Coney Island would have fit right next to the Lana song on my DI playlist. Damn. And it could have been followed by Lou Reed’s Coney Island Baby.
Taylor Swift IS the new Arya Stark!
- Thread starter GirlsAloudFan
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Coney Island would have fit right next to the Lana song on my DI playlist. Damn. And it could have been followed by Lou Reed’s Coney Island Baby.
cobl04
45:33
I've not listened to the record, or folklore, because it's just too much new music for me to process, but yeah, that song is great.
cobl04
45:33
I'm getting sick of this trend of lowercase album and song titles though.
phanan
Blue Crack Addict
Bryan Devendorf’s propulsive drumming certainly stands out on the songs he’s on. That drum beat on Long Story Short, for example, sounds just like a National song.
And it’s great.
And it’s great.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
I suspect it's to tie these two albums together. I would be shocked if it's still there on her next album.
Also, this is my favorite song on the album:
In general I feel like she gave us an entire album of songs as good as "Enchanted" but this one especially reminds me of how much I love that song.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
GAF will be happy to learn that I listened to both of these 2020 TS albums, and really liked them a lot. I didn't expect the lyrics to be that good, in all honesty, not to mention the sophistication of many of the arrangements.
To my ears, both albums are considerably more impressive than this year's Haim album, which I already mentioned sounded pretty generic to me.
Both albums could probably stand to lose a track or two, but they're incredibly consistent. The only thing off Evermore that seemed redundant is probably Closure? But that could be a fatigue thing coming right before the memorable finale. Long Story Short is really catchy but maybe sonically doesn't belong. Wasn't a big fan of the opening track Willow, which is an odd choice for a lead single IMO.
Don't mind me, I'm new here.
My early favorites would be Happiness, Coney Island, Evermore, Dorothea, Ivy.
I need to hear Folklore again to evaluate because it's been a couple days and the other one is fresher in my mind.
There is one question I have, after consulting the Wiki pages: if Taylor is a multi-instrumentalist, how come she's only singing on both of these albums? I was under the impression she at least played guitar often? It seems odd for Aaron Dessner to have played nearly everything for her, even if he's the better musician. Does she play on her earlier albums? What happened, did she break her hand like Bono? Is Bono ok??
To my ears, both albums are considerably more impressive than this year's Haim album, which I already mentioned sounded pretty generic to me.
Both albums could probably stand to lose a track or two, but they're incredibly consistent. The only thing off Evermore that seemed redundant is probably Closure? But that could be a fatigue thing coming right before the memorable finale. Long Story Short is really catchy but maybe sonically doesn't belong. Wasn't a big fan of the opening track Willow, which is an odd choice for a lead single IMO.
Don't mind me, I'm new here.
My early favorites would be Happiness, Coney Island, Evermore, Dorothea, Ivy.
I need to hear Folklore again to evaluate because it's been a couple days and the other one is fresher in my mind.
There is one question I have, after consulting the Wiki pages: if Taylor is a multi-instrumentalist, how come she's only singing on both of these albums? I was under the impression she at least played guitar often? It seems odd for Aaron Dessner to have played nearly everything for her, even if he's the better musician. Does she play on her earlier albums? What happened, did she break her hand like Bono? Is Bono ok??
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bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
GAF could speak to this better than me, but she's definitely always had a backing band. I can't actually recall having ever seen her play an instrument, I would almost think the multi-instrumentalist tag is publicity fodder from her agent, and not an actual skill. But I might be very wrong.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Well it appears she's written a lot of songs by herself, without producers, over the course of her career. The whole Speak Now album was written by just her, and it looks like it was really on Red that she started writing more with an assortment of producers.
Therefore, she has to be able to legitimately play something, because those songs would be written either with a guitar or piano.
And she is listed as playing guitar on all her albums until Reputation, and she hasn't played an instrument on any of the albums from that one onward.
It's rather strange.
Therefore, she has to be able to legitimately play something, because those songs would be written either with a guitar or piano.
And she is listed as playing guitar on all her albums until Reputation, and she hasn't played an instrument on any of the albums from that one onward.
It's rather strange.
Popmartijn
Blue Crack Supplier
Oh, she can play. This is from earlier this year, when she performed Betty on an award show.
I guess it might be easier with everyone being separated in these times. If Aaron Dessner is already doing most of the instrumentation for a song then it's easier to add the guitar as well to it then for Taylor to record it from the other side of the USA.
I guess it might be easier with everyone being separated in these times. If Aaron Dessner is already doing most of the instrumentation for a song then it's easier to add the guitar as well to it then for Taylor to record it from the other side of the USA.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
I see what you're saying now. She is definitely a songwriter (and a great one).
I was certainly not trying to suggest she doesn't play, more, I don't think she plays to the level of doing both live.
Obviously she does sometimes though, I have now learned [emoji38].
OP
OP
GirlsAloudFan
Blue Crack Addict
Glad you liked the albums, Laz. If I had to choose between the two I think Folklore is the better album and more cohesive, memorable statement. But Evermore is a bit more sonically diverse and it's also damn good. We disagree on Willow, I love that track. Think the chorus is absolutely brilliant.
And haha yeah she plays guitar and piano. She almost exclusively rocked a 12-string guitar on her first couple albums and tours which I always thought was cool (and inspired me to buy a 12-string myself).
Just a few weeks ago they released an excellent film of Taylor, Dessner, and Antonoff performing every track from Folklore live at the National's studio. Taylor plays guitar on nearly every song. It's on Disney+, it's def worth watching.
And haha yeah she plays guitar and piano. She almost exclusively rocked a 12-string guitar on her first couple albums and tours which I always thought was cool (and inspired me to buy a 12-string myself).
Just a few weeks ago they released an excellent film of Taylor, Dessner, and Antonoff performing every track from Folklore live at the National's studio. Taylor plays guitar on nearly every song. It's on Disney+, it's def worth watching.
OP
OP
GirlsAloudFan
Blue Crack Addict
Ultimately, these are the quietest and most mature albums of her career. In many ways she just keeps getting better and this was a killer curveball to throw to her audience.
My two favorite albums of hers are (and probably always will be) Speak Now and Red.
It's funny, they mean so much to me so I could never really go back and listen to them with fresh ears. But I have a feeling if someone listened to Folklore/Evermore first and then went back and listened to some of the older stuff, the older stuff might seem a bit unsophisticated in comparison.
But I think everyone should listen to Speak Now and Red (Fearless is fucking great too). And 1989 is her most popular album so it's worth checking out, too. I personally don't love 1989 as much as the three albums that preceded it or the 2020 material, though.
My two favorite albums of hers are (and probably always will be) Speak Now and Red.
It's funny, they mean so much to me so I could never really go back and listen to them with fresh ears. But I have a feeling if someone listened to Folklore/Evermore first and then went back and listened to some of the older stuff, the older stuff might seem a bit unsophisticated in comparison.
But I think everyone should listen to Speak Now and Red (Fearless is fucking great too). And 1989 is her most popular album so it's worth checking out, too. I personally don't love 1989 as much as the three albums that preceded it or the 2020 material, though.
the tourist
Blue Crack Addict
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2003
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So I jumped in with Taylor at 1989, and that has been and probably will be my favorite. Folklore is definitely my second favorite. I haven’t spent enough time with evermore yet to know where it’ll land, but I’m probably in the super minority that my least favorite (of the albums I’ve heard) is Red (which is her earliest album of hers I’ve heard).
phanan
Blue Crack Addict
I’d love to see Taylor, at some point, do a complete 180 and make a guitar driven record, kind of in the vein of State Of Grace, which is one of my favorite songs of hers.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
I'm still partial to her early work. The debut isn't especially great but it has some iconic singles and a big heart. Fearless and Speak Now built on its formula impressively, giving us some classic tracks both for radio and for the fans. If you came of age in the late 2000s, Fearless seemed massive. And Speak Now is even better. Fucking hell Enchanted is good.
Red is a mixed bag for me and the production isn't aging well on some of the singles, but the sheer audaciousness and creativity of that record is hard to deny. It's got a little of everything. If I believed in the concept of guilty pleasures, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together would be one of them, but instead it's just a pleasure. Very fun album.
1989 has never clicked me with the way it has for others, but I've been listening to her since Fearless, so songs like Welcome to New York and Bad Blood hold very little interest for me. It's just not what I want from her. Quite a bit of that album sounds like music any pop star could have recorded, with some moments of clarity like Blank Space. Style fucking rules. It's a solid album for what it is.
Reputation is bad. There are maybe 2-3 songs I like and the rest is totally misguided. The only real flop of her career so far.
Lover is cool. I'd trim it down to 11 songs, but it was a big step in the right direction and had some of her best tunes in a while, like Cruel Summer, the title track and The Archer.
Folklore and Evermore are impressive pivots this late into her career and very well timed with everything going on in society and the music industry right now. I like that she's trying to reestablish herself as a great songwriter after Reputation sullied hers, and I think she's choosing really good collaborators. Of the two, I prefer Evermore, but there are really good songs on both (Mirrorball, August, Betty, Gold Rush, Dorothea, Evermore).
Red is a mixed bag for me and the production isn't aging well on some of the singles, but the sheer audaciousness and creativity of that record is hard to deny. It's got a little of everything. If I believed in the concept of guilty pleasures, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together would be one of them, but instead it's just a pleasure. Very fun album.
1989 has never clicked me with the way it has for others, but I've been listening to her since Fearless, so songs like Welcome to New York and Bad Blood hold very little interest for me. It's just not what I want from her. Quite a bit of that album sounds like music any pop star could have recorded, with some moments of clarity like Blank Space. Style fucking rules. It's a solid album for what it is.
Reputation is bad. There are maybe 2-3 songs I like and the rest is totally misguided. The only real flop of her career so far.
Lover is cool. I'd trim it down to 11 songs, but it was a big step in the right direction and had some of her best tunes in a while, like Cruel Summer, the title track and The Archer.
Folklore and Evermore are impressive pivots this late into her career and very well timed with everything going on in society and the music industry right now. I like that she's trying to reestablish herself as a great songwriter after Reputation sullied hers, and I think she's choosing really good collaborators. Of the two, I prefer Evermore, but there are really good songs on both (Mirrorball, August, Betty, Gold Rush, Dorothea, Evermore).
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Thanks for the tip. I don't subscribe to Disney+ because fuck them, but I was able to acquire this.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Oh yeah, I took another listen to Folklore today and I'm definitely going to be going back and forth on which of these albums I like more. My favs on this one are The 1 (might be the best of both albums), Mirrorball, August, Invisible String, Betty, Epiphany.
Evermore starts off weaker but finishes stronger, maybe.
Also, back to The 1, on paper these album-opening lyrics don't really seem like that big of a deal:
I'm doing good, I'm on some new shit
Been saying "yes" instead of "no"
I thought I saw you at the bus stop, I didn't though
I hit the ground running each night
I hit the Sunday matinée
You know the greatest films of all time were never made
But her delivery is just so perfect, so lived-in, so cool, it sucks you into the album. That last part about the greatest films is so fucking great if you told me Malkmus or Dylan or whoever wrote it, I'd believe you.
I wouldn't visit Chicago right now if you gave me $1000 plus hotel and air fare, but I definitely feel like pounding some beers with GAF and geeking out over this shit right now.
Someone call the doctor, I don't know who I am anymore and I need HELP.
Evermore starts off weaker but finishes stronger, maybe.
Also, back to The 1, on paper these album-opening lyrics don't really seem like that big of a deal:
I'm doing good, I'm on some new shit
Been saying "yes" instead of "no"
I thought I saw you at the bus stop, I didn't though
I hit the ground running each night
I hit the Sunday matinée
You know the greatest films of all time were never made
But her delivery is just so perfect, so lived-in, so cool, it sucks you into the album. That last part about the greatest films is so fucking great if you told me Malkmus or Dylan or whoever wrote it, I'd believe you.
I wouldn't visit Chicago right now if you gave me $1000 plus hotel and air fare, but I definitely feel like pounding some beers with GAF and geeking out over this shit right now.
Someone call the doctor, I don't know who I am anymore and I need HELP.
OP
OP
GirlsAloudFan
Blue Crack Addict
Ha yeah I completely agree on "You know the greatest films of all time were never made." It's one of my favorite lyrics of hers, ever.
You know one of the things I really love about that line? It's a high thought. A stoned thought. As a weed smoker, I can say with a good amount of confidence that "You know the greatest films of all time were never made" is something that would pop into the head of a person who just got freshly baked.
Moral of the story: Taylor Swift smokes weed confirmed [emoji106]
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
I really do think her lyrics were still just as good on the first few albums. They just weren't about the same levels of topics, so maybe that would make them less sophisticated?
When we're talking about country music story-telling, I think it doesn't get much better than the singles from the first album. She started so fucking strong. You switch the music out to "Should've Said No" and replace it with slightly harder music, and I think that one could've been a part of the break-up song, karaoke bar canon. That's not a bad thing.
Just looking at the lyrics to Tim McGraw, for example, like, is it "just" a love song? Sure, but I think if you compare it to not only her country music contemporaries from the time, but for her age, these just feel like some extremely poetic lyrics to me:
September saw a month of tears
And thankin' God that you weren't here
To see me like that
But in a box beneath my bed
Is a letter that you never read
From three summers back
It's hard not to find it all a little bittersweet
And lookin' back on all of that, it's nice to believe
It's what endeared me to her from the start, despite not being a fan of the genre at all at the time. I could keep going about the first album, but then, oh my God, It gets even better with Fearless and Speak Now.
When we're talking about country music story-telling, I think it doesn't get much better than the singles from the first album. She started so fucking strong. You switch the music out to "Should've Said No" and replace it with slightly harder music, and I think that one could've been a part of the break-up song, karaoke bar canon. That's not a bad thing.
Just looking at the lyrics to Tim McGraw, for example, like, is it "just" a love song? Sure, but I think if you compare it to not only her country music contemporaries from the time, but for her age, these just feel like some extremely poetic lyrics to me:
September saw a month of tears
And thankin' God that you weren't here
To see me like that
But in a box beneath my bed
Is a letter that you never read
From three summers back
It's hard not to find it all a little bittersweet
And lookin' back on all of that, it's nice to believe
It's what endeared me to her from the start, despite not being a fan of the genre at all at the time. I could keep going about the first album, but then, oh my God, It gets even better with Fearless and Speak Now.
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bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Another song from the early years that I don't think gets enough appreciate is "Mean". She really does a great wall-of-words, and I think if the song had come out 5 years later than it did, it would've been a much bigger deal:
You, with your switching sides
And your wildfire lies and your humiliation
You have pointed out my flaws again
As if I don't already see them
I walk with my head down, trying to block you out
'Cause I'll never impress you
I just wanna feel okay again
And then it got a little overshadowed that night by the premiere of "Runaway", but Taylor's Kanye West song is also pretty great, lyrically and musically:
It's alright, just wait and see
Your string of lights is still bright to me
Oh, who you are is not where you've been
You're still an innocent
It's okay, life is a tough crowd
32, and still growing up now
Who you are is not what you did
You're still an innocent
Time turns flames to embers
You'll have new Septembers
Every one of us has messed up too
Lives change like the weather
I hope you remember
Today is never too late to be brand new, oh
You, with your switching sides
And your wildfire lies and your humiliation
You have pointed out my flaws again
As if I don't already see them
I walk with my head down, trying to block you out
'Cause I'll never impress you
I just wanna feel okay again
And then it got a little overshadowed that night by the premiere of "Runaway", but Taylor's Kanye West song is also pretty great, lyrically and musically:
It's alright, just wait and see
Your string of lights is still bright to me
Oh, who you are is not where you've been
You're still an innocent
It's okay, life is a tough crowd
32, and still growing up now
Who you are is not what you did
You're still an innocent
Time turns flames to embers
You'll have new Septembers
Every one of us has messed up too
Lives change like the weather
I hope you remember
Today is never too late to be brand new, oh
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Another great line from The 1 is:
We never painted by the numbers babe
But we were making it count
Also, I have to say that as dubious as her winning her third Album of the Year Grammy by the age of 32 would be, I think she'd really deserve it this year? Considering that it was recorded and released quickly during quarantine, it's a great representative for 2020.
Certainly better than Haim, Post Malone, or Cockplay winning, that's for sure.
Looking back at TS's previous wins, it seems like the popular consensus is that 1989 should not have won over To Pimp a Butterfly. So it would be less contentious if she were up for her second now and not her third.
When Fearless won, the competition wasn't that great, to be honest. Beyonce's Sasha Fierce album was not her finest hour, and I guess Gaga's The Fame was a big deal that year but honestly I think The Fame Monster is superior. Her other competition for AOTY was Dave Matthews Band and Black Eyed Peas, so while I haven't heard Fearless yet I'm going to assume she was the best of that lineup.
Anyway, I'll be rooting for her, since Fetch The Bolt Cutters is shamefully missing from the nominees.
We never painted by the numbers babe
But we were making it count
Also, I have to say that as dubious as her winning her third Album of the Year Grammy by the age of 32 would be, I think she'd really deserve it this year? Considering that it was recorded and released quickly during quarantine, it's a great representative for 2020.
Certainly better than Haim, Post Malone, or Cockplay winning, that's for sure.
Looking back at TS's previous wins, it seems like the popular consensus is that 1989 should not have won over To Pimp a Butterfly. So it would be less contentious if she were up for her second now and not her third.
When Fearless won, the competition wasn't that great, to be honest. Beyonce's Sasha Fierce album was not her finest hour, and I guess Gaga's The Fame was a big deal that year but honestly I think The Fame Monster is superior. Her other competition for AOTY was Dave Matthews Band and Black Eyed Peas, so while I haven't heard Fearless yet I'm going to assume she was the best of that lineup.
Anyway, I'll be rooting for her, since Fetch The Bolt Cutters is shamefully missing from the nominees.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Dua Lipa's album is my favorite of the batch that I have heard, but Folklore would be a reasonable enough choice and the one I expect will be made.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
So I downloaded about 6 podcast episodes from various shows discussing Folklore/Evermore (when I go in, I’m all in), and there’s a great one from Rolling Stone where Rob Sheffield is geeking out he’s such a huge fan. Anyway they were discussing how it must have been liberating for TS to be able to make music in the way she wanted without worrying about how it might go over on what would have been her next arena/stadium tour (since cancelled like everything else).
Then host Brian Hiatt mentioned the time he was in the studio with U2 writing a story, and that they got into a argument with Brian Eno about a certain direction he was steering them in, and that the band were concerned with this very problem—how the songs would go over in a stadium.
It was clear this was from the No Line recording sessions, and my god it was just depressing to hear. We’re lucky we even got tracks like Fez, Cedars, even MOS. But the compromise was clearly driven by something that didn’t have anything to do with the music, and more with the promotion of that music.
Then host Brian Hiatt mentioned the time he was in the studio with U2 writing a story, and that they got into a argument with Brian Eno about a certain direction he was steering them in, and that the band were concerned with this very problem—how the songs would go over in a stadium.
It was clear this was from the No Line recording sessions, and my god it was just depressing to hear. We’re lucky we even got tracks like Fez, Cedars, even MOS. But the compromise was clearly driven by something that didn’t have anything to do with the music, and more with the promotion of that music.
These guys would have nixed Bad because it was too long for a live show.
"Let's record these terrible songs, because then we can play them live" is definitely a winning strategy. So much so that they abandoned even the better songs from that album in the final legs of that tour.
For a favorite band, I really, really hate U2 sometimes.
"Let's record these terrible songs, because then we can play them live" is definitely a winning strategy. So much so that they abandoned even the better songs from that album in the final legs of that tour.
For a favorite band, I really, really hate U2 sometimes.
cobl04
45:33
It’s that sort of shit that makes me want to denounce my fandom. Fucking cunts.
namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
It shouldn't be surprising though. It probably gets to the crux of the difference between pre-ATYCLB U2 and 21st century U2.
Look at ZooTV. It was an astonishing success, probably the most important, beloved, critically acclaimed tour of their career, representing their absolute peak for many. The band only broke even on that tour, because they were paying for it out of their own pockets. Afterward, they simply decided that they did not want to ever again put in the time, energy, and effort into mounting a tour of that size, scale, and length, and not see some profit from it. As such, Popmart was the first tour where they really accepted outside funding in a big way. A google search says it was a Canadian promotor by the name of Michel Cohl.
It is a given that if somebody invests a shit ton of money in your business, they want to see a return on that investment. Long story short, it seems that this guy expected Popmart to make something like $80M more than it did. This might explain why those shows in the half-empty stadiums were so upsetting to the band. Because they were losing someone else's money.
If you want to put on tours of the size and scale that U2 do, and you want to make money, you need to get outside money to pay for the thing. But if you take outside money, a large part of the endeavor becomes about making the investor(s) happy. And I think this probably drives a significant amount of the band's decision-making for the last two decades. In order for things to really change, I think they'd need to either dramatically downscale their touring, or eschew the outside money and accept breaking-even on the mega-tours.
Re: Eno and the band clashing on NLOTH, I think that's already been known. Eno was upset enough that he vocally complained, via Rolling Stone, about the band leaving Winter off the album. Perhaps it's not surprising that they haven't worked together since.
Sorry for de-railing the Swift thread.
Look at ZooTV. It was an astonishing success, probably the most important, beloved, critically acclaimed tour of their career, representing their absolute peak for many. The band only broke even on that tour, because they were paying for it out of their own pockets. Afterward, they simply decided that they did not want to ever again put in the time, energy, and effort into mounting a tour of that size, scale, and length, and not see some profit from it. As such, Popmart was the first tour where they really accepted outside funding in a big way. A google search says it was a Canadian promotor by the name of Michel Cohl.
It is a given that if somebody invests a shit ton of money in your business, they want to see a return on that investment. Long story short, it seems that this guy expected Popmart to make something like $80M more than it did. This might explain why those shows in the half-empty stadiums were so upsetting to the band. Because they were losing someone else's money.
If you want to put on tours of the size and scale that U2 do, and you want to make money, you need to get outside money to pay for the thing. But if you take outside money, a large part of the endeavor becomes about making the investor(s) happy. And I think this probably drives a significant amount of the band's decision-making for the last two decades. In order for things to really change, I think they'd need to either dramatically downscale their touring, or eschew the outside money and accept breaking-even on the mega-tours.
Re: Eno and the band clashing on NLOTH, I think that's already been known. Eno was upset enough that he vocally complained, via Rolling Stone, about the band leaving Winter off the album. Perhaps it's not surprising that they haven't worked together since.
Sorry for de-railing the Swift thread.
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cobl04
45:33
That's a good insight I hadn't thought of (though how do we know they were funding ZooTV? Bill Flanagan's book?) and explains quite a bit.
And this will be no surprise, but I'm siding with Eno. The Streets anomaly aside, he's been right every step of the way, and the very next album after NLOTH is comfortably the shittest of their career, AND they decided to make the insanely stupid decision to force it onto everyone's phones, a decision that still has implications today.
And this will be no surprise, but I'm siding with Eno. The Streets anomaly aside, he's been right every step of the way, and the very next album after NLOTH is comfortably the shittest of their career, AND they decided to make the insanely stupid decision to force it onto everyone's phones, a decision that still has implications today.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
I honestly still think Eno was RIGHT about Streets in a theoretical sense. They were spending too much time on it. Who knows, maybe it could've been BETTER.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I don't think the dispute was only about Winter, but until we hear the earlier versions of the rest of the No Net songs we're never know how much they beefed them up.
Anyway, to balance out the praise I've doled out for some choice Taylor lines (another great one, naturally, is from The 1: "In my defense I have none"), the worst line of the year has to be "I come back stronger than a 90s trend", from Willow on Evermore. Of course, it's what she has quoted on her Instagram page.
Anyway, to balance out the praise I've doled out for some choice Taylor lines (another great one, naturally, is from The 1: "In my defense I have none"), the worst line of the year has to be "I come back stronger than a 90s trend", from Willow on Evermore. Of course, it's what she has quoted on her Instagram page.
To bring this back to Taylor, I thought Fantano had a good point (basically Zola Jesus had that point - I can't find the tweet but it's in the video, she criticized Swift for "cosplaying as indie artist" when actual indie artists are really struggling" - and he echoed it to some extent):
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