's close.

But even if, say, someone like LeBron could make a good coach; why would he want to? Guy's gonna be a billionaire. He really wants to sit up all night scouting and watching game tape?
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Old 06-06-2016, 06:59 PM   #259
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Joe Torre was a great player and later a great manager.
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Old 06-06-2016, 07:02 PM   #260
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But the measure of success is championships or, at the very least, consistent playoff appearances or deep runs. And by that metric, most superstar players never become good coaches.

I wonder if Peyton will become a coach and how he can translate his high football IQ to that role.


And I would imagine both Gretzky and Roy are far too young to have their cases closed just yet.

Also, depends where you're setting your bar. Lots of great players were coaches or are coaches. Trottier. Gallant. Just two that come to mind.
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