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Old 11-13-2017, 11:49 AM   #741
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The War on Drugs has a clear ceiling because of Granduciel's vocals. Lost in the Dream is probably their peak, a terrific album that I return to often. The new one really is not bad, but as others have said, I haven't returned to it that much. I saw them play the songs live, and that was about as much as I wanted to hear.
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:54 PM   #742
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Same.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:56 PM   #743
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It’s not at the level of Slave Ambient or Lost in the Dream, but I could listen to that guy play guitar all damn day.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:58 PM   #744
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So is the band Brand New done now after pedophile allegations against the lead singer surfaced?
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:08 PM   #745
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They were already done, they just can't wrap things up gracefully now. What a mess.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:17 PM   #746
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Wait, what have I missed about Brand New?
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 11-13-2017, 10:45 PM   #747
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Sexual harassment of several minors.

It’s inevitable that a day will come when a story will come to light when a band I like is involved and that is going to be a shit day.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:15 AM   #748
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Goddamn.

I've been a casual listener of Brand New and particularly enjoy some of The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me - "Millstone" is a classic - but I've never been a more of a fan than that. I recall skipping out on a tour because I couldn't be bothered going to the southside to see them play the Palais or Prince or somewhere else in Shithole Kilda.

I've been fortunate so far, most of my favourites are still alive and haven't done anything too distasteful. There's the recent Crystal Castles situation; I love that Alice Glass now feels confident enough to denounce Ethan Kath in public. And obviously some of the black metal musicians are pretty undesirable, but even then it's not as if Burzum is my favourite black metal artist or anything. Definitely in the extreme metal community you sometimes take the music and reject the musicians.

But oh god if something comes out about, I don't know, Neil Finn or Martin Phillipps or Neige or something, I'm going to be pretty upset.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 11-14-2017, 01:26 AM   #749
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I think sometimes that it's helpful to try to separate the work from the people who make it. Yes, that applies to Woody Allen and Roman Polanski too (not that I'm legitimately very interested in eithers' films). That does not mean saying they shouldn't face justice or that they are somehow above punishment, but let the work be.

And yes, I'd say that if Bono were outed as some kind of sex predator tomorrow. Let him face reckoning, in that hypothetical, but U2's legacy of work is still what it is; tarnished no doubt by association, but that's a choice any listener can make for themselves. If it's a question of financially supporting wrongdoers, download what you want illegally or something.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:43 AM   #750
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Yep, my that's my attitude towards people I find personally distasteful but whose music is great: I download it. I've spent very, very little money on my affection for black metal. Concerts are a bigger problem, but then the more problematic black metal bands either haven't toured Australia or I don't like their music much.

I did pass on seeing Crystal Castles in May because I got such a weird vibe off Ethan Kath, and Alice Glass was no longer in the band. At that point she had only made vague statements in public, but reading between the lines it wasn't hard to figure out what she meant and Ethan had gone ahead and replaced her with a total clone, making the whole thing even dodgier somehow.

And let's be honest, U2's legacy of work has already been tarnished for many by the tax thing.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 11-14-2017, 01:48 AM   #751
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Art is art and largely exists outside of its creator (there are rare examples where fiction and reality collide to upsetting degrees and it's difficult to reconcile), but my money goes toward artists I want to support. If I don't feel an artist is worthy of my monetary support because of their actions, I just don't support them. I'm a huge fan of Polanski's work, but I wouldn't pay money to see a Polanski film at this point.

If I ever want to listen to Brand New again (not a fan anyway), I'll just download the album. I don't even want them getting my streaming revenue.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:54 AM   #752
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See, that's more or less what I was getting at. You might very well not want to give Polanski the benefit of your hard earned, but there's nothing to stop you checking a DVD of Rosemary's Baby out of the city library. Or, I dunno, picking it up for a buck at some neighbour's garage sale. Or whatever.

Same with novelists. There were a couple of high profile cases in the last decade or two of American science fiction authors who turned out to be pretty personally unpleasant characters (politically more so than for having committed any crime); but the counter could be, has been, that some books are wiser than the people who wrote them. Some art is better than the people who made it.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:01 AM   #753
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And of course it's not always to do with rape or sexual misconduct; I'm aware that some people to this day will not forget David Bowie giving a Nazi salute. It'll come up in every internet comment thread about the man. But we don't pretend his work wasn't great work. Mostly we don't pretend that.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:23 AM   #754
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I think people are more concerned about Bowie sleeping with underage groupies than they are about some ill-considered theatrics from the late 70s.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:26 AM   #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran McConville View Post
And of course it's not always to do with rape or sexual misconduct; I'm aware that some people to this day will not forget David Bowie giving a Nazi salute. It'll come up in every internet comment thread about the man. But we don't pretend his work wasn't great work. Mostly we don't pretend that.
To be honest I'm not sure I knew about this.

But the whole "how serious were Joy Division about Nazi imagery?" thing hasn't stopped me from being a big fan of their music.
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"Mediocrity is never so dangerous as when it is dressed up as sincerity." - Søren Kierkegaard

Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 11-14-2017, 03:22 AM   #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
I think people are more concerned about Bowie sleeping with underage groupies than they are about some ill-considered theatrics from the late 70s.
I think fans try to overlook that as much as possible.

Personally, I like to think he grew up in the ensuing 40 years and came to disgust his actions during that period of his life. He did not speak kindly of the Station to Station era or his nazi fascination of the time.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:48 AM   #757
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I was just getting into Brand New actually. The Devil and God Are Raging inside of Me is a really good album.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:34 AM   #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
I think people are more concerned about Bowie sleeping with underage groupies than they are about some ill-considered theatrics from the late 70s.
Both get talked about, but true, that's an often voiced concern. And probably he did grow up in the intervening decades, like we'll ever know (barring some tell all expose).
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:35 AM   #759
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I've been listening to a lot of the early Smashing Pumpkins albums recently after watching Billy Corgan on the JRE Podcast last week. I seem to always forget how good Siamese Dream is.
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:23 AM   #760
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Random Music Talk CXXI: Not this time, Crappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axver View Post
Goddamn.

I've been a casual listener of Brand New and particularly enjoy some of The Devil and God Are Raging Inside Me - "Millstone" is a classic - but I've never been a more of a fan than that. I recall skipping out on a tour because I couldn't be bothered going to the southside to see them play the Palais or Prince or somewhere else in Shithole Kilda.

I've been fortunate so far, most of my favourites are still alive and haven't done anything too distasteful. There's the recent Crystal Castles situation; I love that Alice Glass now feels confident enough to denounce Ethan Kath in public. And obviously some of the black metal musicians are pretty undesirable, but even then it's not as if Burzum is my favourite black metal artist or anything. Definitely in the extreme metal community you sometimes take the music and reject the musicians.

But oh god if something comes out about, I don't know, Neil Finn or Martin Phillipps or Neige or something, I'm going to be pretty upset.


I always wondered what metal people did with Burzum, if they separated whatshisface’s church burning, murdering, literal nazi self from the music or write it off as 100% not okay. People try to do that with Skrewdriver where they’re like “I only like the first album,” but they’re usually still called out as racist for even slightly being okay with anything that shithead ever did. I always assumed it was more because the general public hears “skinhead” and equates it with neo nazi, and those of the non nazi variety are a lot quicker to want to separate themselves from the scumbags who co-opted their subculture. That’s always the approach I’ve taken. Sure it sucks when entire 2 day festival-type show get cancelled cos someone goes and books fucking Condemned 84 again. It’s still better than being seen as sympathizing with nazis though.


I’m glad that I never liked Brand New, but several years ago Blood for Blood did not get back together after one of the guys in the band got drunk and tried to rape a 12 year old. The other guys in the band threw him out and nailed the final coffin in the band ever truly getting back together (and won’t even release the last batch of songs they’d recorded before that happened), the guy who wrote all the songs doesn’t even say his name when he’s talks about BFB in his podcast. I have no problem continuing to listen to the old albums knowing that he didn’t write the music (and if he could, Rob Lind would edit the other guy off all the old songs) and that the other guys were done with him with no if’s, ands, but’s, or chance for a wishy washy bullshit appology.
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