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Old 09-22-2020, 09:20 PM   #121
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Aquemini in the top 50, TPAB and MBDTF in the top 25, a black artist at #1, don't get the complaints
There were 13 black artists in the top 50 before. There are now 23. For fear of coming across as racist, don't you think that is a bit reactionary of a change?

I totally get being glad Aquemini moved from #500 to top #50. Totally belongs higher. But...I don't understand how a black artist at #1 is an automatic improvement, nor do I see how adding a bunch of comps into the top 50 improves the list.

There is some dumb fucking shit in this list, and honestly way too much hip hop that doesn't belong in the top 50 albums of all time, it's ridiculous.

EDIT: To clarify, the "dumb fucking shit" would be things like "Lemonade" and the Harry Styles album. I was talking about two separate things in a same paragraph and that's dangerous.
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:24 PM   #122
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And by all means, I do welcome the inclusion of more women into the list. It was extremely male-dominated before (even worse in the original 2003 list).
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:27 PM   #123
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Triple post, but looking at the top ten again from 2012, my God, I forgot how much I hated it. LMFAO @ 4 Beatles Albums and Pet Sounds comprising 5 of the 10 greatest albums of all time.
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:49 PM   #124
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There were 13 black artists in the top 50 before. There are now 23. For fear of coming across as racist, don't you think that is a bit reactionary of a change?

I totally get being glad Aquemini moved from #500 to top #50. Totally belongs higher. But...I don't understand how a black artist at #1 is an automatic improvement, nor do I see how adding a bunch of comps into the top 50 improves the list.

There is some dumb fucking shit in this list, and honestly way too much hip hop that doesn't belong in the top 50 albums of all time, it's ridiculous.

EDIT: To clarify, the "dumb fucking shit" would be things like "Lemonade" and the Harry Styles album. I was talking about two separate things in a same paragraph and that's dangerous.
I don't think it's reactionary. I think these lists have, historically, been written by white men (which is why the gender ratios have always been off as well), and I think that has meant that the standing of albums by black artists has been undervalued over time. I think we're getting closer to true balance, by including more voices, and a more diverse voting panel.

I was being a touch facetious, but I do think that having Marvin Gaye at #1 (an album I've actually not heard, eek!!) opens up new conversations about art and influence, in a way that four Beatles albums, Pet Sounds and Exile on Main St for the millionth time does not.

You're right on Harry Styles, but Lemonade I think is deserving of its place, without a doubt.
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:55 PM   #125
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My complaint is that they couldn't find room for both Harry Styles albums. What a missed opportunity.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:14 PM   #126
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There were 13 black artists in the top 50 before. There are now 23. For fear of coming across as racist, don't you think that is a bit reactionary of a change?

I totally get being glad Aquemini moved from #500 to top #50. Totally belongs higher. But...I don't understand how a black artist at #1 is an automatic improvement, nor do I see how adding a bunch of comps into the top 50 improves the list.

There is some dumb fucking shit in this list, and honestly way too much hip hop that doesn't belong in the top 50 albums of all time, it's ridiculous.

EDIT: To clarify, the "dumb fucking shit" would be things like "Lemonade" and the Harry Styles album. I was talking about two separate things in a same paragraph and that's dangerous.


It’s a bit silly to question if it’s racist. I understand where you’re coming from though.

I genuinely didn’t understand cobbler’s comments that a black artist was #1 and somehow that makes the list better. I would hope there’s general representation and diversity in genre. I do not think it is either positive or negative to have anything more than at least equal representation.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:34 PM   #127
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The list strikes me as Rolling Stone joining the trend of valuing music primarily on how thoroughly it reflects the moral zeitgeist, with the highest praise being for albums that move the moral needle in a more progressive direction. Not saying that's inherently good or bad, but it does seem to be the standard most publications are using now.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:44 PM   #128
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My complaint is that they couldn't find room for both Harry Styles albums. What a missed opportunity.
Should have been the top 501.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:44 PM   #129
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I love Marvin Gaye. I own 6 of his albums. What's Going On is great.

It is in no way, shape, or form the greatest album of all time. Not even Top 10.

I'd be less prone to argue if they put Songs in the Key of Life in that spot, or even Sign O' The Times.

But yeah, to Ashley's point, this is really reactionary.

And I don't want to sound like a tool from The Other Place, but I would think even here more people would be surprised/mad about Shuttlecock getting done dirty. It's like the list was made by whiny millennials who are still pressed about finding SOI on their iPhones.

On a more humorous note, I saw that Reasonable Doubt was in the Top 65 or whatever and thought "ok El Mel, you win this round". But then I came across The Blueprint higher on the list and took that point back. Sorry, cuz.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:46 PM   #130
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Interesting that an album full of jazz musicians and hip hop producers heavily inspired by jazz only yielded 6 jazz albums out of 500 slots and about 80 years to choose from.

But we got an Eric Church album though, so it's all good.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:42 PM   #131
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And I don't want to sound like a tool from The Other Place, but I would think even here more people would be surprised/mad about Shuttlecock getting done dirty. It's like the list was made by whiny millennials who are still pressed about finding SOI on their iPhones.
Because it doesn't matter. No one actually gives a shit, really. Some publication's list of the best albums ever really doesn't matter.
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Old 09-23-2020, 12:27 AM   #132
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It’s a bit silly to question if it’s racist. I understand where you’re coming from though.

I genuinely didn’t understand cobbler’s comments that a black artist was #1 and somehow that makes the list better. I would hope there’s general representation and diversity in genre. I do not think it is either positive or negative to have anything more than at least equal representation.
Thanks, yeah, I just didn't want to be misunderstood, to say that I didn't think black artists deserved to be on there. Probably extremely unnecessary, but it's done now.
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Old 09-23-2020, 12:28 AM   #133
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Because it doesn't matter. No one actually gives a shit, really. Some publication's list of the best albums ever really doesn't matter.
This is extremely true.
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Old 09-23-2020, 12:59 AM   #134
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Thanks, yeah, I just didn't want to be misunderstood, to say that I didn't think black artists deserved to be on there. Probably extremely unnecessary, but it's done now.
I knew what you meant, all good!
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:10 AM   #135
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I have no problem with lists like this being made more diverse - it's a needed change. There are a lot of truly great artists of color who deserve the recognition.

But here's the thing. According to this list, just for one example, Drake's "Take Care" is better than the following albums(among others):

REM - Automatic For The People
Metallica - Master Of Puppets
Led Zeppelin - LZI, LZII, Physical Graffiti
U2 - JT, AB
Pink Floyd - The Wall
Queen - A Night At The Opera
Beastie Boys - Paul's Botique
The Cure - Disintegration
Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
Lou Reed - Transformer
Television - Marquee Moon
Radiohead - In Rainbows
George Harrison - All Things Must Pass
Arcade Fire - Funeral

Full disclosure, I've never actually listened to that Drake album. Or any Drake album, because the very few Drake songs I've heard didn't make me want to listen to any more. But I can't imagine the notion of it being better than all of the above albums being one that I'd ever be on board with.

Furthermore, I feel like Tupac got shafted. If the idea is to be promoting black artists and hip-hop, why does perhaps the most legendary of all hip-hop artists get only the one album, and up at four-hundred-and-something while Kanye gets six, three in the top 150?

Speaking of Kanye, he has more albums on this list than Stevie Wonder, Prince, Zeppelin, Bruce, Bowie, Radiohead, or Floyd. Just saying.

Some other things:

I agree that compilations shouldn't have been allowed.

I found it strange that a U.S. Capitol Beatles album - "Meet The Beatles" - made the cut.

But, like others have said, who cares?
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:52 AM   #136
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It does matter in a sense because there is prestige around Rolling Stone magazine whether you like it or not. So now you have a lot of young people who will use this as a list of recommendations and consider some of these albums the canon. It just frustrates me to think of some of the albums no longer on the list that will get looked over now in favor of things like, yeah, Drake's....Take Care?
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:05 AM   #137
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Take Care is one of the most important and influential albums of the last 10 years. It's still on the Billboard charts almost 9 years later. You would be hard pressed to name more significant albums of the period and, sure enough, there are 2010s albums above Take Care. As with Beyoncé's albums, the placement is too high for a first appearance, but it should be there.

On the other hand, they really dropped the ball with some of the other recent picks. They picked the wrong Weeknd album - Beauty Behind the Madness is nowhere near as acclaimed or important as House of Balloons (or Trilogy). Where is Speak Now? Body Talk? E.MO.TION? Lonerism? The Suburbs? Hell, if you're going to throw Harry Styles' 9 month old album on there, at least find room for 24k Magic, which is one of the better throwback R&B albums in recent memory.

It's cool that a 2010s canon is being built, but there's a lot of great stuff missing from it here.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:15 AM   #138
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^ Much better explanation for how I feel.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:40 AM   #139
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It does matter in a sense because there is prestige around Rolling Stone magazine whether you like it or not. So now you have a lot of young people who will use this as a list of recommendations and consider some of these albums the canon. It just frustrates me to think of some of the albums no longer on the list that will get looked over now in favor of things like, yeah, Drake's....Take Care?
I just don't know if this is true though! The world has changed since I was a teenager and looking to get more into music, and I would think the percentage of kids turning to Rolling Stone's top 500 as a way of getting into music is fucking miniscule. And we can debate about the picks until the cows come home, but the truth of the matter is Take Care is going to appeal 100000x more to some people than Sgt Peppers or Blue or What's Going On or EMOTION, and that's how subjectivity works.

you're definitely right about the prestige, so it does 'matter', but it doesn't matter that much, yknow.

I just think it's silly to get up in arms about these sorts of lists. It's futile, and I've stopped doing it because otherwise I'll just get annoyed.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:42 AM   #140
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The list strikes me as Rolling Stone joining the trend of valuing music primarily on how thoroughly it reflects the moral zeitgeist, with the highest praise being for albums that move the moral needle in a more progressive direction. Not saying that's inherently good or bad, but it does seem to be the standard most publications are using now.
I think this is a much better, and more scientific, way of valuing music, if you're going to do things like rate the 500 best albums of all time.

Otherwise it's just based on a feeling that X album is 'better' than Y album.
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