London 2012 Summer Olympics

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So, is Shiwen doping or what? I don't know enough about Olympic records to claim that a 5 second improvement on a previous best/topping the world record by a full second is impossible, but it's insane in any case.

My cynicism tells me they're ALL doping, which is probably right. Nonetheless.
 
LemonMelon said:
So, is Shiwen doping or what? I don't know enough about Olympic records to claim that a 5 second improvement on a previous best/topping the world record by a full second is impossible, but it's insane in any case.

My cynicism tells me they're ALL doping, which is probably right. Nonetheless.

The fact that her freestyle split in the 400 IM was as fast as Lochte, certainly raised my suspicions given
Their previous infractions. However, that much of a drop isn't completely unheard of so I will believe she is clean.
 
Every time a Chinese swimmer does well allegations of drugs/doping comes out. Stephanie Rice knocked six seconds off a PB in 08.

That's because of their history. Chinese swimmers were caught doping en masse at the world championships in 1994 and 1998. 27 athletes were cut before the start of the Sydney games in 2000. There was a huge dropoff in Chinese dominance following those scandals, and now they're back on top. It's not exactly derp racism derp derp to raise eyebrows in this one instance. That's nothing to say about assumptions, but it would be naive not to question.

I really just can't get my head around the idea of a little 16 year old girl being faster in the water than Ryan Lochte. His wingspan alone should give him several seconds on her.
 
I really just can't get my head around the idea of a little 16 year old girl being faster in the water than Ryan Lochte. His wingspan alone should give him several seconds on her.

I don't really have an opinion on this - especially since so many people passing swift judgement aren't exactly in informed positions to know, and I know I'm not either - but I thought this article made a good point on the Lochte comparison:

It was a barnstormer of a swim. 'Faster than Lochte' headlines flashed around the world and, suddenly, a 16-year-old girl was quicker than a full-grown US superman. It's juicy and accurate, to a point. But surgically removing one stat from a 400m swimming race and seizing upon it has warped perceptions and conclusion.

That freestyle leg was dazzling but Ye isn't faster than Lochte. Not even close. Lochte's winning time in the men's 400m IM was 4.05.18, compared to Ye's 4.28.43. That's a difference of 23.25 seconds. And Lochte's lead-off relay sprint for the US men's team was 47.89, a number to which Ye couldn't get close despite being a gun freestyler.

The manner in which the races were swum adds another layer. Lochte had the race in hand by the time he turned on the freestyle leg. His other three strokes were good enough to give him a gold-medal lead and there was no clear and present danger ranging up on either side.

Ye had to hit the burners to motor past Beisel. She turned more than a body length behind and had to push with everything she had to catch the American. By the time she did that, it must have been clear a world record was within reach and she drove it home with Black Caviar authority. In any case, four other male swimmers did beat Ye's freestyle split.

And while I'm posting links, now this is admirable sportsmanship from a couple of Pommie divers: Daley sticks by partner after disappointment | Stuff.co.nz
 
Thanks for that article, Ax. Offers a different perspective, which is essential for me since I don't know what I'm talking about really.
 
Thanks for that article, Ax. Offers a different perspective, which is essential for me since I don't know what I'm talking about really.

Yeah, it's one of the few articles I've seen that has a bit more depth to it than "overly good performance is overly good; she be dopin'!" or "lol u racist hippocrite, just 'cause she's Chinese".
 
I love these memes.

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LemonMelon said:
So, is Shiwen doping or what? I don't know enough about Olympic records to claim that a 5 second improvement on a previous best/topping the world record by a full second is impossible, but it's insane in any case.

My cynicism tells me they're ALL doping, which is probably right. Nonetheless.


It's not her overall improvement that's freaky, it's that her last 100 was faster than most of the men in the exact same event, and her last 50 was faster than Lochte.

She's no doping. Her coaches and the government might be doping her.

I generally think swimming is as clean as it gets, which is to say that it's not clean, but it is rare for someone to fail a drug test. Unless you're a Chinese female and you get caught with viles of HGH stuffed in a teddy bear after the 1998 Worlds in Perth. Steroids were rampantly used by the GDR, but they make men too big to swim fast. Hence, fast women and average men (GDR and China to a lesser extent). Today I assume it's HGH and EPO.

Something was up with that final 100. It's shocking.
 
cobl04 said:
Every time a Chinese swimmer does well allegations of drugs/doping comes out. Stephanie Rice knocked six seconds off a PB in 08.

Yes, but all her splits were in context, whereas it was Ye's last 100 that was unfathomable. Everything she swam before then was world class but within range of what women swim in 2012, and then she took off at the end of the hardest event in swimming.

Rice was young, like Ye, but 2008 was the beginning of the super-suit era, which is now cnsidered technological doping. The suits did different thi gs to different swimmers. They helped her enormously. As they did to Beiderman (GER) and Kukors (USA), as for 2 examples.
 
Axver said:
I don't really have an opinion on this - especially since so many people passing swift judgement aren't exactly in informed positions to know, and I know I'm not either - but I thought this article made a good point on the Lochte comparison:


That article gets it totally wrong. It's exactly because Lochte clobbers her on all the other strokes that makes her fast-as-his freestyle all that much more suspicious. It was swum at the end of a 400 IM where the two should be equally as tired.

That Author doesn't know a thin about swimming.
 
I'd love a silver or bronze. Gold is just a bonus and should be treated as such when it comes to individual Olympic sports. If Seebohm cries so be it, but surely the most disgusting thing about the whole thing is that Ch 9 would rather focus on the devastation of the loser, rather than the glory and brilliance of the winner.

Maybe we Aussies don't really "love our winners" as we are mythologically imagined to.
 
That article gets it totally wrong. It's exactly because Lochte clobbers her on all the other strokes that makes her fast-as-his freestyle all that much more suspicious. It was swum at the end of a 400 IM where the two should be equally as tired.

That Author doesn't know a thin about swimming.

Obviously you know a shitload more about swimming than I do, but I'm not clear how that rebuts two of the article's points that struck me as pretty decent: 1. Lochte at that stage of the race didn't have to go all-out to win (and when he did in another race, he beat her time) while she did, and 2. other male swimmers did swim the freestyle leg of the 400 IM faster than she did, but all the attention has been on the Lochte comparison. How come you don't think those points are valid?
 
Latest installment in Axver Hates Channel Nine: They're still asking "what went wrong?" about that 4x100m freestyle men's relay, as if the gold was Australia's divinely ordained entitlement.

What went wrong? They weren't as good as three other relay teams on the day. Not that fucking hard to figure out.
 
Latest installment in Axver Hates Channel Nine: They're still asking "what went wrong?" about that 4x100m freestyle men's relay, as if the gold was Australia's divinely ordained entitlement.

What went wrong? They weren't as good as three other relay teams on the day. Not that fucking hard to figure out.

:up:

move on already channel 9, stop banging on about it and show some of the other live events instead of endlessly rehashing yesterdays news :gah:
 
:up:

move on already channel 9, stop banging on about it and show some of the other live events instead of endlessly rehashing yesterdays news :gah:

Utterly infuriating to know there's something on that I'd love to see, but Channel 9 can't be arsed showing it because one of their staff made a crappy montage about old news.

Also, wish they'd show us a new ad rather than all these fucking promos for Big Brother. Big Brother?! Is it still 2000?
 
Can we trade Andrew Gaze for Dwayne Russel for the basketball commentary?!

Although I wouldn't be surprised if he started calling the game with phrases like "shoots from 50 and "that was clearly a throw!"
 
Can we trade Andrew Gaze for Dwayne Russel for the basketball commentary?!

Although I wouldn't be surprised if he started calling the game with phrases like "shoots from 50 and "that was clearly a throw!"

CHAOS BALL!

clf
 
Showjumping very exciting and tense. Andrew Nicholson put in an awesome run for New Zealand - we're still in contention for a team eventing medal, though as I type I think Germany's just secured the gold. Mark Todd still to come, and if he has a clean round then he's guaranteed an individual eventing medal. God I hope he can do it.
 
Team eventing bronze to New Zealand! Our first medal for this Games. :up:

Also, compared to the petulant Aussie swimmers, one of the Pom equestrians gets it right: "Gold would've been brilliant but silver is fantastic."
 
Showjumping very exciting and tense. Andrew Nicholson put in an awesome run for New Zealand - we're still in contention for a team eventing medal, though as I type I think Germany's just secured the gold. Mark Todd still to come, and if he has a clean round then he's guaranteed an individual eventing medal. God I hope he can do it.

sorry about Mark Todd! i was torn, because i think he is so great, but Team GB's chances were hinging on him not going clear!

the German team are pretty amazing, so really happy with the silver for Britain! Sweden was definitely the equestrian surprise this time! was seriously worried in case Britain was going to be knocked out of the Bronze even!
 
sorry about Mark Todd! i was torn, because i think he is so great, but Team GB's chances were hinging on him not going clear!

Yeah, it was a shame he couldn't quite get a clean round, but god he did well with Campino. So chuffed that we snared bronze; that was a thrilling round of showjumping. Sounds like some of the British riders have impressive stories behind them, and I can't believe I'm seeing Mark Todd in the medals again after all these years.

Still the individual round later ... hope he can get a medal in that too, even if he's now an outside chance. Wish I could stay up for that.
 
It was exciting to see Great Britain win the silver in men's team gymnastics. Of course the only reason NBC showed it is because the American team fell apart. We also had endless shots of William and Harry cheering them on-not opposed to that really (especially Harry because he's just so cute) but it's as if they think that's the only way to keep us interested in a non US team.

I enjoyed the men's synchro diving too. Those are some tiny Speedos too, even smaller than the women's volleyball bikinis :ohmy: I love diving in general, even more than swimming.

Yesterday I managed a total blackout on results so it was much more interesting. Anyone know when the women's gymnastics is back on?
 
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