MLB 2017 Thread

[the tourist]

Didn't realize we were being testy or standoffish here. I'd rather be a Mariner's fan right now and it's not even a question. Baseball is pretty much dead to me.

Grass is always greener. I’d trade going through what you are right now but with two world championships in exchange for an organization that has never even gone to a WS and has barely come close in 41 seasons. You traded Stanton? We traded Randy Johnson. We wasted Ichiro. You traded Ozuna? We traded Griffey. We wasted Felix. Because the ownership were cheap.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Grass is always greener. I’d trade going through what you are right now but with two world championships in exchange for an organization that has never even gone to a WS and has barely come close in 41 seasons. You traded Stanton? We traded Randy Johnson. We wasted Ichiro. You traded Ozuna? We traded Griffey. We wasted Felix. Because the ownership were cheap.

Ichiro, of the 2000s. Remind me when you traded Randy Johnson? Griffey? A-Rod?

I was tipping my hat acknowledging just how rough a playoff drought like that is. If anything, I'd imagine a more sympathetic conversation rather than some strange competition. So your franchise has experienced similar things (the returns were arguably a lot more respectable). Right now? Right now it's the Marlins going through that. This whole conversation stemmed from "right now."

 

[the tourist]

Ichiro, of the 2000s. Remind me when you traded Randy Johnson? Griffey? A-Rod?

I was tipping my hat acknowledging just how rough a playoff drought like that is. If anything, I'd imagine a more sympathetic conversation rather than some strange competition. So your franchise has experienced similar things (the returns were arguably a lot more respectable). Right now? Right now it's the Marlins going through that. This whole conversation stemmed from "right now."

That’s all an accumulation effect of bad decision-making though which leads us to right now, the longest playoff drought in baseball. One of two to never play in the World Series. I’d kill to have an ownership with the balls to destroy the major league team and payroll to build up the minor league system (through trade, and if you think your trades were bad, draft position - like how the Nationals and Astros got good). I’d also kill to root for a team that has won the World Series 2 times in the last 20 years. And probably will again before my team even gets to the ALCS. You may think you have it bad right now, but you have lived through two championships. The Mariners, in contrast, are the Cleveland Browns.

I mean, it’s probably not great to lose Stanton and Ozuna. I lost Johnson in ‘97, Griffey in ‘98, A-Rod in ‘00, so it’s not like it was all at once, but that’s 3 guys who are in the conversation for top 5 at their position in history (if not the absolute best), all in a row due to cheap ownership.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Ichiro, of the 2000s. Remind me when you traded Randy Johnson? Griffey? A-Rod?

I was tipping my hat acknowledging just how rough a playoff drought like that is. If anything, I'd imagine a more sympathetic conversation rather than some strange competition. So your franchise has experienced similar things (the returns were arguably a lot more respectable). Right now? Right now it's the Marlins going through that. This whole conversation stemmed from "right now."

But that's the issue that you're missing...

Unless you're 3, there is no "right now" in sports.

You've won 2 titles in 20 years. Sure, the last one was 15 years ago, so it's getting up there.

But not a single damn fan of any team that's been waiting for 30, 40 plus years, or forever in some cases, is going to have shred of sympathy over your "right now" because you won two titles in recent history, especially when some of our teams are pretty fucked up themselves.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

But that's the issue that you're missing...

Unless you're 3, there is no "right now" in sports.

I'm not missing anything. You've just chosen to interpret this in some fashion. Of course there's a "right now." That's all just your perspective. I'm 25. The 97 World Series means nothing to me, I was 5. The 2003 World Series was the first year I ever went to a baseball game and subsequently followed baseball. I was 11. So new to baseball prepubescent me got to experience a championship. But that's besides the point... this was never about personal grievance, looking for pity, or making some case that *I* have it worse than *you.* My age and your age have nothing to do with this.

The cheapskates that are currently running your franchise are piecing together better prospect pools, better pitching rotations, and better lineups. They have a more clear cut idea of what they want for the future. "Right now" your guys are running their franchise far better than the Marlins are.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

They have a more clear cut idea of what they want for the future. .

This is the craziest thing you've ever said.

 

[Hewson]

I mean, it’s probably not great to lose Stanton and Ozuna. .

Yeah probably not

 

[LuckyNumber7]

This is the craziest thing you've ever said.

Subway makes good food

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Miguel Sano retire bitch

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Subway makes good food

Still not as crazy

 

[LuckyNumber7]

For the record I think subway is disgusting.

 

[Hewson]

For the record I think subway is disgusting.

Their bread is good.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Fuck off no it's not. It's acceptable.

 

[Hewson]

Fuck off no it's not. It's acceptable.

It was a backhanded compliment.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

This is the moment I stopped going to Subway forever...

Subway says a chemical also found in yoga mats will be completely phased out of its bread as of next week.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

It was a backhanded compliment.

It was a British response

 

[Hewson]

This is the moment I stopped going to Subway forever...

That should be reason to go, not stay away.

Rubber free bread for everyone!

 

[MrPryck2U]

Chipper Jones, Trevor Hoffman, Vladimir Guerrero, and Jim Thome...

... Cooperstown awaits.


Another year of no Bonds and Clemens. 2 of the most elite players in the history of the game. Never failed a test. Never a fan of them, although Clemens spent several seasons in the Bronx, both of them kinda seemed like assholes. Regardless of substances allegedly utilized, one still has to hit or throw the ball well to succeed. And they did both with a greatness that can only be punctuated with a Hall of Fame induction.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

That Bonds isn't a hall of famer is an obscene joke

 

[Hewson]

That Bonds isn't a hall of famer is an obscene joke

Same thing for Clemens,

You've got obvious juicers like Bagwell, Pudge Rodriguez, Piazza, Griffey Jr. and Biggio in there, Bonds & Clemens are far more deserving than any of them.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Same thing for Clemens,



You've got obvious juicers like Bagwell, Pudge Rodriguez, Piazza, Griffey Jr. and Biggio in there, Bonds & Clemens are far more deserving than any of them.

Obvious juicers?

I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's fair to call someone whose speculation of juicing exists only by the fact that "everyone else was."

 

[DaveC]

it's hardly speculation... piazza and griffey both admitted it in the past, bagwell more or less did just last week, pudge was called out in canseco's book. the only one on that list that might rightly be called speculation is biggio.

bonds and clemens are assholes and PED users but so is ty cobb and nobody in their right mind would say he shouldn't be in the hall. like mr pryck said, you still have to hit or throw the ball well. if it was all steroids every meathead at the local gym who's wider than they are tall would be babe ruth.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

When did they admit this in the past?

 

[Gzusfrk]

I go back and forth with this. I am a huge lifelong Cubs fan who was enraptured with Sammy Sosa for all those glorious years. The 1998 home run duel with McGuire was legendary. But it's all tainted.

On the flipside, how far do we go? Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb played in a era when half the population of the greatest players were not allowed to play. Ruth not having to face Satchel Paige and others? His numbers may have been different too. But we'll never know. But we don't keep them out of the Hall for it.

So I don't know, I'm kinda torn. I HATE Barry Bonds and his incredibly growing head! But I don't know.

 

[DaveC]

When did they admit this in the past?

piazza: BASEBALL; Steroid Use Becomes a Topic of Discussion in Clubhouses - The New York Times

Piazza has said he briefly used androstenedione early in his career, stopping when he did not see a drastic change in his muscle mass. He said he had never used steroids because ''I hit the ball as far in high school as I do now.''

griffey i may be mistaken on, there are several questionable sites that say he admitted back in 2009 to taking them when healing from injuries but i can't find a legitimate source for it so i'll take that one back.

bagwell was asked about other PED users and about the suspicions around him, and he danced around the subject and refused to deny it. pretty sus if you ask me. Jeff Bagwell dances around PED issue after being voted into Hall - NY Daily News

in any case i do think all these players, plus bonds and clemens, should absolutely be in the hall of fame, and it's utterly ridiculous and hypocritical to keep them out over some convoluted sense of ethics or morality, but to vote in other known users of various substances through the years.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Well I think they should all be in the HoF too. My initial comment was referring to just KGJr though, but even in the case of Piazza, if you're talking about guys with clean track records who have never tested positive and never shown up on any credible reports, even if the writing is on the wall and they might be guilty, I don't see how it's fair to call them "obvious juicers." Even in the case of Piazza with that quote.

 

[DaveC]

he freely admitted to the new york times to taking andro for the express purpose of enhancing his performance. i'm not sure how much more obvious it gets than that.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

he freely admitted to the new york times to taking andro for the express purpose of enhancing his performance. i'm not sure how much more obvious it gets than that.

Ambiguously early in his career (when?) for an ambiguously short period of time.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

This is the first I've ever heard of Griffey being a "confirmed" steroid/PED user. I always thought it was common knowledge that he was clean.

 

[MrPryck2U]

I've never heard of Junior being linked to PED's either.