shuttlecock XXIV: it's the little swings

[iron yuppie]

Unreleased and Released disc

That ought to cover everything pretty well.

 

[gump]

I thought the idea that ATYCLB is their worst album was gone after SoI/SoE?

I don’t think it’s great by any means, but certainly like it more than their last two.

 

[iron yuppie]

The last time I listened to ATYCLB I was shocked at how distracting the production/mixing is. Probably even worse than Bomb. Everything seemed to have a super tinny sound to it. Is it just me?

 

[LuckyNumber7]

ATYCLB is to U2’s catalog as a song is to an album with a story. It’s far more appreciable when you know the whole album. ATYCLB on its own... eh.

 

[lazarus]

I thought the idea that ATYCLB is their worst album was gone after SoI/SoE?

I don’t think it’s great by any means, but certainly like it more than their last two.

The last two albums have lower lows, for sure, but they have higher highs. And the same goes for the writing. Some forehead-slapping embarrassments, but the autobiographical elements are more interesting to me than the saccharine platitudes around across most of ATYCLB.

Most importantly, the last two just have more energy.

 

[the tourist]

I always thought it was generally the notion that How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb was regarded as worse than All That You Can’t Leave Behind.

 

[namkcuR]

The last time I listened to ATYCLB I was shocked at how distracting the production/mixing is. Probably even worse than Bomb. Everything seemed to have a super tinny sound to it. Is it just me?

I can kind of understand what you mean about the tinny sound, but it's never been an issue for me. But Bomb is the worst production of their career, easily.

I thought the idea that ATYCLB is their worst album was gone after SoI/SoE?

I don’t think it’s great by any means, but certainly like it more than their last two.

The last two albums have lower lows, for sure, but they have higher highs. And the same goes for the writing. Some forehead-slapping embarrassments, but the autobiographical elements are more interesting to me than the saccharine platitudes around across most of ATYCLB.

Most importantly, the last two just have more energy.

I somehow simultaneously agree and disagree with Laz. I don't really get why SOI/SOE aren't held in higher regard here in B&C. The whole second half of SOI, Little Things, Summer Of Love, Landlady, Book Of Your Heart, all some of their best work of the 21st century. There are also low points - American Soul, The Blackout(sorry, not a big fan) - but I generally appreciate those two albums, especially SOI, and it's disappointing to me that a handful of you think they're crap.

That said, I also don't share the negative opinions about ATYCLB. It's some of the warmest, most melodic, most feel-good stuff they've ever written, and it lacks the overcooked quality of Bomb/NLOTH middle 3/American Soul/etc.

And while Laz is right that Bono was using a lot of platitudes in those days, there are also some legitimately good lyrics on the album - the Stuck coda(and if the night runs over etc), all of Kite(except perhaps the last verse), "A man dreams one day to fly" etc from IALW, "When the night is someone else's/and you're trying to get some sleep/when your thoughts are too expensive/to ever want to keep" and "I'm in the waiting room/can't see for the smoke/I think of you and your holy book/while the rest of us choke" from WILATW. I also like New York a lot, though I'm probably in the minority on that.

Musically, I legitimately like every song on the album, except for maybe Peace On Earth(the chorus is good, but it takes too long to get there). Even Wild Honey, silly lyric aside, is such a feel-good melody and warm guitar sound.

I also have always consider TGBHF to be a part of it in spirit, both because it was a bonus track internationally, and because the band originally wanted it on the album(the label didn't want it because it'd already been on the radio and had a video).

I have a huge soft spot for it and get immensely nostalgic about it(I got into U2 in 98 so it was my first 'new' album).

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Yea I just can't get on board the shit on All That You Can't Leave Behind train in any way.

 

[LemonMelon]

I still return to ATYCLB on a fairly regular basis, but I can't remember the last time I listened to SOI or SOE.

Beautiful Day is one of the best pop/rock singles of the 2000s and Walk On, Kite, New York and When I Look at the World all appeal to me a lot more than their 2010s material. It's not close.

 

[gump]

I still return to ATYCLB on a fairly regular basis, but I can't remember the last time I listened to SOI or SOE.

Beautiful Day is one of the best pop/rock singles of the 2000s and Walk On, Kite, New York and When I Look at the World all appeal to me a lot more than their 2010s material. It's not close.

My feelings exactly. It isn’t great by any means compared to their previous output, but it’s a record I have no problem putting on. I can’t say the same about SOI/SOE.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I return to New York fairly regularly when I listen to the band. I've always enjoyed the atmosphere of the song.

 

[Axver]

I always thought it was generally the notion that How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb was regarded as worse than All That You Can’t Leave Behind.

Nah that's the one album from the last two decades with a decent number of songs that hold up for me. Perhaps I should say "era" rather than "album" because some of my highlights are not on the record, like Smile or Native Son.

I thought the idea that ATYCLB is their worst album was gone after SoI/SoE?

I don’t think it’s great by any means, but certainly like it more than their last two.

To be honest I can't even be bothered trying to rank ATYCLB, NLOTH, SOI, and SOE. They're all albums I don't particularly care to hear outside of one or two songs.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I return to SOI all the time. I don’t think I ever finished SOE.

I never return to ATYCLB.

I return to NLOTH sometimes.

I literally pick at Bomb like a vulture.

 

[iron yuppie]

SOE is unimpressive in the strictest sense. I listened to it once all the way through when it first came out, threw Summer of Love on a shuffle list, and never felt compelled to go back to the album again. I can't remember how any of the singles went.

 

[cobl04]

I still return to ATYCLB on a fairly regular basis, but I can't remember the last time I listened to SOI or SOE.

Beautiful Day is one of the best pop/rock singles of the 2000s and Walk On, Kite, New York and When I Look at the World all appeal to me a lot more than their 2010s material. It's not close.

Agree. Comfortably their best album since Pop for mine.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

SOE is unimpressive in the strictest sense. I listened to it once all the way through when it first came out, threw Summer of Love on a shuffle list, and never felt compelled to go back to the album again. I can't remember how any of the singles went.

I find it asinine that SOI and SOE are lumped together.

 

[lazarus]

I just listened to ATYCLB earlier this week, and as I said, it's a very pleasant listen. I don't think there's a bum track on it in terms of songwriting. But as to El Mel's comment, Beautiful Day is without a doubt my least favorite song on the album. Musically it just comes off as recycled glory days to me, and it's emblematic of the anemic production found on the rest of the album. It doesn't have the stripped down simplicity of Wild Honey or In A Little While, or the gravitas of Walk On, Stuck, Kite, or Peace on Earth, and it's not as fun as Elevation.

Come at me.

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who worshipped Pop and loves every song on there, and found ATYCLB's sonic retreat to be a giant letdown, and even a betrayal to a certain extent. So the fact that I even like the ATYCLB at all is saying something.

It's hard for me to take seriously the opinion of those who are like OMG IT WAS MY FIRST U2 ALBUM I'LL ALWAYS LOVE IT. You don't really have any objective vantage point. And if you think Eno's strategy was a good one, you've lost sight of what this band is at their best.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

SOE is unimpressive in the strictest sense. I listened to it once all the way through when it first came out, threw Summer of Love on a shuffle list, and never felt compelled to go back to the album again. I can't remember how any of the singles went.

Similar here, I listened to it in full twice after it came out. Haven't since. There are nice moments throughout but not still not compelling enough to drag me back in for further listens.

 

[namkcuR]

I just listened to ATYCLB earlier this week, and as I said, it's a very pleasant listen. I don't think there's a bum track on it in terms of songwriting. But as to El Mel's comment, Beautiful Day is without a doubt my least favorite song on the album. Musically it just comes off as recycled glory days to me, and it's emblematic of the anemic production found on the rest of the album. It doesn't have the stripped down simplicity of Wild Honey or In A Little While, or the gravitas of Walk On, Stuck, Kite, or Peace on Earth, and it's not as fun as Elevation.

Come at me.

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who worshipped Pop and loves every song on there, and found ATYCLB's sonic retreat to be a giant letdown, and even a betrayal to a certain extent. So the fact that I even like the ATYCLB at all is saying something.

It's hard for me to take seriously the opinion of those who are like OMG IT WAS MY FIRST U2 ALBUM I'LL ALWAYS LOVE IT. You don't really have any objective vantage point. And if you think Eno's strategy was a good one, you've lost sight of what this band is at their best.

I still dig Beautiful Day. Musically, what makes that song for me is the bassline. Edge isn't doing anything particularly interesting, but Adam is. It's still probably Adam's greatest moment of the last 20 years.

I don't know what you mean when you say "Eno's strategy"? What strategy are you talking about?

Calling it a "betrayal" is a bit dramatic.

And if you're referring to me with the underlined, I didn't say it was my first album, I said it was my first new album - I'd already gotten into the whole pre-2000 catalogue before ATYCLB came out. And I'm not saying I'd rank it all that highly - it's middle-of-the-pack for me - I'm just saying I have a soft spot for it.

 

[LemonMelon]

I don't think U2 fans can discuss Beautiful Day objectively anymore. It's been forced on us every gig for 20 years and has been rewritten again and again in that time frame. The song has overshadowed 21st century U2.

But man do I love that song. It has never once sounded forced or desperate to me. All the pieces lock in perfectly like great pop songs, the kind written by specialists in the field, so often do. The lyrics, curiously written in second person, reach out to the listener instead of preaching to them and convey optimism in a very grounded way.

Sure, the production is a little sugary and dated. It's not the most atmospheric or dynamic song instrumentally. But everything just works and flows naturally from one section to the other without feeling boring or static.

U2 was a better band in the Achtung Baby days, sure, but you don't keep a lid on a hit like Beautiful Day. For many people, The Cure was better as a goth rock band, but that doesn't stop Just Like Heaven from being a masterpiece. The problem comes in chasing those songs at the expense of your strengths, like U2 did.

 

[lazarus]

I don't know what you mean when you say "Eno's strategy"? What strategy are you talking about?

Eno's strategy going into this album was "more time writing, less time recording". I thought that was a widely-known thing around here. Maybe he was just being lazy and didn't want to put in all the studio time.

So you wind up with these "well-crafted" songs that were never given the time to breathe, or better yet metamorphose into something more interesting. As I said, this is not what the band does at its best but I guess the mainstream crowd digs this kind of thing.

But man do I love that song. It has never once sounded forced or desperate to me. All the pieces lock in perfectly like great pop songs, the kind written by specialists in the field, so often do. The lyrics, curiously written in second person, reach out to the listener instead of preaching to them and convey optimism in a very grounded way.

Sure, the production is a little sugary and dated. It's not the most atmospheric or dynamic song instrumentally. But everything just works and flows naturally from one section to the other without feeling boring or static.

U2 was a better band in the Achtung Baby days, sure, but you don't keep a lid on a hit like Beautiful Day. For many people, The Cure was better as a goth rock band, but that doesn't stop Just Like Heaven from being a masterpiece. The problem comes in chasing those songs at the expense of your strengths, like U2 did.

There's still too many syllables at times in the verses, so I wouldn't call it "locking in perfectly". It's an instant preview into one of Bono's worst 21st century tendencies. Read the lyrics to yourself and tell me some of those couldn't be pared down.

And. The. Reason. That. You. Had. To. Care.

Also, "someone you could lend a hand in return for grace" is a pretty awkward sentence grammatically.

I've also never understood "you love this town/even if it doesn't ring true". What the fuck does that even mean?

I can forgive the occasional concession to a pop gift delivered from above, as you pointed out with The Cure. But Beautiful Day isn't even fit to hold Friday I'm In Love's jockstrap, let alone Just Like Heaven's.

 

[cobl04]

I'm with you. I can understand people being upset they went from the transgression of Pop and Popmart to ATYCLB in three, four years. But I think people hate ATYCLB more for what it represents (the tonal and image shift that laid the template for the next 20 years, the fact that it's clearly a record they're proud of and continue to feature prominently in setlists, U2 chasing saccharine hits at the expense of their strengths, that's really well put) than what it actually is, which is, barring a couple of meh tracks, a pretty exceptional pop/rock record with a lot of heart and emotion. I still enjoy Beautiful Day the song. Is it overplayed and the first symptom of a path I wish they'd not taken? Definitely. But when I listen to the song, I'm like, damn, this is fucking genius. Great, simple instrumentation, a universal, thoughtful, uplifting lyrics, a great chorus and a terrific coda.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Eno's strategy going into this album was "more time writing, less time recording". I thought that was a widely-known thing around here. Maybe he was just being lazy and didn't want to put in all the studio time.



So you wind up with these "well-crafted" songs that were never given the time to breathe, or better yet metamorphose into something more interesting. As I said, this is not what the band does at its best but I guess the mainstream crowd digs this kind of thing.







There's still too many syllables at times in the verses, so I wouldn't call it "locking in perfectly". It's an instant preview into one of Bono's worst 21st century tendencies. Read the lyrics to yourself and tell me some of those couldn't be pared down.



And. The. Reason. That. You. Had. To. Care.



Also, "someone you could lend a hand in return for grace" is a pretty awkward sentence grammatically.



I've also never understood "you love this town/even if it doesn't ring true". What the fuck does that even mean?



I can forgive the occasional concession to a pop gift delivered from above, as you pointed out with The Cure. But Beautiful Day isn't even fit to hold Friday I'm In Love's jockstrap, let alone Just Like Heaven's.

Maybe it's just my mainstream crowd brain but golly gee I just never found pairing up the days of the week with some fairly simple rhymes to be a lyric of Shakespearean genius.

Good song, tho

 

[cobl04]

I've also never understood "you love this town/even if it doesn't ring true". What the fuck does that even mean?

You love your town, your city, your home, even if isn't perfect. That's what I've always got out of it.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You love this town
Even if it doesn't ring true
You've been all over
And it's been all over you

I immediately identified with this lyric. I read it as someone who has a love hate relationship with the place grew up. It made you who you are - for better and for worse. You're proud of it, identify with it... and wish it had been something better at the same time.

 

[gump]

I hate to try to defend ATYCLB because it really ranks really low on my list. Overall, I think it's an album that is worse in retrospect than at the time it was released, because we now know that it foretold what came after it. If it was a one-off attempt to capture some ideas that they had at the time, I think most of us would have no problem with it. As a fan of 1990s U2 who got into the band mostly during Zooropa/Pop, it's a greatly disappointing album because it marked the end of their more experimental side (within the constraints of what experimental can mean for the biggest band in the world).

But aside from its place as an inflection point in U2's musical evolution, I can't help thinking that it is an album that inadvertently managed to capture the naiveté of the late-1990s, pre-9/11 optimism. It's almost preserved in amber in that way for me. Call it nostalgia, but I think there's more to it. The crashing of the world order that started with 9/11 made U2's aging process more evident, as well as the inadequacy of Bono's lyricism to reflect the subsequent zeitgeist .

But musically? I would play ATYCLB everyday of the week before I put on SOI or SOE. It's a record that I don't mind having in the background. For all the personal appeal of SOI or SOE, I don't find them interesting in any way. Bono's lyricism does not manage to transcend his personal stories or unearth emotions that I find compelling. ATYCLB's worst moments, like Stuck or Elevation, are nowhere near as bothersome to me as those that came later. And it contains some truly great moments like Kite or When I Look at the World (Walk On's coda ranks up there for me too). I think the production serves the album well, particularly over the much maligned Side B. The drones that kick off the album create a mood that comes back in different spots, like New York or Grace. It's more cohesive than their latter efforts. It's not a terrible Saturday morning record.

On the production, given what we know now, I'm not sure that having the band "write more and record less" is a terrible idea.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The only songs on Songs of Innocence that I ever come back to on purpose are Crystal Ballroom, Invisible, The Troubles and occasionally the live cut of Raised By Wolves.

So two B sides and a live track.

And a clear preference for Mr. Brian Burton.

I think the idea that an album is better because they tried and missed the mark is silly. I also think disliking an album or an era because the success of said era made them make bad decisions later on is absurd.

The shifts in tone and experimentation of the 90s was in much a response to the critical backlash of Rattle and Hum as All That You Can't Leave Behind was a response to the reaction to Pop. They all came from the same place - a desire to remain on top. That goal of being the biggest band in the world served them well for a long, long time.

The main issue of the band over the past decade has been an inability to see that their time as a cultural force is over. It lasted longer than most, but it's don, it's never coming back, and for fucks sake stop chasing it. Be comfortable in your old skin. Don't be the old guy at the club.

Regarding style? They've been so diverse that it will be impossible to please everyone. Depending on whether you found them on the 80s, 90s or early 2000s your opinion on their sound will be vastly different.

All I ask is that they stop trying to play to another generation of young people and just be comfortable being them. It's okay to be dad rock to a bunch of young whippersnappers. You're fucking granddads. Accept it.

 

[cobl04]

Hear hear man. Well said

 

[LuckyNumber7]

If U2 wants pop they should sign up with Jack Antonoff.

Otherwise honestly I think they were with the right producer with Danger Mouse.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Abandoning Danger Mouse at the end of the recording process continues to piss me off to this day.